Does $a_{n}/a_{n-1}$ converge to the golden ratio for all Fibonacci-like sequences?
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Yesterday a friend challenged me to proof that
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}=varphi; ,$$
where $varphi$ is the golden ratio, for the Fibonacci series.
I started rewriting the limit as
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}=lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_{n-1}+a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}=lim_{nrightarrowinfty}1+frac{a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}; .$$
If the sequence $b_n=frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}$ is convergent,
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}=left(lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}right)^{-1}; .$$
Renaming the desired limit $x$, we obtain the quadratic equation
$$x=1+frac{1}{x}$$
$$x^2-x-1=0$$
if $xneq 0$. Therefore, if $b_n$ is convergent, it must be equal to $frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$ or $frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}$.
Since $a_n>0$, $b_n>0, forall n$, so the limit must be equal to $varphi=frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$.
This proof made me think that I didn't make use of the initial values of the sequence, so it must hold true for any sequence where $a_{n}=a_{n-1}+a_{n-2}$. The first question is, is $a_{n}/a_{n-1}$ convergent for all Fibonacci-like sequences?
The second and most intriguing for me is, is there any Fibonacci-like sequence where the limit is $frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}$? Since this solution is negative, $a_n$ should change its sing with each $n$, but I couldn't find any values for $a_0$ and $a_1$, which would lead me to this case. If the answer to this question is no, what mathematical sense does this negative solution have?
proof-explanation fibonacci-numbers golden-ratio
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up vote
5
down vote
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Yesterday a friend challenged me to proof that
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}=varphi; ,$$
where $varphi$ is the golden ratio, for the Fibonacci series.
I started rewriting the limit as
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}=lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_{n-1}+a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}=lim_{nrightarrowinfty}1+frac{a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}; .$$
If the sequence $b_n=frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}$ is convergent,
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}=left(lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}right)^{-1}; .$$
Renaming the desired limit $x$, we obtain the quadratic equation
$$x=1+frac{1}{x}$$
$$x^2-x-1=0$$
if $xneq 0$. Therefore, if $b_n$ is convergent, it must be equal to $frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$ or $frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}$.
Since $a_n>0$, $b_n>0, forall n$, so the limit must be equal to $varphi=frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$.
This proof made me think that I didn't make use of the initial values of the sequence, so it must hold true for any sequence where $a_{n}=a_{n-1}+a_{n-2}$. The first question is, is $a_{n}/a_{n-1}$ convergent for all Fibonacci-like sequences?
The second and most intriguing for me is, is there any Fibonacci-like sequence where the limit is $frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}$? Since this solution is negative, $a_n$ should change its sing with each $n$, but I couldn't find any values for $a_0$ and $a_1$, which would lead me to this case. If the answer to this question is no, what mathematical sense does this negative solution have?
proof-explanation fibonacci-numbers golden-ratio
Yup, interestingly enough, almost all "Fibonacci-like" sequences (in that they start with two seed values and then recursively define the successive terms by the addition of the previous two), except for certain trivial examples, have the ratio of successive terms converge to $phi$. Another noteworthy such sequence is that of the Lucas numbers (with seeds $L_1 = 2$ and $L_2 = 1$, which actually is a lot "neater" than the Fibonacci sequence in this respect.
– Eevee Trainer
13 mins ago
2
As for the notion of $phi$'s conjugate being the ratio of successive terms, no, at least ignoring trivial examples. You could analogize this in terms of "stable" and "unstable" solutions: the conjugate is unstable, where the regular one is stable. In the case of $phi$'s conjugate, unless you somehow trivially start with that conjugate as the ratio of successive terms (see Robert Z's answer), this means that successive terms eventually diverge away from it. Showing this lack of stability isn't trivial though and I'm mostly parroting other facts and don't feel qualified to elaborate on it.
– Eevee Trainer
7 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
Yesterday a friend challenged me to proof that
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}=varphi; ,$$
where $varphi$ is the golden ratio, for the Fibonacci series.
I started rewriting the limit as
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}=lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_{n-1}+a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}=lim_{nrightarrowinfty}1+frac{a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}; .$$
If the sequence $b_n=frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}$ is convergent,
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}=left(lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}right)^{-1}; .$$
Renaming the desired limit $x$, we obtain the quadratic equation
$$x=1+frac{1}{x}$$
$$x^2-x-1=0$$
if $xneq 0$. Therefore, if $b_n$ is convergent, it must be equal to $frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$ or $frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}$.
Since $a_n>0$, $b_n>0, forall n$, so the limit must be equal to $varphi=frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$.
This proof made me think that I didn't make use of the initial values of the sequence, so it must hold true for any sequence where $a_{n}=a_{n-1}+a_{n-2}$. The first question is, is $a_{n}/a_{n-1}$ convergent for all Fibonacci-like sequences?
The second and most intriguing for me is, is there any Fibonacci-like sequence where the limit is $frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}$? Since this solution is negative, $a_n$ should change its sing with each $n$, but I couldn't find any values for $a_0$ and $a_1$, which would lead me to this case. If the answer to this question is no, what mathematical sense does this negative solution have?
proof-explanation fibonacci-numbers golden-ratio
Yesterday a friend challenged me to proof that
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}=varphi; ,$$
where $varphi$ is the golden ratio, for the Fibonacci series.
I started rewriting the limit as
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}=lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_{n-1}+a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}=lim_{nrightarrowinfty}1+frac{a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}; .$$
If the sequence $b_n=frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}$ is convergent,
$$lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_{n-2}}{a_{n-1}}=left(lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}right)^{-1}; .$$
Renaming the desired limit $x$, we obtain the quadratic equation
$$x=1+frac{1}{x}$$
$$x^2-x-1=0$$
if $xneq 0$. Therefore, if $b_n$ is convergent, it must be equal to $frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$ or $frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}$.
Since $a_n>0$, $b_n>0, forall n$, so the limit must be equal to $varphi=frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$.
This proof made me think that I didn't make use of the initial values of the sequence, so it must hold true for any sequence where $a_{n}=a_{n-1}+a_{n-2}$. The first question is, is $a_{n}/a_{n-1}$ convergent for all Fibonacci-like sequences?
The second and most intriguing for me is, is there any Fibonacci-like sequence where the limit is $frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}$? Since this solution is negative, $a_n$ should change its sing with each $n$, but I couldn't find any values for $a_0$ and $a_1$, which would lead me to this case. If the answer to this question is no, what mathematical sense does this negative solution have?
proof-explanation fibonacci-numbers golden-ratio
proof-explanation fibonacci-numbers golden-ratio
asked 21 mins ago
TheAverageHijano
556
556
Yup, interestingly enough, almost all "Fibonacci-like" sequences (in that they start with two seed values and then recursively define the successive terms by the addition of the previous two), except for certain trivial examples, have the ratio of successive terms converge to $phi$. Another noteworthy such sequence is that of the Lucas numbers (with seeds $L_1 = 2$ and $L_2 = 1$, which actually is a lot "neater" than the Fibonacci sequence in this respect.
– Eevee Trainer
13 mins ago
2
As for the notion of $phi$'s conjugate being the ratio of successive terms, no, at least ignoring trivial examples. You could analogize this in terms of "stable" and "unstable" solutions: the conjugate is unstable, where the regular one is stable. In the case of $phi$'s conjugate, unless you somehow trivially start with that conjugate as the ratio of successive terms (see Robert Z's answer), this means that successive terms eventually diverge away from it. Showing this lack of stability isn't trivial though and I'm mostly parroting other facts and don't feel qualified to elaborate on it.
– Eevee Trainer
7 mins ago
add a comment |
Yup, interestingly enough, almost all "Fibonacci-like" sequences (in that they start with two seed values and then recursively define the successive terms by the addition of the previous two), except for certain trivial examples, have the ratio of successive terms converge to $phi$. Another noteworthy such sequence is that of the Lucas numbers (with seeds $L_1 = 2$ and $L_2 = 1$, which actually is a lot "neater" than the Fibonacci sequence in this respect.
– Eevee Trainer
13 mins ago
2
As for the notion of $phi$'s conjugate being the ratio of successive terms, no, at least ignoring trivial examples. You could analogize this in terms of "stable" and "unstable" solutions: the conjugate is unstable, where the regular one is stable. In the case of $phi$'s conjugate, unless you somehow trivially start with that conjugate as the ratio of successive terms (see Robert Z's answer), this means that successive terms eventually diverge away from it. Showing this lack of stability isn't trivial though and I'm mostly parroting other facts and don't feel qualified to elaborate on it.
– Eevee Trainer
7 mins ago
Yup, interestingly enough, almost all "Fibonacci-like" sequences (in that they start with two seed values and then recursively define the successive terms by the addition of the previous two), except for certain trivial examples, have the ratio of successive terms converge to $phi$. Another noteworthy such sequence is that of the Lucas numbers (with seeds $L_1 = 2$ and $L_2 = 1$, which actually is a lot "neater" than the Fibonacci sequence in this respect.
– Eevee Trainer
13 mins ago
Yup, interestingly enough, almost all "Fibonacci-like" sequences (in that they start with two seed values and then recursively define the successive terms by the addition of the previous two), except for certain trivial examples, have the ratio of successive terms converge to $phi$. Another noteworthy such sequence is that of the Lucas numbers (with seeds $L_1 = 2$ and $L_2 = 1$, which actually is a lot "neater" than the Fibonacci sequence in this respect.
– Eevee Trainer
13 mins ago
2
2
As for the notion of $phi$'s conjugate being the ratio of successive terms, no, at least ignoring trivial examples. You could analogize this in terms of "stable" and "unstable" solutions: the conjugate is unstable, where the regular one is stable. In the case of $phi$'s conjugate, unless you somehow trivially start with that conjugate as the ratio of successive terms (see Robert Z's answer), this means that successive terms eventually diverge away from it. Showing this lack of stability isn't trivial though and I'm mostly parroting other facts and don't feel qualified to elaborate on it.
– Eevee Trainer
7 mins ago
As for the notion of $phi$'s conjugate being the ratio of successive terms, no, at least ignoring trivial examples. You could analogize this in terms of "stable" and "unstable" solutions: the conjugate is unstable, where the regular one is stable. In the case of $phi$'s conjugate, unless you somehow trivially start with that conjugate as the ratio of successive terms (see Robert Z's answer), this means that successive terms eventually diverge away from it. Showing this lack of stability isn't trivial though and I'm mostly parroting other facts and don't feel qualified to elaborate on it.
– Eevee Trainer
7 mins ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
You showed that if a limit exists for $a_{n}/a_{n-1}$ and $a_n>0$, then it is $frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$. Actually if $(a_n)_{ngeq 0}$ is any sequence which satisfies the recurrence $a_n=a_{n-1} + a_{n-2}$ then there exist $A$ and $B$ such that
$$a_n=Acdot left(frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}right)^n+Bcdot left(frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}right)^n$$
where $A$ and $B$ depend on the initial terms $a_0$ and $a_1$.
So what is $lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}$ in the general case?
Consider for example the case when $A=0$ and $Bnot=0$. What is the limit?
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Yes, $a_nover a_{n-1}$ is convergent for any Fibonacci-esque sequence, and this happen to be the golden ratio, varphi .
The limit $1-sqrt{5}over 2$ will never occur for a Fibonacci-esque sequence.
The negative solution crops up because you multiply both sides by $x$ when you solve $x=1+frac{1}{x}$ leading to an extra solution. But this value is useful for calculating the value of the $n^{th}$ term of the Fibonacci sequence.
$$ F_n=varphi^n - (frac{-1}{varphi^n})over sqrt{5}$$
Hope this helps.
New contributor
AryanSonwatikar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
You showed that if a limit exists for $a_{n}/a_{n-1}$ and $a_n>0$, then it is $frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$. Actually if $(a_n)_{ngeq 0}$ is any sequence which satisfies the recurrence $a_n=a_{n-1} + a_{n-2}$ then there exist $A$ and $B$ such that
$$a_n=Acdot left(frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}right)^n+Bcdot left(frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}right)^n$$
where $A$ and $B$ depend on the initial terms $a_0$ and $a_1$.
So what is $lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}$ in the general case?
Consider for example the case when $A=0$ and $Bnot=0$. What is the limit?
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
You showed that if a limit exists for $a_{n}/a_{n-1}$ and $a_n>0$, then it is $frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$. Actually if $(a_n)_{ngeq 0}$ is any sequence which satisfies the recurrence $a_n=a_{n-1} + a_{n-2}$ then there exist $A$ and $B$ such that
$$a_n=Acdot left(frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}right)^n+Bcdot left(frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}right)^n$$
where $A$ and $B$ depend on the initial terms $a_0$ and $a_1$.
So what is $lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}$ in the general case?
Consider for example the case when $A=0$ and $Bnot=0$. What is the limit?
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
You showed that if a limit exists for $a_{n}/a_{n-1}$ and $a_n>0$, then it is $frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$. Actually if $(a_n)_{ngeq 0}$ is any sequence which satisfies the recurrence $a_n=a_{n-1} + a_{n-2}$ then there exist $A$ and $B$ such that
$$a_n=Acdot left(frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}right)^n+Bcdot left(frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}right)^n$$
where $A$ and $B$ depend on the initial terms $a_0$ and $a_1$.
So what is $lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}$ in the general case?
Consider for example the case when $A=0$ and $Bnot=0$. What is the limit?
You showed that if a limit exists for $a_{n}/a_{n-1}$ and $a_n>0$, then it is $frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}$. Actually if $(a_n)_{ngeq 0}$ is any sequence which satisfies the recurrence $a_n=a_{n-1} + a_{n-2}$ then there exist $A$ and $B$ such that
$$a_n=Acdot left(frac{1+sqrt{5}}{2}right)^n+Bcdot left(frac{1-sqrt{5}}{2}right)^n$$
where $A$ and $B$ depend on the initial terms $a_0$ and $a_1$.
So what is $lim_{nrightarrowinfty}frac{a_n}{a_{n-1}}$ in the general case?
Consider for example the case when $A=0$ and $Bnot=0$. What is the limit?
edited 8 mins ago
answered 14 mins ago
Robert Z
89.4k1056128
89.4k1056128
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Yes, $a_nover a_{n-1}$ is convergent for any Fibonacci-esque sequence, and this happen to be the golden ratio, varphi .
The limit $1-sqrt{5}over 2$ will never occur for a Fibonacci-esque sequence.
The negative solution crops up because you multiply both sides by $x$ when you solve $x=1+frac{1}{x}$ leading to an extra solution. But this value is useful for calculating the value of the $n^{th}$ term of the Fibonacci sequence.
$$ F_n=varphi^n - (frac{-1}{varphi^n})over sqrt{5}$$
Hope this helps.
New contributor
AryanSonwatikar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Yes, $a_nover a_{n-1}$ is convergent for any Fibonacci-esque sequence, and this happen to be the golden ratio, varphi .
The limit $1-sqrt{5}over 2$ will never occur for a Fibonacci-esque sequence.
The negative solution crops up because you multiply both sides by $x$ when you solve $x=1+frac{1}{x}$ leading to an extra solution. But this value is useful for calculating the value of the $n^{th}$ term of the Fibonacci sequence.
$$ F_n=varphi^n - (frac{-1}{varphi^n})over sqrt{5}$$
Hope this helps.
New contributor
AryanSonwatikar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Yes, $a_nover a_{n-1}$ is convergent for any Fibonacci-esque sequence, and this happen to be the golden ratio, varphi .
The limit $1-sqrt{5}over 2$ will never occur for a Fibonacci-esque sequence.
The negative solution crops up because you multiply both sides by $x$ when you solve $x=1+frac{1}{x}$ leading to an extra solution. But this value is useful for calculating the value of the $n^{th}$ term of the Fibonacci sequence.
$$ F_n=varphi^n - (frac{-1}{varphi^n})over sqrt{5}$$
Hope this helps.
New contributor
AryanSonwatikar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Yes, $a_nover a_{n-1}$ is convergent for any Fibonacci-esque sequence, and this happen to be the golden ratio, varphi .
The limit $1-sqrt{5}over 2$ will never occur for a Fibonacci-esque sequence.
The negative solution crops up because you multiply both sides by $x$ when you solve $x=1+frac{1}{x}$ leading to an extra solution. But this value is useful for calculating the value of the $n^{th}$ term of the Fibonacci sequence.
$$ F_n=varphi^n - (frac{-1}{varphi^n})over sqrt{5}$$
Hope this helps.
New contributor
AryanSonwatikar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
AryanSonwatikar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 15 secs ago
AryanSonwatikar
114
114
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AryanSonwatikar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor
AryanSonwatikar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
AryanSonwatikar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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Yup, interestingly enough, almost all "Fibonacci-like" sequences (in that they start with two seed values and then recursively define the successive terms by the addition of the previous two), except for certain trivial examples, have the ratio of successive terms converge to $phi$. Another noteworthy such sequence is that of the Lucas numbers (with seeds $L_1 = 2$ and $L_2 = 1$, which actually is a lot "neater" than the Fibonacci sequence in this respect.
– Eevee Trainer
13 mins ago
2
As for the notion of $phi$'s conjugate being the ratio of successive terms, no, at least ignoring trivial examples. You could analogize this in terms of "stable" and "unstable" solutions: the conjugate is unstable, where the regular one is stable. In the case of $phi$'s conjugate, unless you somehow trivially start with that conjugate as the ratio of successive terms (see Robert Z's answer), this means that successive terms eventually diverge away from it. Showing this lack of stability isn't trivial though and I'm mostly parroting other facts and don't feel qualified to elaborate on it.
– Eevee Trainer
7 mins ago