Proof verification for $lim inf x_n + lim sup y_n le lim sup(x_n + y_n)$ for bounded $x_n, y_n$












2












$begingroup$



Let ${x_n}$ and ${y_n}$ denote two bounded sequences. Prove that:
$$
lim inf x_n + lim sup y_n le lim sup(x_n + y_n) \
$$




We know that both $x_n$ and $y_n$ are bounded hence is their sum:
$$
m le x_n + y_n < M
$$



Using that fact we may choose a subsequence in order to satisfy the following:
$$
lim(x_{n_k} + y_{n_k}) = limsup(x_n + y_n) tag1
$$



Since $x_{n_k}$ is bounded (as far as $x_n$ is) lets choose a convergent subsequence with indices $n^prime_k ge n_k$ such that:
$$
exists lim x_{n^prime_k}
$$



Now consider a sequence $y_{n^prime_k}$ (note the index is $n^prime_k$), since it is bounded we may choose a convergent subsequence from $y_{n^prime_k}$ with indices $n^{primeprime}_k ge n^prime_k$ such that:
$$
existslim y_{n^{primeprime}_k}
$$



Since ${x_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ is a subsequence of ${x_{n^prime_k}}$ it is convergent to the same limit. Also ${y_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ is a subsequence of ${y_{n^prime_k}}$ and we've chosen ${y_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ to be convergent. Based on that and on $(1)$ we may write:
$$
lim(x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + y_{n^{primeprime}_k}) = lim(x_{n_k} + y_{n_k}) = limsup (x_n + y_n) tag 2
$$



By definition of limsup and liminf:
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n \
lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} le limsup y_n
$$



Or (multiply second inequality by $-1$):
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n \
-lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge -limsup y_n
$$



Subtract the inequalities:
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n + limsup y_n tag3
$$



Limit of sum is just a sum of limits so:
$$
lim(x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + y_{n^{primeprime}_k}) =lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k}
$$



So now using $(2)$ and $(3)$ we conclude that:
$$
lim sup(x_n + y_n) ge liminf x_n + limsup y_n
$$



Is this argument enough to consider the proof complete?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You did not arrive at Equation 3 correctly. Subtracting inequalities is not possible to get that because the direction of inequality for one of them changes. So you just get the sum of the two inequalities before you multiplied the second by -1.
    $endgroup$
    – James Yang
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:12
















2












$begingroup$



Let ${x_n}$ and ${y_n}$ denote two bounded sequences. Prove that:
$$
lim inf x_n + lim sup y_n le lim sup(x_n + y_n) \
$$




We know that both $x_n$ and $y_n$ are bounded hence is their sum:
$$
m le x_n + y_n < M
$$



Using that fact we may choose a subsequence in order to satisfy the following:
$$
lim(x_{n_k} + y_{n_k}) = limsup(x_n + y_n) tag1
$$



Since $x_{n_k}$ is bounded (as far as $x_n$ is) lets choose a convergent subsequence with indices $n^prime_k ge n_k$ such that:
$$
exists lim x_{n^prime_k}
$$



Now consider a sequence $y_{n^prime_k}$ (note the index is $n^prime_k$), since it is bounded we may choose a convergent subsequence from $y_{n^prime_k}$ with indices $n^{primeprime}_k ge n^prime_k$ such that:
$$
existslim y_{n^{primeprime}_k}
$$



Since ${x_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ is a subsequence of ${x_{n^prime_k}}$ it is convergent to the same limit. Also ${y_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ is a subsequence of ${y_{n^prime_k}}$ and we've chosen ${y_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ to be convergent. Based on that and on $(1)$ we may write:
$$
lim(x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + y_{n^{primeprime}_k}) = lim(x_{n_k} + y_{n_k}) = limsup (x_n + y_n) tag 2
$$



By definition of limsup and liminf:
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n \
lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} le limsup y_n
$$



Or (multiply second inequality by $-1$):
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n \
-lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge -limsup y_n
$$



Subtract the inequalities:
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n + limsup y_n tag3
$$



Limit of sum is just a sum of limits so:
$$
lim(x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + y_{n^{primeprime}_k}) =lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k}
$$



So now using $(2)$ and $(3)$ we conclude that:
$$
lim sup(x_n + y_n) ge liminf x_n + limsup y_n
$$



Is this argument enough to consider the proof complete?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You did not arrive at Equation 3 correctly. Subtracting inequalities is not possible to get that because the direction of inequality for one of them changes. So you just get the sum of the two inequalities before you multiplied the second by -1.
    $endgroup$
    – James Yang
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:12














2












2








2


1



$begingroup$



Let ${x_n}$ and ${y_n}$ denote two bounded sequences. Prove that:
$$
lim inf x_n + lim sup y_n le lim sup(x_n + y_n) \
$$




We know that both $x_n$ and $y_n$ are bounded hence is their sum:
$$
m le x_n + y_n < M
$$



Using that fact we may choose a subsequence in order to satisfy the following:
$$
lim(x_{n_k} + y_{n_k}) = limsup(x_n + y_n) tag1
$$



Since $x_{n_k}$ is bounded (as far as $x_n$ is) lets choose a convergent subsequence with indices $n^prime_k ge n_k$ such that:
$$
exists lim x_{n^prime_k}
$$



Now consider a sequence $y_{n^prime_k}$ (note the index is $n^prime_k$), since it is bounded we may choose a convergent subsequence from $y_{n^prime_k}$ with indices $n^{primeprime}_k ge n^prime_k$ such that:
$$
existslim y_{n^{primeprime}_k}
$$



Since ${x_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ is a subsequence of ${x_{n^prime_k}}$ it is convergent to the same limit. Also ${y_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ is a subsequence of ${y_{n^prime_k}}$ and we've chosen ${y_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ to be convergent. Based on that and on $(1)$ we may write:
$$
lim(x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + y_{n^{primeprime}_k}) = lim(x_{n_k} + y_{n_k}) = limsup (x_n + y_n) tag 2
$$



By definition of limsup and liminf:
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n \
lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} le limsup y_n
$$



Or (multiply second inequality by $-1$):
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n \
-lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge -limsup y_n
$$



Subtract the inequalities:
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n + limsup y_n tag3
$$



Limit of sum is just a sum of limits so:
$$
lim(x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + y_{n^{primeprime}_k}) =lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k}
$$



So now using $(2)$ and $(3)$ we conclude that:
$$
lim sup(x_n + y_n) ge liminf x_n + limsup y_n
$$



Is this argument enough to consider the proof complete?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$





Let ${x_n}$ and ${y_n}$ denote two bounded sequences. Prove that:
$$
lim inf x_n + lim sup y_n le lim sup(x_n + y_n) \
$$




We know that both $x_n$ and $y_n$ are bounded hence is their sum:
$$
m le x_n + y_n < M
$$



Using that fact we may choose a subsequence in order to satisfy the following:
$$
lim(x_{n_k} + y_{n_k}) = limsup(x_n + y_n) tag1
$$



Since $x_{n_k}$ is bounded (as far as $x_n$ is) lets choose a convergent subsequence with indices $n^prime_k ge n_k$ such that:
$$
exists lim x_{n^prime_k}
$$



Now consider a sequence $y_{n^prime_k}$ (note the index is $n^prime_k$), since it is bounded we may choose a convergent subsequence from $y_{n^prime_k}$ with indices $n^{primeprime}_k ge n^prime_k$ such that:
$$
existslim y_{n^{primeprime}_k}
$$



Since ${x_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ is a subsequence of ${x_{n^prime_k}}$ it is convergent to the same limit. Also ${y_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ is a subsequence of ${y_{n^prime_k}}$ and we've chosen ${y_{n^{primeprime}_k}}$ to be convergent. Based on that and on $(1)$ we may write:
$$
lim(x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + y_{n^{primeprime}_k}) = lim(x_{n_k} + y_{n_k}) = limsup (x_n + y_n) tag 2
$$



By definition of limsup and liminf:
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n \
lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} le limsup y_n
$$



Or (multiply second inequality by $-1$):
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n \
-lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge -limsup y_n
$$



Subtract the inequalities:
$$
lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k} ge liminf x_n + limsup y_n tag3
$$



Limit of sum is just a sum of limits so:
$$
lim(x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + y_{n^{primeprime}_k}) =lim x_{n^{primeprime}_k} + lim y_{n^{primeprime}_k}
$$



So now using $(2)$ and $(3)$ we conclude that:
$$
lim sup(x_n + y_n) ge liminf x_n + limsup y_n
$$



Is this argument enough to consider the proof complete?







calculus sequences-and-series limits proof-verification limsup-and-liminf






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Dec 14 '18 at 16:06







roman

















asked Dec 14 '18 at 15:50









romanroman

2,31121224




2,31121224








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You did not arrive at Equation 3 correctly. Subtracting inequalities is not possible to get that because the direction of inequality for one of them changes. So you just get the sum of the two inequalities before you multiplied the second by -1.
    $endgroup$
    – James Yang
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:12














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You did not arrive at Equation 3 correctly. Subtracting inequalities is not possible to get that because the direction of inequality for one of them changes. So you just get the sum of the two inequalities before you multiplied the second by -1.
    $endgroup$
    – James Yang
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:12








1




1




$begingroup$
You did not arrive at Equation 3 correctly. Subtracting inequalities is not possible to get that because the direction of inequality for one of them changes. So you just get the sum of the two inequalities before you multiplied the second by -1.
$endgroup$
– James Yang
Dec 14 '18 at 16:12




$begingroup$
You did not arrive at Equation 3 correctly. Subtracting inequalities is not possible to get that because the direction of inequality for one of them changes. So you just get the sum of the two inequalities before you multiplied the second by -1.
$endgroup$
– James Yang
Dec 14 '18 at 16:12










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

The inequality you make after "Subtract the inequalities" needs subtraction instead of addition. If you can find another way to create that inequality, then you are fine.



However, there is a quicker way to answer the problem. By definition of infimum, we have that $displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k leq x_j$ for all $j geq n$. Then we can add $y_j$ to both sides to obtain $$displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k + y_j leq x_j + y_j.$$



Taking the supremum of both sides leads us to
$$displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k + sup_{j geq n} y_j leq sup_{j geq n} (x_j + y_j). $$
Lastly, taking the limit as $n to infty$ yields the result.



Notice that, in the solution, we never used the fact that the sequences are bounded. Thus, this result is actually stronger and can be proved for any real sequences (provided that none of the sums become $infty - infty$).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The boundedness assumption is somewhat necessary. We might get $-infty + infty$ on the LHS. So long as both sides are well-defined, the theorem can be generalized.
    $endgroup$
    – James Yang
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:34












  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for pointing that out. My answer has been edited to reflect this
    $endgroup$
    – Trevor Arrigoni
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:16











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3039528%2fproof-verification-for-lim-inf-x-n-lim-sup-y-n-le-lim-supx-n-y-n%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









1












$begingroup$

The inequality you make after "Subtract the inequalities" needs subtraction instead of addition. If you can find another way to create that inequality, then you are fine.



However, there is a quicker way to answer the problem. By definition of infimum, we have that $displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k leq x_j$ for all $j geq n$. Then we can add $y_j$ to both sides to obtain $$displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k + y_j leq x_j + y_j.$$



Taking the supremum of both sides leads us to
$$displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k + sup_{j geq n} y_j leq sup_{j geq n} (x_j + y_j). $$
Lastly, taking the limit as $n to infty$ yields the result.



Notice that, in the solution, we never used the fact that the sequences are bounded. Thus, this result is actually stronger and can be proved for any real sequences (provided that none of the sums become $infty - infty$).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The boundedness assumption is somewhat necessary. We might get $-infty + infty$ on the LHS. So long as both sides are well-defined, the theorem can be generalized.
    $endgroup$
    – James Yang
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:34












  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for pointing that out. My answer has been edited to reflect this
    $endgroup$
    – Trevor Arrigoni
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:16
















1












$begingroup$

The inequality you make after "Subtract the inequalities" needs subtraction instead of addition. If you can find another way to create that inequality, then you are fine.



However, there is a quicker way to answer the problem. By definition of infimum, we have that $displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k leq x_j$ for all $j geq n$. Then we can add $y_j$ to both sides to obtain $$displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k + y_j leq x_j + y_j.$$



Taking the supremum of both sides leads us to
$$displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k + sup_{j geq n} y_j leq sup_{j geq n} (x_j + y_j). $$
Lastly, taking the limit as $n to infty$ yields the result.



Notice that, in the solution, we never used the fact that the sequences are bounded. Thus, this result is actually stronger and can be proved for any real sequences (provided that none of the sums become $infty - infty$).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The boundedness assumption is somewhat necessary. We might get $-infty + infty$ on the LHS. So long as both sides are well-defined, the theorem can be generalized.
    $endgroup$
    – James Yang
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:34












  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for pointing that out. My answer has been edited to reflect this
    $endgroup$
    – Trevor Arrigoni
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:16














1












1








1





$begingroup$

The inequality you make after "Subtract the inequalities" needs subtraction instead of addition. If you can find another way to create that inequality, then you are fine.



However, there is a quicker way to answer the problem. By definition of infimum, we have that $displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k leq x_j$ for all $j geq n$. Then we can add $y_j$ to both sides to obtain $$displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k + y_j leq x_j + y_j.$$



Taking the supremum of both sides leads us to
$$displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k + sup_{j geq n} y_j leq sup_{j geq n} (x_j + y_j). $$
Lastly, taking the limit as $n to infty$ yields the result.



Notice that, in the solution, we never used the fact that the sequences are bounded. Thus, this result is actually stronger and can be proved for any real sequences (provided that none of the sums become $infty - infty$).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



The inequality you make after "Subtract the inequalities" needs subtraction instead of addition. If you can find another way to create that inequality, then you are fine.



However, there is a quicker way to answer the problem. By definition of infimum, we have that $displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k leq x_j$ for all $j geq n$. Then we can add $y_j$ to both sides to obtain $$displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k + y_j leq x_j + y_j.$$



Taking the supremum of both sides leads us to
$$displaystyleinf_{kgeq n} x_k + sup_{j geq n} y_j leq sup_{j geq n} (x_j + y_j). $$
Lastly, taking the limit as $n to infty$ yields the result.



Notice that, in the solution, we never used the fact that the sequences are bounded. Thus, this result is actually stronger and can be proved for any real sequences (provided that none of the sums become $infty - infty$).







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Dec 14 '18 at 17:15

























answered Dec 14 '18 at 16:18









Trevor ArrigoniTrevor Arrigoni

264




264








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The boundedness assumption is somewhat necessary. We might get $-infty + infty$ on the LHS. So long as both sides are well-defined, the theorem can be generalized.
    $endgroup$
    – James Yang
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:34












  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for pointing that out. My answer has been edited to reflect this
    $endgroup$
    – Trevor Arrigoni
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:16














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The boundedness assumption is somewhat necessary. We might get $-infty + infty$ on the LHS. So long as both sides are well-defined, the theorem can be generalized.
    $endgroup$
    – James Yang
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:34












  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for pointing that out. My answer has been edited to reflect this
    $endgroup$
    – Trevor Arrigoni
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:16








1




1




$begingroup$
The boundedness assumption is somewhat necessary. We might get $-infty + infty$ on the LHS. So long as both sides are well-defined, the theorem can be generalized.
$endgroup$
– James Yang
Dec 14 '18 at 16:34






$begingroup$
The boundedness assumption is somewhat necessary. We might get $-infty + infty$ on the LHS. So long as both sides are well-defined, the theorem can be generalized.
$endgroup$
– James Yang
Dec 14 '18 at 16:34














$begingroup$
Thank you for pointing that out. My answer has been edited to reflect this
$endgroup$
– Trevor Arrigoni
Dec 14 '18 at 17:16




$begingroup$
Thank you for pointing that out. My answer has been edited to reflect this
$endgroup$
– Trevor Arrigoni
Dec 14 '18 at 17:16


















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3039528%2fproof-verification-for-lim-inf-x-n-lim-sup-y-n-le-lim-supx-n-y-n%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Willebadessen

Ida-Boy-Ed-Garten

Residenzschloss Arolsen