Strategies for finding $[mathbb{Q} (sqrt{2} + sqrt{3}) : mathbb{Q} ]$











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I need to find the degree of the extension $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2} + sqrt{3})$ over $mathbb{Q}$. I don't quite know how to do it, nor can I exhibit any polynomial with root $sqrt{2} + sqrt{3}$, but I think it has to have at least degree $4$. I tried to work with $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2} + sqrt{3})$ as a subspace of $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}, sqrt{3})$ over $mathbb{Q}$, but I also don't know if that is the case.










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  • $x^4-10x^2+1$ is the smallest monic polynomial that has $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ as a root
    – Seth
    Nov 22 at 2:57

















up vote
4
down vote

favorite












I need to find the degree of the extension $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2} + sqrt{3})$ over $mathbb{Q}$. I don't quite know how to do it, nor can I exhibit any polynomial with root $sqrt{2} + sqrt{3}$, but I think it has to have at least degree $4$. I tried to work with $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2} + sqrt{3})$ as a subspace of $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}, sqrt{3})$ over $mathbb{Q}$, but I also don't know if that is the case.










share|cite|improve this question






















  • $x^4-10x^2+1$ is the smallest monic polynomial that has $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ as a root
    – Seth
    Nov 22 at 2:57















up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











I need to find the degree of the extension $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2} + sqrt{3})$ over $mathbb{Q}$. I don't quite know how to do it, nor can I exhibit any polynomial with root $sqrt{2} + sqrt{3}$, but I think it has to have at least degree $4$. I tried to work with $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2} + sqrt{3})$ as a subspace of $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}, sqrt{3})$ over $mathbb{Q}$, but I also don't know if that is the case.










share|cite|improve this question













I need to find the degree of the extension $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2} + sqrt{3})$ over $mathbb{Q}$. I don't quite know how to do it, nor can I exhibit any polynomial with root $sqrt{2} + sqrt{3}$, but I think it has to have at least degree $4$. I tried to work with $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2} + sqrt{3})$ as a subspace of $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}, sqrt{3})$ over $mathbb{Q}$, but I also don't know if that is the case.







field-theory extension-field irreducible-polynomials






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asked Nov 22 at 2:43









Nuntractatuses Amável

57212




57212












  • $x^4-10x^2+1$ is the smallest monic polynomial that has $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ as a root
    – Seth
    Nov 22 at 2:57




















  • $x^4-10x^2+1$ is the smallest monic polynomial that has $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ as a root
    – Seth
    Nov 22 at 2:57


















$x^4-10x^2+1$ is the smallest monic polynomial that has $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ as a root
– Seth
Nov 22 at 2:57






$x^4-10x^2+1$ is the smallest monic polynomial that has $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ as a root
– Seth
Nov 22 at 2:57












4 Answers
4






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up vote
2
down vote



accepted










As you say, if $alpha=sqrt2+sqrt3$ then $alphainBbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$.
It follows that $Bbb Q(alpha)subseteqBbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$. Can we show
equality? The field $Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$ is spanned over $Bbb Q$ by
$1$, $sqrt2$, $sqrt3$ and $sqrt2sqrt3=sqrt6$.
We have
$$alpha^2=5+2sqrt6$$
and
$$alpha^3=11sqrt2+9sqrt3.$$
Therefore $sqrt6=frac12(alpha^2-5)$, $sqrt2=frac12(alpha^3-9alpha)$
and $sqrt3=-frac12(alpha^3-11alpha)$
are all elements of $Bbb Q(alpha)$. Therefore $Bbb Q(alpha)=Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$.



To show that $|Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3):Bbb Q|=4$, we need $sqrt3notin
Bbb Q(sqrt2)$
. To prove this, assume $sqrt3=a+bsqrt2$ with $a$, $bin
Bbb Q$
and get a contradiction from $(a+bsqrt2)^2=3$.






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    up vote
    3
    down vote













    $frac1{sqrt2+sqrt3}=frac1{sqrt2+sqrt3}cdot frac{sqrt2-sqrt3}{sqrt2 -sqrt3}=sqrt3-sqrt2$.



    Hence we get $sqrt2 $ and $sqrt3$, and so $mathbb Q(sqrt2 +sqrt3) =mathbb Q(sqrt2, sqrt3)$.






    share|cite|improve this answer




























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Hint
      begin{align*}
      x &= sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}\
      x - sqrt{2}&=sqrt{3}\
      (x - sqrt{2})^2&=3\
      x^2-1&=2xsqrt{2}\
      (x^2-1)^2&=8x^2\
      x^4-10x^2+1&=0.
      end{align*}






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • second last line should be $(x^2-1)^2=8x^2$
        – Seth
        Nov 22 at 2:59










      • @Seth Thanks. I have fixed the typo.
        – Anurag A
        Nov 22 at 3:01




















      up vote
      0
      down vote













      Let $w=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Note that $w^2=2sqrt{6}+5$. Then $frac{(w^2-5)^2}{4}=6$ is in $mathbb{Q}$. So the polynomial $f(X)=X^4-10X^2-1$ has $w$ as one of its roots. You can factorize $f$ linearly with the substitution $Y=X^2$. So you can get the minimal polynomial of $w$ from $f$.






      share|cite|improve this answer





















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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes








        up vote
        2
        down vote



        accepted










        As you say, if $alpha=sqrt2+sqrt3$ then $alphainBbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$.
        It follows that $Bbb Q(alpha)subseteqBbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$. Can we show
        equality? The field $Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$ is spanned over $Bbb Q$ by
        $1$, $sqrt2$, $sqrt3$ and $sqrt2sqrt3=sqrt6$.
        We have
        $$alpha^2=5+2sqrt6$$
        and
        $$alpha^3=11sqrt2+9sqrt3.$$
        Therefore $sqrt6=frac12(alpha^2-5)$, $sqrt2=frac12(alpha^3-9alpha)$
        and $sqrt3=-frac12(alpha^3-11alpha)$
        are all elements of $Bbb Q(alpha)$. Therefore $Bbb Q(alpha)=Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$.



        To show that $|Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3):Bbb Q|=4$, we need $sqrt3notin
        Bbb Q(sqrt2)$
        . To prove this, assume $sqrt3=a+bsqrt2$ with $a$, $bin
        Bbb Q$
        and get a contradiction from $(a+bsqrt2)^2=3$.






        share|cite|improve this answer

























          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted










          As you say, if $alpha=sqrt2+sqrt3$ then $alphainBbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$.
          It follows that $Bbb Q(alpha)subseteqBbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$. Can we show
          equality? The field $Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$ is spanned over $Bbb Q$ by
          $1$, $sqrt2$, $sqrt3$ and $sqrt2sqrt3=sqrt6$.
          We have
          $$alpha^2=5+2sqrt6$$
          and
          $$alpha^3=11sqrt2+9sqrt3.$$
          Therefore $sqrt6=frac12(alpha^2-5)$, $sqrt2=frac12(alpha^3-9alpha)$
          and $sqrt3=-frac12(alpha^3-11alpha)$
          are all elements of $Bbb Q(alpha)$. Therefore $Bbb Q(alpha)=Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$.



          To show that $|Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3):Bbb Q|=4$, we need $sqrt3notin
          Bbb Q(sqrt2)$
          . To prove this, assume $sqrt3=a+bsqrt2$ with $a$, $bin
          Bbb Q$
          and get a contradiction from $(a+bsqrt2)^2=3$.






          share|cite|improve this answer























            up vote
            2
            down vote



            accepted







            up vote
            2
            down vote



            accepted






            As you say, if $alpha=sqrt2+sqrt3$ then $alphainBbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$.
            It follows that $Bbb Q(alpha)subseteqBbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$. Can we show
            equality? The field $Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$ is spanned over $Bbb Q$ by
            $1$, $sqrt2$, $sqrt3$ and $sqrt2sqrt3=sqrt6$.
            We have
            $$alpha^2=5+2sqrt6$$
            and
            $$alpha^3=11sqrt2+9sqrt3.$$
            Therefore $sqrt6=frac12(alpha^2-5)$, $sqrt2=frac12(alpha^3-9alpha)$
            and $sqrt3=-frac12(alpha^3-11alpha)$
            are all elements of $Bbb Q(alpha)$. Therefore $Bbb Q(alpha)=Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$.



            To show that $|Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3):Bbb Q|=4$, we need $sqrt3notin
            Bbb Q(sqrt2)$
            . To prove this, assume $sqrt3=a+bsqrt2$ with $a$, $bin
            Bbb Q$
            and get a contradiction from $(a+bsqrt2)^2=3$.






            share|cite|improve this answer












            As you say, if $alpha=sqrt2+sqrt3$ then $alphainBbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$.
            It follows that $Bbb Q(alpha)subseteqBbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$. Can we show
            equality? The field $Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$ is spanned over $Bbb Q$ by
            $1$, $sqrt2$, $sqrt3$ and $sqrt2sqrt3=sqrt6$.
            We have
            $$alpha^2=5+2sqrt6$$
            and
            $$alpha^3=11sqrt2+9sqrt3.$$
            Therefore $sqrt6=frac12(alpha^2-5)$, $sqrt2=frac12(alpha^3-9alpha)$
            and $sqrt3=-frac12(alpha^3-11alpha)$
            are all elements of $Bbb Q(alpha)$. Therefore $Bbb Q(alpha)=Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3)$.



            To show that $|Bbb Q(sqrt2,sqrt3):Bbb Q|=4$, we need $sqrt3notin
            Bbb Q(sqrt2)$
            . To prove this, assume $sqrt3=a+bsqrt2$ with $a$, $bin
            Bbb Q$
            and get a contradiction from $(a+bsqrt2)^2=3$.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Nov 22 at 2:59









            Lord Shark the Unknown

            98.8k958131




            98.8k958131






















                up vote
                3
                down vote













                $frac1{sqrt2+sqrt3}=frac1{sqrt2+sqrt3}cdot frac{sqrt2-sqrt3}{sqrt2 -sqrt3}=sqrt3-sqrt2$.



                Hence we get $sqrt2 $ and $sqrt3$, and so $mathbb Q(sqrt2 +sqrt3) =mathbb Q(sqrt2, sqrt3)$.






                share|cite|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote













                  $frac1{sqrt2+sqrt3}=frac1{sqrt2+sqrt3}cdot frac{sqrt2-sqrt3}{sqrt2 -sqrt3}=sqrt3-sqrt2$.



                  Hence we get $sqrt2 $ and $sqrt3$, and so $mathbb Q(sqrt2 +sqrt3) =mathbb Q(sqrt2, sqrt3)$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer























                    up vote
                    3
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    3
                    down vote









                    $frac1{sqrt2+sqrt3}=frac1{sqrt2+sqrt3}cdot frac{sqrt2-sqrt3}{sqrt2 -sqrt3}=sqrt3-sqrt2$.



                    Hence we get $sqrt2 $ and $sqrt3$, and so $mathbb Q(sqrt2 +sqrt3) =mathbb Q(sqrt2, sqrt3)$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    $frac1{sqrt2+sqrt3}=frac1{sqrt2+sqrt3}cdot frac{sqrt2-sqrt3}{sqrt2 -sqrt3}=sqrt3-sqrt2$.



                    Hence we get $sqrt2 $ and $sqrt3$, and so $mathbb Q(sqrt2 +sqrt3) =mathbb Q(sqrt2, sqrt3)$.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Nov 22 at 2:58









                    Chris Custer

                    9,8293624




                    9,8293624






















                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote













                        Hint
                        begin{align*}
                        x &= sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}\
                        x - sqrt{2}&=sqrt{3}\
                        (x - sqrt{2})^2&=3\
                        x^2-1&=2xsqrt{2}\
                        (x^2-1)^2&=8x^2\
                        x^4-10x^2+1&=0.
                        end{align*}






                        share|cite|improve this answer























                        • second last line should be $(x^2-1)^2=8x^2$
                          – Seth
                          Nov 22 at 2:59










                        • @Seth Thanks. I have fixed the typo.
                          – Anurag A
                          Nov 22 at 3:01

















                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote













                        Hint
                        begin{align*}
                        x &= sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}\
                        x - sqrt{2}&=sqrt{3}\
                        (x - sqrt{2})^2&=3\
                        x^2-1&=2xsqrt{2}\
                        (x^2-1)^2&=8x^2\
                        x^4-10x^2+1&=0.
                        end{align*}






                        share|cite|improve this answer























                        • second last line should be $(x^2-1)^2=8x^2$
                          – Seth
                          Nov 22 at 2:59










                        • @Seth Thanks. I have fixed the typo.
                          – Anurag A
                          Nov 22 at 3:01















                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote










                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote









                        Hint
                        begin{align*}
                        x &= sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}\
                        x - sqrt{2}&=sqrt{3}\
                        (x - sqrt{2})^2&=3\
                        x^2-1&=2xsqrt{2}\
                        (x^2-1)^2&=8x^2\
                        x^4-10x^2+1&=0.
                        end{align*}






                        share|cite|improve this answer














                        Hint
                        begin{align*}
                        x &= sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}\
                        x - sqrt{2}&=sqrt{3}\
                        (x - sqrt{2})^2&=3\
                        x^2-1&=2xsqrt{2}\
                        (x^2-1)^2&=8x^2\
                        x^4-10x^2+1&=0.
                        end{align*}







                        share|cite|improve this answer














                        share|cite|improve this answer



                        share|cite|improve this answer








                        edited Nov 22 at 3:00

























                        answered Nov 22 at 2:56









                        Anurag A

                        25.3k12250




                        25.3k12250












                        • second last line should be $(x^2-1)^2=8x^2$
                          – Seth
                          Nov 22 at 2:59










                        • @Seth Thanks. I have fixed the typo.
                          – Anurag A
                          Nov 22 at 3:01




















                        • second last line should be $(x^2-1)^2=8x^2$
                          – Seth
                          Nov 22 at 2:59










                        • @Seth Thanks. I have fixed the typo.
                          – Anurag A
                          Nov 22 at 3:01


















                        second last line should be $(x^2-1)^2=8x^2$
                        – Seth
                        Nov 22 at 2:59




                        second last line should be $(x^2-1)^2=8x^2$
                        – Seth
                        Nov 22 at 2:59












                        @Seth Thanks. I have fixed the typo.
                        – Anurag A
                        Nov 22 at 3:01






                        @Seth Thanks. I have fixed the typo.
                        – Anurag A
                        Nov 22 at 3:01












                        up vote
                        0
                        down vote













                        Let $w=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Note that $w^2=2sqrt{6}+5$. Then $frac{(w^2-5)^2}{4}=6$ is in $mathbb{Q}$. So the polynomial $f(X)=X^4-10X^2-1$ has $w$ as one of its roots. You can factorize $f$ linearly with the substitution $Y=X^2$. So you can get the minimal polynomial of $w$ from $f$.






                        share|cite|improve this answer

























                          up vote
                          0
                          down vote













                          Let $w=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Note that $w^2=2sqrt{6}+5$. Then $frac{(w^2-5)^2}{4}=6$ is in $mathbb{Q}$. So the polynomial $f(X)=X^4-10X^2-1$ has $w$ as one of its roots. You can factorize $f$ linearly with the substitution $Y=X^2$. So you can get the minimal polynomial of $w$ from $f$.






                          share|cite|improve this answer























                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote









                            Let $w=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Note that $w^2=2sqrt{6}+5$. Then $frac{(w^2-5)^2}{4}=6$ is in $mathbb{Q}$. So the polynomial $f(X)=X^4-10X^2-1$ has $w$ as one of its roots. You can factorize $f$ linearly with the substitution $Y=X^2$. So you can get the minimal polynomial of $w$ from $f$.






                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            Let $w=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Note that $w^2=2sqrt{6}+5$. Then $frac{(w^2-5)^2}{4}=6$ is in $mathbb{Q}$. So the polynomial $f(X)=X^4-10X^2-1$ has $w$ as one of its roots. You can factorize $f$ linearly with the substitution $Y=X^2$. So you can get the minimal polynomial of $w$ from $f$.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered Nov 22 at 3:00









                            Dante Grevino

                            7817




                            7817






























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