Picking up a random element of $mathcal P(mathbb R)$: existence of probability measure?












1












$begingroup$


Given a set $X$, consider the sample space $Omega = mathcal P (X)$ and the $sigma$-algebra of events $mathcal F = mathcal P(Omega)$, where $mathcal P$ identifies the power set. For each $x in X$, define the event
begin{equation}
E(x) = {omega in Omega : x in omega} .
end{equation}

Then define $mathbb P: mathcal F to [0,1]$ the probability measure on $ mathcal F$ with the following properties:




  1. for every $x in X$ the event $E(x)$ has probability $1/2$, therefore
    begin{equation}
    mathbb P(E(x)) = frac{1}{2} quad forall x in X ;
    end{equation}


  2. all the events $E(x)$ are mutually stochastically independent, that is
    begin{equation}
    mathbb P (E(x_1) cap E(x_2)) = mathbb P (E(x_1)) mathbb P (E(x_2)) quad forall x_1, x_2 in X .
    end{equation}



If $X$ has a finite cardinality, it should be possible to prove that $mathbb P$ exists and is unique. However, what happens if $X$ has infinite cardinality? In particular:




  • Does $mathbb P$ exist? If the answer is no, is it possible to prove it?

  • If $mathbb P$ exists, is it also unique? If the answer is negative, can you find counter-examples?

  • In case that existence and uniqueness are valid for any generic set $X$, let be $X = mathbb R$, or more generally a Lebesgue-measurable set of $mathbb R$. If $mathbb P$ exists and is unique also in this case, it is possible to calculate
    begin{equation}
    mathbb P ({omega in Omega : text {$omega$ is Lebesgue-measurable}}) quad ?
    end{equation}



Is it correct associating this measure to the (impossible) act of "picking up a random element of $mathcal P(X)$" also for $X subseteq mathbb R$?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$

















    1












    $begingroup$


    Given a set $X$, consider the sample space $Omega = mathcal P (X)$ and the $sigma$-algebra of events $mathcal F = mathcal P(Omega)$, where $mathcal P$ identifies the power set. For each $x in X$, define the event
    begin{equation}
    E(x) = {omega in Omega : x in omega} .
    end{equation}

    Then define $mathbb P: mathcal F to [0,1]$ the probability measure on $ mathcal F$ with the following properties:




    1. for every $x in X$ the event $E(x)$ has probability $1/2$, therefore
      begin{equation}
      mathbb P(E(x)) = frac{1}{2} quad forall x in X ;
      end{equation}


    2. all the events $E(x)$ are mutually stochastically independent, that is
      begin{equation}
      mathbb P (E(x_1) cap E(x_2)) = mathbb P (E(x_1)) mathbb P (E(x_2)) quad forall x_1, x_2 in X .
      end{equation}



    If $X$ has a finite cardinality, it should be possible to prove that $mathbb P$ exists and is unique. However, what happens if $X$ has infinite cardinality? In particular:




    • Does $mathbb P$ exist? If the answer is no, is it possible to prove it?

    • If $mathbb P$ exists, is it also unique? If the answer is negative, can you find counter-examples?

    • In case that existence and uniqueness are valid for any generic set $X$, let be $X = mathbb R$, or more generally a Lebesgue-measurable set of $mathbb R$. If $mathbb P$ exists and is unique also in this case, it is possible to calculate
      begin{equation}
      mathbb P ({omega in Omega : text {$omega$ is Lebesgue-measurable}}) quad ?
      end{equation}



    Is it correct associating this measure to the (impossible) act of "picking up a random element of $mathcal P(X)$" also for $X subseteq mathbb R$?










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$















      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      Given a set $X$, consider the sample space $Omega = mathcal P (X)$ and the $sigma$-algebra of events $mathcal F = mathcal P(Omega)$, where $mathcal P$ identifies the power set. For each $x in X$, define the event
      begin{equation}
      E(x) = {omega in Omega : x in omega} .
      end{equation}

      Then define $mathbb P: mathcal F to [0,1]$ the probability measure on $ mathcal F$ with the following properties:




      1. for every $x in X$ the event $E(x)$ has probability $1/2$, therefore
        begin{equation}
        mathbb P(E(x)) = frac{1}{2} quad forall x in X ;
        end{equation}


      2. all the events $E(x)$ are mutually stochastically independent, that is
        begin{equation}
        mathbb P (E(x_1) cap E(x_2)) = mathbb P (E(x_1)) mathbb P (E(x_2)) quad forall x_1, x_2 in X .
        end{equation}



      If $X$ has a finite cardinality, it should be possible to prove that $mathbb P$ exists and is unique. However, what happens if $X$ has infinite cardinality? In particular:




      • Does $mathbb P$ exist? If the answer is no, is it possible to prove it?

      • If $mathbb P$ exists, is it also unique? If the answer is negative, can you find counter-examples?

      • In case that existence and uniqueness are valid for any generic set $X$, let be $X = mathbb R$, or more generally a Lebesgue-measurable set of $mathbb R$. If $mathbb P$ exists and is unique also in this case, it is possible to calculate
        begin{equation}
        mathbb P ({omega in Omega : text {$omega$ is Lebesgue-measurable}}) quad ?
        end{equation}



      Is it correct associating this measure to the (impossible) act of "picking up a random element of $mathcal P(X)$" also for $X subseteq mathbb R$?










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      Given a set $X$, consider the sample space $Omega = mathcal P (X)$ and the $sigma$-algebra of events $mathcal F = mathcal P(Omega)$, where $mathcal P$ identifies the power set. For each $x in X$, define the event
      begin{equation}
      E(x) = {omega in Omega : x in omega} .
      end{equation}

      Then define $mathbb P: mathcal F to [0,1]$ the probability measure on $ mathcal F$ with the following properties:




      1. for every $x in X$ the event $E(x)$ has probability $1/2$, therefore
        begin{equation}
        mathbb P(E(x)) = frac{1}{2} quad forall x in X ;
        end{equation}


      2. all the events $E(x)$ are mutually stochastically independent, that is
        begin{equation}
        mathbb P (E(x_1) cap E(x_2)) = mathbb P (E(x_1)) mathbb P (E(x_2)) quad forall x_1, x_2 in X .
        end{equation}



      If $X$ has a finite cardinality, it should be possible to prove that $mathbb P$ exists and is unique. However, what happens if $X$ has infinite cardinality? In particular:




      • Does $mathbb P$ exist? If the answer is no, is it possible to prove it?

      • If $mathbb P$ exists, is it also unique? If the answer is negative, can you find counter-examples?

      • In case that existence and uniqueness are valid for any generic set $X$, let be $X = mathbb R$, or more generally a Lebesgue-measurable set of $mathbb R$. If $mathbb P$ exists and is unique also in this case, it is possible to calculate
        begin{equation}
        mathbb P ({omega in Omega : text {$omega$ is Lebesgue-measurable}}) quad ?
        end{equation}



      Is it correct associating this measure to the (impossible) act of "picking up a random element of $mathcal P(X)$" also for $X subseteq mathbb R$?







      probability-theory measure-theory






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      asked Dec 3 '18 at 23:20









      Mattia MorgaviMattia Morgavi

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          $begingroup$

          $mathbb{P}$ does not exist when $mathcal{F} = mathcal{P}(Omega)$. I will sketch some of the details, but also see this MO question and the Fremlin & Talagrand paper linked there for more details.



          It's useful to identify elements of $Omega$ with elements of ${0,1}^X$. Then, if $mathcal{F}$ is the product sigma-field on ${0,1}^X$, $mathbb{P}$, defined in your way on the $E(x)$, extends to a unique probability measure on $mathcal{F}$ in the usual way.



          The reason that we cannot extend $mathbb{P}$ further to $mathcal{P}(Omega)$ is that the set $L={omega in Omega: omega text{is Lebesgue measurable}}$ is not measurable in the product sigma-field. (In fact, this set is maximally non-measurable in the sense that it has inner measure $0$ and outer measure $1$.) Intuitively, this is because sets in the product sigma-field have the property that they can be determined by sampling countably many points. But the Lebesgue-measurable sets do not have this property: you can add or remove countably many points from a Lebesgue-(non)measurable subset and preserve (non)measurability. (See Will Sawin's answer at the linked MO post for a more formal statement of these facts.)



          If we allow $mathbb{P}$ to be a finitely additive probability measure, then $mathbb{P}$ extends to all of $mathcal{P}(Omega)$ quite easily (by the Hahn-Banach theorem, for instance). This is the situation treated in the Fremlin & Talagrand paper.






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            $begingroup$

            $mathbb{P}$ does not exist when $mathcal{F} = mathcal{P}(Omega)$. I will sketch some of the details, but also see this MO question and the Fremlin & Talagrand paper linked there for more details.



            It's useful to identify elements of $Omega$ with elements of ${0,1}^X$. Then, if $mathcal{F}$ is the product sigma-field on ${0,1}^X$, $mathbb{P}$, defined in your way on the $E(x)$, extends to a unique probability measure on $mathcal{F}$ in the usual way.



            The reason that we cannot extend $mathbb{P}$ further to $mathcal{P}(Omega)$ is that the set $L={omega in Omega: omega text{is Lebesgue measurable}}$ is not measurable in the product sigma-field. (In fact, this set is maximally non-measurable in the sense that it has inner measure $0$ and outer measure $1$.) Intuitively, this is because sets in the product sigma-field have the property that they can be determined by sampling countably many points. But the Lebesgue-measurable sets do not have this property: you can add or remove countably many points from a Lebesgue-(non)measurable subset and preserve (non)measurability. (See Will Sawin's answer at the linked MO post for a more formal statement of these facts.)



            If we allow $mathbb{P}$ to be a finitely additive probability measure, then $mathbb{P}$ extends to all of $mathcal{P}(Omega)$ quite easily (by the Hahn-Banach theorem, for instance). This is the situation treated in the Fremlin & Talagrand paper.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$


















              0












              $begingroup$

              $mathbb{P}$ does not exist when $mathcal{F} = mathcal{P}(Omega)$. I will sketch some of the details, but also see this MO question and the Fremlin & Talagrand paper linked there for more details.



              It's useful to identify elements of $Omega$ with elements of ${0,1}^X$. Then, if $mathcal{F}$ is the product sigma-field on ${0,1}^X$, $mathbb{P}$, defined in your way on the $E(x)$, extends to a unique probability measure on $mathcal{F}$ in the usual way.



              The reason that we cannot extend $mathbb{P}$ further to $mathcal{P}(Omega)$ is that the set $L={omega in Omega: omega text{is Lebesgue measurable}}$ is not measurable in the product sigma-field. (In fact, this set is maximally non-measurable in the sense that it has inner measure $0$ and outer measure $1$.) Intuitively, this is because sets in the product sigma-field have the property that they can be determined by sampling countably many points. But the Lebesgue-measurable sets do not have this property: you can add or remove countably many points from a Lebesgue-(non)measurable subset and preserve (non)measurability. (See Will Sawin's answer at the linked MO post for a more formal statement of these facts.)



              If we allow $mathbb{P}$ to be a finitely additive probability measure, then $mathbb{P}$ extends to all of $mathcal{P}(Omega)$ quite easily (by the Hahn-Banach theorem, for instance). This is the situation treated in the Fremlin & Talagrand paper.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$
















                0












                0








                0





                $begingroup$

                $mathbb{P}$ does not exist when $mathcal{F} = mathcal{P}(Omega)$. I will sketch some of the details, but also see this MO question and the Fremlin & Talagrand paper linked there for more details.



                It's useful to identify elements of $Omega$ with elements of ${0,1}^X$. Then, if $mathcal{F}$ is the product sigma-field on ${0,1}^X$, $mathbb{P}$, defined in your way on the $E(x)$, extends to a unique probability measure on $mathcal{F}$ in the usual way.



                The reason that we cannot extend $mathbb{P}$ further to $mathcal{P}(Omega)$ is that the set $L={omega in Omega: omega text{is Lebesgue measurable}}$ is not measurable in the product sigma-field. (In fact, this set is maximally non-measurable in the sense that it has inner measure $0$ and outer measure $1$.) Intuitively, this is because sets in the product sigma-field have the property that they can be determined by sampling countably many points. But the Lebesgue-measurable sets do not have this property: you can add or remove countably many points from a Lebesgue-(non)measurable subset and preserve (non)measurability. (See Will Sawin's answer at the linked MO post for a more formal statement of these facts.)



                If we allow $mathbb{P}$ to be a finitely additive probability measure, then $mathbb{P}$ extends to all of $mathcal{P}(Omega)$ quite easily (by the Hahn-Banach theorem, for instance). This is the situation treated in the Fremlin & Talagrand paper.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                $mathbb{P}$ does not exist when $mathcal{F} = mathcal{P}(Omega)$. I will sketch some of the details, but also see this MO question and the Fremlin & Talagrand paper linked there for more details.



                It's useful to identify elements of $Omega$ with elements of ${0,1}^X$. Then, if $mathcal{F}$ is the product sigma-field on ${0,1}^X$, $mathbb{P}$, defined in your way on the $E(x)$, extends to a unique probability measure on $mathcal{F}$ in the usual way.



                The reason that we cannot extend $mathbb{P}$ further to $mathcal{P}(Omega)$ is that the set $L={omega in Omega: omega text{is Lebesgue measurable}}$ is not measurable in the product sigma-field. (In fact, this set is maximally non-measurable in the sense that it has inner measure $0$ and outer measure $1$.) Intuitively, this is because sets in the product sigma-field have the property that they can be determined by sampling countably many points. But the Lebesgue-measurable sets do not have this property: you can add or remove countably many points from a Lebesgue-(non)measurable subset and preserve (non)measurability. (See Will Sawin's answer at the linked MO post for a more formal statement of these facts.)



                If we allow $mathbb{P}$ to be a finitely additive probability measure, then $mathbb{P}$ extends to all of $mathcal{P}(Omega)$ quite easily (by the Hahn-Banach theorem, for instance). This is the situation treated in the Fremlin & Talagrand paper.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Dec 4 '18 at 14:20









                aduhaduh

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