If $degleft(fright) = minleft(left{d in mathbb{N}^times;; fvert X^{q^d} - Xright}right),$, then $f$ is...











up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1












Let for some prime power $q$ $mathbb{F}_q$ be a finite field and consider $f in mathbb{F}_qleft[Xright]$.

I want to show the implication mentioned in the title, i.e.
$$
degleft(,fright) =
minleft(left{d in mathbb{N}^times;; f,vert, X^{q^d} - Xright}right) implies f ;textit{is irreducible}
$$



I could really use some help proving this.

If you want to see my current approach (which I couldn't yet turn into a proof), read on.



I already know that for $d in mathbb{N}^times$, $P_d:=X^{q^d} - X$ is the squarefree product of all irreducible polynomials $r in mathbb{F}_q[X]$ such that $degleft(rright),mid,d$.

Another fact that might be useful is that if $r$ is an irreducible factor of $P_d$, then $degleft(rright) ,mid, d$.



My current proof idea is as follows:

Assume that $degleft(fright)$ has the minimality property mentioned above and that $f$ is not irreducible. We hence have, for $2 leq m in mathbb{N}^times$ and prime factors $f_i in mathbb{F}_qleft[Xright]$
$$
f = prod_{i=1}^m f_i
$$



I'm not sure if this helps, but on a side note, all the $f_i$ are coprime ($f$ is squarefree, since $P_d$ is).



Anyways, consider $mu:=text{lcm}left(left{degleft(f_iright);; 1 leq i leq mright}right)$.

Using one of the facts mentioned above, note that for all $i$, since $f_i$ is an irreducible factor of $f$ which divides $P_d$, we have $degleft(f_iright),mid,degleft(fright)$. By definition of $mu$, this implies $mu ,mid, degleft(fright)$.

It thus would suffice to show that $mu lt degleft(fright)$ to arrive at a contradiction to the minimality property of $degleft(fright)$.



Can somebody help me out here?



UPDATE: The answer here leads me to believe my approach might be wrong. Not sure though, just found this.










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 1




    The other question you linked to is different from yours because it has the extra assumption that $d$ is prime.
    – Eric Wofsey
    Nov 20 at 23:48










  • Oh, good point. Only quickly scanned the answer and thought this was something to be concluded.
    – polynomial_donut
    Nov 21 at 15:02















up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1












Let for some prime power $q$ $mathbb{F}_q$ be a finite field and consider $f in mathbb{F}_qleft[Xright]$.

I want to show the implication mentioned in the title, i.e.
$$
degleft(,fright) =
minleft(left{d in mathbb{N}^times;; f,vert, X^{q^d} - Xright}right) implies f ;textit{is irreducible}
$$



I could really use some help proving this.

If you want to see my current approach (which I couldn't yet turn into a proof), read on.



I already know that for $d in mathbb{N}^times$, $P_d:=X^{q^d} - X$ is the squarefree product of all irreducible polynomials $r in mathbb{F}_q[X]$ such that $degleft(rright),mid,d$.

Another fact that might be useful is that if $r$ is an irreducible factor of $P_d$, then $degleft(rright) ,mid, d$.



My current proof idea is as follows:

Assume that $degleft(fright)$ has the minimality property mentioned above and that $f$ is not irreducible. We hence have, for $2 leq m in mathbb{N}^times$ and prime factors $f_i in mathbb{F}_qleft[Xright]$
$$
f = prod_{i=1}^m f_i
$$



I'm not sure if this helps, but on a side note, all the $f_i$ are coprime ($f$ is squarefree, since $P_d$ is).



Anyways, consider $mu:=text{lcm}left(left{degleft(f_iright);; 1 leq i leq mright}right)$.

Using one of the facts mentioned above, note that for all $i$, since $f_i$ is an irreducible factor of $f$ which divides $P_d$, we have $degleft(f_iright),mid,degleft(fright)$. By definition of $mu$, this implies $mu ,mid, degleft(fright)$.

It thus would suffice to show that $mu lt degleft(fright)$ to arrive at a contradiction to the minimality property of $degleft(fright)$.



Can somebody help me out here?



UPDATE: The answer here leads me to believe my approach might be wrong. Not sure though, just found this.










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 1




    The other question you linked to is different from yours because it has the extra assumption that $d$ is prime.
    – Eric Wofsey
    Nov 20 at 23:48










  • Oh, good point. Only quickly scanned the answer and thought this was something to be concluded.
    – polynomial_donut
    Nov 21 at 15:02













up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1






1





Let for some prime power $q$ $mathbb{F}_q$ be a finite field and consider $f in mathbb{F}_qleft[Xright]$.

I want to show the implication mentioned in the title, i.e.
$$
degleft(,fright) =
minleft(left{d in mathbb{N}^times;; f,vert, X^{q^d} - Xright}right) implies f ;textit{is irreducible}
$$



I could really use some help proving this.

If you want to see my current approach (which I couldn't yet turn into a proof), read on.



I already know that for $d in mathbb{N}^times$, $P_d:=X^{q^d} - X$ is the squarefree product of all irreducible polynomials $r in mathbb{F}_q[X]$ such that $degleft(rright),mid,d$.

Another fact that might be useful is that if $r$ is an irreducible factor of $P_d$, then $degleft(rright) ,mid, d$.



My current proof idea is as follows:

Assume that $degleft(fright)$ has the minimality property mentioned above and that $f$ is not irreducible. We hence have, for $2 leq m in mathbb{N}^times$ and prime factors $f_i in mathbb{F}_qleft[Xright]$
$$
f = prod_{i=1}^m f_i
$$



I'm not sure if this helps, but on a side note, all the $f_i$ are coprime ($f$ is squarefree, since $P_d$ is).



Anyways, consider $mu:=text{lcm}left(left{degleft(f_iright);; 1 leq i leq mright}right)$.

Using one of the facts mentioned above, note that for all $i$, since $f_i$ is an irreducible factor of $f$ which divides $P_d$, we have $degleft(f_iright),mid,degleft(fright)$. By definition of $mu$, this implies $mu ,mid, degleft(fright)$.

It thus would suffice to show that $mu lt degleft(fright)$ to arrive at a contradiction to the minimality property of $degleft(fright)$.



Can somebody help me out here?



UPDATE: The answer here leads me to believe my approach might be wrong. Not sure though, just found this.










share|cite|improve this question















Let for some prime power $q$ $mathbb{F}_q$ be a finite field and consider $f in mathbb{F}_qleft[Xright]$.

I want to show the implication mentioned in the title, i.e.
$$
degleft(,fright) =
minleft(left{d in mathbb{N}^times;; f,vert, X^{q^d} - Xright}right) implies f ;textit{is irreducible}
$$



I could really use some help proving this.

If you want to see my current approach (which I couldn't yet turn into a proof), read on.



I already know that for $d in mathbb{N}^times$, $P_d:=X^{q^d} - X$ is the squarefree product of all irreducible polynomials $r in mathbb{F}_q[X]$ such that $degleft(rright),mid,d$.

Another fact that might be useful is that if $r$ is an irreducible factor of $P_d$, then $degleft(rright) ,mid, d$.



My current proof idea is as follows:

Assume that $degleft(fright)$ has the minimality property mentioned above and that $f$ is not irreducible. We hence have, for $2 leq m in mathbb{N}^times$ and prime factors $f_i in mathbb{F}_qleft[Xright]$
$$
f = prod_{i=1}^m f_i
$$



I'm not sure if this helps, but on a side note, all the $f_i$ are coprime ($f$ is squarefree, since $P_d$ is).



Anyways, consider $mu:=text{lcm}left(left{degleft(f_iright);; 1 leq i leq mright}right)$.

Using one of the facts mentioned above, note that for all $i$, since $f_i$ is an irreducible factor of $f$ which divides $P_d$, we have $degleft(f_iright),mid,degleft(fright)$. By definition of $mu$, this implies $mu ,mid, degleft(fright)$.

It thus would suffice to show that $mu lt degleft(fright)$ to arrive at a contradiction to the minimality property of $degleft(fright)$.



Can somebody help me out here?



UPDATE: The answer here leads me to believe my approach might be wrong. Not sure though, just found this.







abstract-algebra polynomials finite-fields irreducible-polynomials






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 21 at 1:29









Batominovski

32.1k23190




32.1k23190










asked Nov 20 at 17:28









polynomial_donut

592216




592216








  • 1




    The other question you linked to is different from yours because it has the extra assumption that $d$ is prime.
    – Eric Wofsey
    Nov 20 at 23:48










  • Oh, good point. Only quickly scanned the answer and thought this was something to be concluded.
    – polynomial_donut
    Nov 21 at 15:02














  • 1




    The other question you linked to is different from yours because it has the extra assumption that $d$ is prime.
    – Eric Wofsey
    Nov 20 at 23:48










  • Oh, good point. Only quickly scanned the answer and thought this was something to be concluded.
    – polynomial_donut
    Nov 21 at 15:02








1




1




The other question you linked to is different from yours because it has the extra assumption that $d$ is prime.
– Eric Wofsey
Nov 20 at 23:48




The other question you linked to is different from yours because it has the extra assumption that $d$ is prime.
– Eric Wofsey
Nov 20 at 23:48












Oh, good point. Only quickly scanned the answer and thought this was something to be concluded.
– polynomial_donut
Nov 21 at 15:02




Oh, good point. Only quickly scanned the answer and thought this was something to be concluded.
– polynomial_donut
Nov 21 at 15:02










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
3
down vote



accepted










This is false. For instance, if $q=2$ and $f(x)=x(x^2+x+1)(x^3+x+1)$ then $f$ is not irreducible but the smallest $d>0$ such that $f$ divides $x^{2^d}-x$ is $6$, the degree of $f$. Indeed, the irreducible factors of $f$ have degree $1,2,$ and $3$, and so $f$ divides $x^{2^d}-x$ iff $d$ is divisible by $1,2,$ and $3$. The least such $d$ is $6$.



In general, by the same reasoning, if $f$ is squarefree then the least such $d$ will be the least common multiple of the degrees of the irreducible factors of $f$.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Thank you. This now led me to another question, maybe you're interested...
    – polynomial_donut
    Nov 21 at 14:48











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3006621%2fif-deg-leftf-right-min-left-left-d-in-mathbbn-times-f-vert-xq%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
3
down vote



accepted










This is false. For instance, if $q=2$ and $f(x)=x(x^2+x+1)(x^3+x+1)$ then $f$ is not irreducible but the smallest $d>0$ such that $f$ divides $x^{2^d}-x$ is $6$, the degree of $f$. Indeed, the irreducible factors of $f$ have degree $1,2,$ and $3$, and so $f$ divides $x^{2^d}-x$ iff $d$ is divisible by $1,2,$ and $3$. The least such $d$ is $6$.



In general, by the same reasoning, if $f$ is squarefree then the least such $d$ will be the least common multiple of the degrees of the irreducible factors of $f$.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Thank you. This now led me to another question, maybe you're interested...
    – polynomial_donut
    Nov 21 at 14:48















up vote
3
down vote



accepted










This is false. For instance, if $q=2$ and $f(x)=x(x^2+x+1)(x^3+x+1)$ then $f$ is not irreducible but the smallest $d>0$ such that $f$ divides $x^{2^d}-x$ is $6$, the degree of $f$. Indeed, the irreducible factors of $f$ have degree $1,2,$ and $3$, and so $f$ divides $x^{2^d}-x$ iff $d$ is divisible by $1,2,$ and $3$. The least such $d$ is $6$.



In general, by the same reasoning, if $f$ is squarefree then the least such $d$ will be the least common multiple of the degrees of the irreducible factors of $f$.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Thank you. This now led me to another question, maybe you're interested...
    – polynomial_donut
    Nov 21 at 14:48













up vote
3
down vote



accepted







up vote
3
down vote



accepted






This is false. For instance, if $q=2$ and $f(x)=x(x^2+x+1)(x^3+x+1)$ then $f$ is not irreducible but the smallest $d>0$ such that $f$ divides $x^{2^d}-x$ is $6$, the degree of $f$. Indeed, the irreducible factors of $f$ have degree $1,2,$ and $3$, and so $f$ divides $x^{2^d}-x$ iff $d$ is divisible by $1,2,$ and $3$. The least such $d$ is $6$.



In general, by the same reasoning, if $f$ is squarefree then the least such $d$ will be the least common multiple of the degrees of the irreducible factors of $f$.






share|cite|improve this answer












This is false. For instance, if $q=2$ and $f(x)=x(x^2+x+1)(x^3+x+1)$ then $f$ is not irreducible but the smallest $d>0$ such that $f$ divides $x^{2^d}-x$ is $6$, the degree of $f$. Indeed, the irreducible factors of $f$ have degree $1,2,$ and $3$, and so $f$ divides $x^{2^d}-x$ iff $d$ is divisible by $1,2,$ and $3$. The least such $d$ is $6$.



In general, by the same reasoning, if $f$ is squarefree then the least such $d$ will be the least common multiple of the degrees of the irreducible factors of $f$.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Nov 20 at 23:46









Eric Wofsey

176k12202327




176k12202327












  • Thank you. This now led me to another question, maybe you're interested...
    – polynomial_donut
    Nov 21 at 14:48


















  • Thank you. This now led me to another question, maybe you're interested...
    – polynomial_donut
    Nov 21 at 14:48
















Thank you. This now led me to another question, maybe you're interested...
– polynomial_donut
Nov 21 at 14:48




Thank you. This now led me to another question, maybe you're interested...
– polynomial_donut
Nov 21 at 14:48


















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3006621%2fif-deg-leftf-right-min-left-left-d-in-mathbbn-times-f-vert-xq%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Willebadessen

Ida-Boy-Ed-Garten

Residenzschloss Arolsen