Intuitively use marginalization












0












$begingroup$


Is it always true that if you sum over some variable then you can "remove" that varaible in each expression of the product inside the sum? For example:



$ sum_x P(x, y)P(y | x)P(y | x, z) = P(y)P(y)P(y|z)? $



It seems that this is often the case, but what I'm asking is if this is a general "rule" you can use?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$

















    0












    $begingroup$


    Is it always true that if you sum over some variable then you can "remove" that varaible in each expression of the product inside the sum? For example:



    $ sum_x P(x, y)P(y | x)P(y | x, z) = P(y)P(y)P(y|z)? $



    It seems that this is often the case, but what I'm asking is if this is a general "rule" you can use?










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$















      0












      0








      0





      $begingroup$


      Is it always true that if you sum over some variable then you can "remove" that varaible in each expression of the product inside the sum? For example:



      $ sum_x P(x, y)P(y | x)P(y | x, z) = P(y)P(y)P(y|z)? $



      It seems that this is often the case, but what I'm asking is if this is a general "rule" you can use?










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      Is it always true that if you sum over some variable then you can "remove" that varaible in each expression of the product inside the sum? For example:



      $ sum_x P(x, y)P(y | x)P(y | x, z) = P(y)P(y)P(y|z)? $



      It seems that this is often the case, but what I'm asking is if this is a general "rule" you can use?







      probability probability-theory conditional-probability marginal-probability






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Dec 16 '18 at 19:28









      FerusFerus

      1103




      1103






















          1 Answer
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          0












          $begingroup$

          The notation you use is a little ambiguous, but in general the way you describe it, it is incorrect. For example, take $X, Y, Z$ as discrete random variables that are independent. Let $X$ take values $x_1, dots , x_n$. According to your conjecture we should find that,



          $$sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i, Y = y) mathbb{P}(X = x_i, Z = z) = mathbb{P}(Y=y) mathbb{P}(Z = z) $$



          But this is false since if $X, Y, Z$ are independent we obtain,



          $$sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i) mathbb{P}(Y = y) mathbb{P}(X = x_i) mathbb{P}(Z = z) = mathbb{P}(Y=y) mathbb{P}(Z = z) sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i)^2 $$



          The sum of squares of the probabilities is not in general 1, take $X sim text{Bernoulli}(p)$ for example; that is, $X$ takes value $1$ with probability $p$ and $0$ with probability $(1-p)$. We do have that $(1-p) + p = 1$ but in general $(1-p)^2 + p^2 neq 1$.



          You should try to understand why marginalization works in the first place, it all comes back down to the following law of probability,



          If $A, B$ are disjoint events then,



          $$mathbb{P}(A cup B) = mathbb{P}(A) + mathbb{P}(B), (*)$$



          From this we have that if $B_1, dots, B_n$ is a partition of the sample space, meaning



          $$bigcup_{i=1}^n B_i = Omega, B_i cap B_j = emptyset, i neq j$$



          Then we obtain by applying the additivity of probability $(*)$, since we have that,



          $$A = A cap Omega = A cap bigcup_{i=1}^n B_i = bigcup_{i=1}^n A cap B_i $$



          Then,



          $$mathbb{P} (A) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(A cap B_i) $$



          Now, coming back to the language of events as values of random variables, how is this marginilisation? Consider $X$ as a discrete random variable taking values $x_1, dots , x_n$. Then the events, ${X = x_1 }, {X = x_2 }, dots , {X = x_n } $ constitute a partition of the sample space! (since the cases are exhaustive and disjoint).



          So if we let $A = {Y = y}$ and $B_i = {X = x_i }$ we have the familiar procedure of "marginilisation"



          $$mathbb{P} (Y = y) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i), (**)$$



          Note that this also works when there is a conditional probability as long as that conditional probability does not involve the variable you are marginilising over, again, try to link it back to the basics, a conditional event is of the form,



          $$mathbb{P}(A | C) = frac{mathbb{P}(A cap C)}{mathbb{P}(C)} $$



          For our marginilisation formula we have from $(**)$ that if we wanted to condition on $Z = z$ for example we can do the following,



          $$mathbb{P} (Y = y, Z = z) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i, Z = z)$$



          Then we have,



          $$frac{mathbb{P} (Y = y, Z = z)}{mathbb{P}(Z = z)} = sum_{i=1}^n frac{mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i, Z = z)}{mathbb{P}(Z = z)}$$



          So in fact we recover our "marginilisation" with just simple arithmetic,



          $$mathbb{P}(Y = y | Z = z) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i| Z = z)$$



          In summary, when thinking about laws of probability, try to link it back to the fundamental laws of probability.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Great explanation! Though I don’t understand how you say A and B are disjoint if B is a partition of the sample space? Also I think there is a typo in the last formula.
            $endgroup$
            – Ferus
            Dec 16 '18 at 23:44










          • $begingroup$
            You're right there was a typo in the last formula. As for A and B being disjoint, that only refers to the formula (*), if A and B are disjoint then we can add the probabilities over them. $B$ cannot be a partition as it is a single set (unless $B = Omega$), but the sequence of events $B_1, B_2, dots , B_n$ can form a partition
            $endgroup$
            – symchdmath
            Dec 16 '18 at 23:49










          • $begingroup$
            Alright, thanks
            $endgroup$
            – Ferus
            Dec 17 '18 at 0:03











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          $begingroup$

          The notation you use is a little ambiguous, but in general the way you describe it, it is incorrect. For example, take $X, Y, Z$ as discrete random variables that are independent. Let $X$ take values $x_1, dots , x_n$. According to your conjecture we should find that,



          $$sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i, Y = y) mathbb{P}(X = x_i, Z = z) = mathbb{P}(Y=y) mathbb{P}(Z = z) $$



          But this is false since if $X, Y, Z$ are independent we obtain,



          $$sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i) mathbb{P}(Y = y) mathbb{P}(X = x_i) mathbb{P}(Z = z) = mathbb{P}(Y=y) mathbb{P}(Z = z) sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i)^2 $$



          The sum of squares of the probabilities is not in general 1, take $X sim text{Bernoulli}(p)$ for example; that is, $X$ takes value $1$ with probability $p$ and $0$ with probability $(1-p)$. We do have that $(1-p) + p = 1$ but in general $(1-p)^2 + p^2 neq 1$.



          You should try to understand why marginalization works in the first place, it all comes back down to the following law of probability,



          If $A, B$ are disjoint events then,



          $$mathbb{P}(A cup B) = mathbb{P}(A) + mathbb{P}(B), (*)$$



          From this we have that if $B_1, dots, B_n$ is a partition of the sample space, meaning



          $$bigcup_{i=1}^n B_i = Omega, B_i cap B_j = emptyset, i neq j$$



          Then we obtain by applying the additivity of probability $(*)$, since we have that,



          $$A = A cap Omega = A cap bigcup_{i=1}^n B_i = bigcup_{i=1}^n A cap B_i $$



          Then,



          $$mathbb{P} (A) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(A cap B_i) $$



          Now, coming back to the language of events as values of random variables, how is this marginilisation? Consider $X$ as a discrete random variable taking values $x_1, dots , x_n$. Then the events, ${X = x_1 }, {X = x_2 }, dots , {X = x_n } $ constitute a partition of the sample space! (since the cases are exhaustive and disjoint).



          So if we let $A = {Y = y}$ and $B_i = {X = x_i }$ we have the familiar procedure of "marginilisation"



          $$mathbb{P} (Y = y) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i), (**)$$



          Note that this also works when there is a conditional probability as long as that conditional probability does not involve the variable you are marginilising over, again, try to link it back to the basics, a conditional event is of the form,



          $$mathbb{P}(A | C) = frac{mathbb{P}(A cap C)}{mathbb{P}(C)} $$



          For our marginilisation formula we have from $(**)$ that if we wanted to condition on $Z = z$ for example we can do the following,



          $$mathbb{P} (Y = y, Z = z) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i, Z = z)$$



          Then we have,



          $$frac{mathbb{P} (Y = y, Z = z)}{mathbb{P}(Z = z)} = sum_{i=1}^n frac{mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i, Z = z)}{mathbb{P}(Z = z)}$$



          So in fact we recover our "marginilisation" with just simple arithmetic,



          $$mathbb{P}(Y = y | Z = z) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i| Z = z)$$



          In summary, when thinking about laws of probability, try to link it back to the fundamental laws of probability.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Great explanation! Though I don’t understand how you say A and B are disjoint if B is a partition of the sample space? Also I think there is a typo in the last formula.
            $endgroup$
            – Ferus
            Dec 16 '18 at 23:44










          • $begingroup$
            You're right there was a typo in the last formula. As for A and B being disjoint, that only refers to the formula (*), if A and B are disjoint then we can add the probabilities over them. $B$ cannot be a partition as it is a single set (unless $B = Omega$), but the sequence of events $B_1, B_2, dots , B_n$ can form a partition
            $endgroup$
            – symchdmath
            Dec 16 '18 at 23:49










          • $begingroup$
            Alright, thanks
            $endgroup$
            – Ferus
            Dec 17 '18 at 0:03
















          0












          $begingroup$

          The notation you use is a little ambiguous, but in general the way you describe it, it is incorrect. For example, take $X, Y, Z$ as discrete random variables that are independent. Let $X$ take values $x_1, dots , x_n$. According to your conjecture we should find that,



          $$sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i, Y = y) mathbb{P}(X = x_i, Z = z) = mathbb{P}(Y=y) mathbb{P}(Z = z) $$



          But this is false since if $X, Y, Z$ are independent we obtain,



          $$sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i) mathbb{P}(Y = y) mathbb{P}(X = x_i) mathbb{P}(Z = z) = mathbb{P}(Y=y) mathbb{P}(Z = z) sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i)^2 $$



          The sum of squares of the probabilities is not in general 1, take $X sim text{Bernoulli}(p)$ for example; that is, $X$ takes value $1$ with probability $p$ and $0$ with probability $(1-p)$. We do have that $(1-p) + p = 1$ but in general $(1-p)^2 + p^2 neq 1$.



          You should try to understand why marginalization works in the first place, it all comes back down to the following law of probability,



          If $A, B$ are disjoint events then,



          $$mathbb{P}(A cup B) = mathbb{P}(A) + mathbb{P}(B), (*)$$



          From this we have that if $B_1, dots, B_n$ is a partition of the sample space, meaning



          $$bigcup_{i=1}^n B_i = Omega, B_i cap B_j = emptyset, i neq j$$



          Then we obtain by applying the additivity of probability $(*)$, since we have that,



          $$A = A cap Omega = A cap bigcup_{i=1}^n B_i = bigcup_{i=1}^n A cap B_i $$



          Then,



          $$mathbb{P} (A) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(A cap B_i) $$



          Now, coming back to the language of events as values of random variables, how is this marginilisation? Consider $X$ as a discrete random variable taking values $x_1, dots , x_n$. Then the events, ${X = x_1 }, {X = x_2 }, dots , {X = x_n } $ constitute a partition of the sample space! (since the cases are exhaustive and disjoint).



          So if we let $A = {Y = y}$ and $B_i = {X = x_i }$ we have the familiar procedure of "marginilisation"



          $$mathbb{P} (Y = y) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i), (**)$$



          Note that this also works when there is a conditional probability as long as that conditional probability does not involve the variable you are marginilising over, again, try to link it back to the basics, a conditional event is of the form,



          $$mathbb{P}(A | C) = frac{mathbb{P}(A cap C)}{mathbb{P}(C)} $$



          For our marginilisation formula we have from $(**)$ that if we wanted to condition on $Z = z$ for example we can do the following,



          $$mathbb{P} (Y = y, Z = z) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i, Z = z)$$



          Then we have,



          $$frac{mathbb{P} (Y = y, Z = z)}{mathbb{P}(Z = z)} = sum_{i=1}^n frac{mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i, Z = z)}{mathbb{P}(Z = z)}$$



          So in fact we recover our "marginilisation" with just simple arithmetic,



          $$mathbb{P}(Y = y | Z = z) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i| Z = z)$$



          In summary, when thinking about laws of probability, try to link it back to the fundamental laws of probability.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Great explanation! Though I don’t understand how you say A and B are disjoint if B is a partition of the sample space? Also I think there is a typo in the last formula.
            $endgroup$
            – Ferus
            Dec 16 '18 at 23:44










          • $begingroup$
            You're right there was a typo in the last formula. As for A and B being disjoint, that only refers to the formula (*), if A and B are disjoint then we can add the probabilities over them. $B$ cannot be a partition as it is a single set (unless $B = Omega$), but the sequence of events $B_1, B_2, dots , B_n$ can form a partition
            $endgroup$
            – symchdmath
            Dec 16 '18 at 23:49










          • $begingroup$
            Alright, thanks
            $endgroup$
            – Ferus
            Dec 17 '18 at 0:03














          0












          0








          0





          $begingroup$

          The notation you use is a little ambiguous, but in general the way you describe it, it is incorrect. For example, take $X, Y, Z$ as discrete random variables that are independent. Let $X$ take values $x_1, dots , x_n$. According to your conjecture we should find that,



          $$sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i, Y = y) mathbb{P}(X = x_i, Z = z) = mathbb{P}(Y=y) mathbb{P}(Z = z) $$



          But this is false since if $X, Y, Z$ are independent we obtain,



          $$sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i) mathbb{P}(Y = y) mathbb{P}(X = x_i) mathbb{P}(Z = z) = mathbb{P}(Y=y) mathbb{P}(Z = z) sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i)^2 $$



          The sum of squares of the probabilities is not in general 1, take $X sim text{Bernoulli}(p)$ for example; that is, $X$ takes value $1$ with probability $p$ and $0$ with probability $(1-p)$. We do have that $(1-p) + p = 1$ but in general $(1-p)^2 + p^2 neq 1$.



          You should try to understand why marginalization works in the first place, it all comes back down to the following law of probability,



          If $A, B$ are disjoint events then,



          $$mathbb{P}(A cup B) = mathbb{P}(A) + mathbb{P}(B), (*)$$



          From this we have that if $B_1, dots, B_n$ is a partition of the sample space, meaning



          $$bigcup_{i=1}^n B_i = Omega, B_i cap B_j = emptyset, i neq j$$



          Then we obtain by applying the additivity of probability $(*)$, since we have that,



          $$A = A cap Omega = A cap bigcup_{i=1}^n B_i = bigcup_{i=1}^n A cap B_i $$



          Then,



          $$mathbb{P} (A) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(A cap B_i) $$



          Now, coming back to the language of events as values of random variables, how is this marginilisation? Consider $X$ as a discrete random variable taking values $x_1, dots , x_n$. Then the events, ${X = x_1 }, {X = x_2 }, dots , {X = x_n } $ constitute a partition of the sample space! (since the cases are exhaustive and disjoint).



          So if we let $A = {Y = y}$ and $B_i = {X = x_i }$ we have the familiar procedure of "marginilisation"



          $$mathbb{P} (Y = y) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i), (**)$$



          Note that this also works when there is a conditional probability as long as that conditional probability does not involve the variable you are marginilising over, again, try to link it back to the basics, a conditional event is of the form,



          $$mathbb{P}(A | C) = frac{mathbb{P}(A cap C)}{mathbb{P}(C)} $$



          For our marginilisation formula we have from $(**)$ that if we wanted to condition on $Z = z$ for example we can do the following,



          $$mathbb{P} (Y = y, Z = z) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i, Z = z)$$



          Then we have,



          $$frac{mathbb{P} (Y = y, Z = z)}{mathbb{P}(Z = z)} = sum_{i=1}^n frac{mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i, Z = z)}{mathbb{P}(Z = z)}$$



          So in fact we recover our "marginilisation" with just simple arithmetic,



          $$mathbb{P}(Y = y | Z = z) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i| Z = z)$$



          In summary, when thinking about laws of probability, try to link it back to the fundamental laws of probability.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          The notation you use is a little ambiguous, but in general the way you describe it, it is incorrect. For example, take $X, Y, Z$ as discrete random variables that are independent. Let $X$ take values $x_1, dots , x_n$. According to your conjecture we should find that,



          $$sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i, Y = y) mathbb{P}(X = x_i, Z = z) = mathbb{P}(Y=y) mathbb{P}(Z = z) $$



          But this is false since if $X, Y, Z$ are independent we obtain,



          $$sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i) mathbb{P}(Y = y) mathbb{P}(X = x_i) mathbb{P}(Z = z) = mathbb{P}(Y=y) mathbb{P}(Z = z) sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(X = x_i)^2 $$



          The sum of squares of the probabilities is not in general 1, take $X sim text{Bernoulli}(p)$ for example; that is, $X$ takes value $1$ with probability $p$ and $0$ with probability $(1-p)$. We do have that $(1-p) + p = 1$ but in general $(1-p)^2 + p^2 neq 1$.



          You should try to understand why marginalization works in the first place, it all comes back down to the following law of probability,



          If $A, B$ are disjoint events then,



          $$mathbb{P}(A cup B) = mathbb{P}(A) + mathbb{P}(B), (*)$$



          From this we have that if $B_1, dots, B_n$ is a partition of the sample space, meaning



          $$bigcup_{i=1}^n B_i = Omega, B_i cap B_j = emptyset, i neq j$$



          Then we obtain by applying the additivity of probability $(*)$, since we have that,



          $$A = A cap Omega = A cap bigcup_{i=1}^n B_i = bigcup_{i=1}^n A cap B_i $$



          Then,



          $$mathbb{P} (A) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(A cap B_i) $$



          Now, coming back to the language of events as values of random variables, how is this marginilisation? Consider $X$ as a discrete random variable taking values $x_1, dots , x_n$. Then the events, ${X = x_1 }, {X = x_2 }, dots , {X = x_n } $ constitute a partition of the sample space! (since the cases are exhaustive and disjoint).



          So if we let $A = {Y = y}$ and $B_i = {X = x_i }$ we have the familiar procedure of "marginilisation"



          $$mathbb{P} (Y = y) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i), (**)$$



          Note that this also works when there is a conditional probability as long as that conditional probability does not involve the variable you are marginilising over, again, try to link it back to the basics, a conditional event is of the form,



          $$mathbb{P}(A | C) = frac{mathbb{P}(A cap C)}{mathbb{P}(C)} $$



          For our marginilisation formula we have from $(**)$ that if we wanted to condition on $Z = z$ for example we can do the following,



          $$mathbb{P} (Y = y, Z = z) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i, Z = z)$$



          Then we have,



          $$frac{mathbb{P} (Y = y, Z = z)}{mathbb{P}(Z = z)} = sum_{i=1}^n frac{mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i, Z = z)}{mathbb{P}(Z = z)}$$



          So in fact we recover our "marginilisation" with just simple arithmetic,



          $$mathbb{P}(Y = y | Z = z) = sum_{i=1}^n mathbb{P}(Y = y, X = x_i| Z = z)$$



          In summary, when thinking about laws of probability, try to link it back to the fundamental laws of probability.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Dec 16 '18 at 23:48

























          answered Dec 16 '18 at 21:40









          symchdmathsymchdmath

          60817




          60817












          • $begingroup$
            Great explanation! Though I don’t understand how you say A and B are disjoint if B is a partition of the sample space? Also I think there is a typo in the last formula.
            $endgroup$
            – Ferus
            Dec 16 '18 at 23:44










          • $begingroup$
            You're right there was a typo in the last formula. As for A and B being disjoint, that only refers to the formula (*), if A and B are disjoint then we can add the probabilities over them. $B$ cannot be a partition as it is a single set (unless $B = Omega$), but the sequence of events $B_1, B_2, dots , B_n$ can form a partition
            $endgroup$
            – symchdmath
            Dec 16 '18 at 23:49










          • $begingroup$
            Alright, thanks
            $endgroup$
            – Ferus
            Dec 17 '18 at 0:03


















          • $begingroup$
            Great explanation! Though I don’t understand how you say A and B are disjoint if B is a partition of the sample space? Also I think there is a typo in the last formula.
            $endgroup$
            – Ferus
            Dec 16 '18 at 23:44










          • $begingroup$
            You're right there was a typo in the last formula. As for A and B being disjoint, that only refers to the formula (*), if A and B are disjoint then we can add the probabilities over them. $B$ cannot be a partition as it is a single set (unless $B = Omega$), but the sequence of events $B_1, B_2, dots , B_n$ can form a partition
            $endgroup$
            – symchdmath
            Dec 16 '18 at 23:49










          • $begingroup$
            Alright, thanks
            $endgroup$
            – Ferus
            Dec 17 '18 at 0:03
















          $begingroup$
          Great explanation! Though I don’t understand how you say A and B are disjoint if B is a partition of the sample space? Also I think there is a typo in the last formula.
          $endgroup$
          – Ferus
          Dec 16 '18 at 23:44




          $begingroup$
          Great explanation! Though I don’t understand how you say A and B are disjoint if B is a partition of the sample space? Also I think there is a typo in the last formula.
          $endgroup$
          – Ferus
          Dec 16 '18 at 23:44












          $begingroup$
          You're right there was a typo in the last formula. As for A and B being disjoint, that only refers to the formula (*), if A and B are disjoint then we can add the probabilities over them. $B$ cannot be a partition as it is a single set (unless $B = Omega$), but the sequence of events $B_1, B_2, dots , B_n$ can form a partition
          $endgroup$
          – symchdmath
          Dec 16 '18 at 23:49




          $begingroup$
          You're right there was a typo in the last formula. As for A and B being disjoint, that only refers to the formula (*), if A and B are disjoint then we can add the probabilities over them. $B$ cannot be a partition as it is a single set (unless $B = Omega$), but the sequence of events $B_1, B_2, dots , B_n$ can form a partition
          $endgroup$
          – symchdmath
          Dec 16 '18 at 23:49












          $begingroup$
          Alright, thanks
          $endgroup$
          – Ferus
          Dec 17 '18 at 0:03




          $begingroup$
          Alright, thanks
          $endgroup$
          – Ferus
          Dec 17 '18 at 0:03


















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