Is it true that there aren't any three different numbers $x,y,z$ such that $x^3+x equiv y^3+y equiv z^3+z...
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Let $p$ be a prime number. Is it true that there aren't any three different numbers $x,y,z$ such that $$x^3+x equiv y^3+y equiv z^3+z pmod p $$
with $x -y, y-z, z-x$, each of them cannot be divided by $p$ ?
If not, what are the conditions of $p$ so that the statement is true for prime number $p$ ?
I tried with $p=3,7$ and both of them are correct, so I think that $p equiv 3 pmod 4$ may satisfy the statement.
My other attempt: Assume by contradiction, there exist $x,y,z$ such that $$x^3+x equiv y^3+y equiv z^3+z pmod p$$
with $x -y, y-z, z-x$, each of them cannot be divided by $p$. Then $$x^2+xy+y^2 equiv y^2+yz+z^2 equiv z^2+zx+x^2 pmod p$$
thus $$x+y+z equiv 0 pmod p.$$
Here I am stuck. How can I solve this problem ?
(Sorry for my English)
number-theory
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Let $p$ be a prime number. Is it true that there aren't any three different numbers $x,y,z$ such that $$x^3+x equiv y^3+y equiv z^3+z pmod p $$
with $x -y, y-z, z-x$, each of them cannot be divided by $p$ ?
If not, what are the conditions of $p$ so that the statement is true for prime number $p$ ?
I tried with $p=3,7$ and both of them are correct, so I think that $p equiv 3 pmod 4$ may satisfy the statement.
My other attempt: Assume by contradiction, there exist $x,y,z$ such that $$x^3+x equiv y^3+y equiv z^3+z pmod p$$
with $x -y, y-z, z-x$, each of them cannot be divided by $p$. Then $$x^2+xy+y^2 equiv y^2+yz+z^2 equiv z^2+zx+x^2 pmod p$$
thus $$x+y+z equiv 0 pmod p.$$
Here I am stuck. How can I solve this problem ?
(Sorry for my English)
number-theory
1
If $-1$ is a quadratic residue modulo the odd prime $p$ say $y^2equiv-1pmod{p}$ then $0, y$ and $-y$ are distinct solutions to $x^3+x=0$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:24
@saulspatz Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. How can I progress ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:33
I was just confirming your intuition that it can't be done unless $pequiv3pmod{4}$ I don't know how to prove it can be done in this case. We want to say there's a cubic of the form $x^3+x+C$ over GF($p$) with $3$ distinct roots whenever $pequiv3pmod{4}$. I'm not sure how to proceed.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:43
1
All computations are in GF($p$). If $(x-a)(x-b)(x-c)=x^3+x+C,$ then $a+b+c=0,ab+ac+bc=1$ so that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1.$ It would be enough to show that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$ has no solutions for $ane b, pequiv3pmod{4}$ Computer experiments with small primes support this hypothesis, but I don't know how to prove it.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:45
1
@WillJagy There was a mistake in my own script. I've been wondering how you and Jyrki could have gotten results diametrically opposed to mine, but I see now that I left out a pair of parentheses!
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:06
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Let $p$ be a prime number. Is it true that there aren't any three different numbers $x,y,z$ such that $$x^3+x equiv y^3+y equiv z^3+z pmod p $$
with $x -y, y-z, z-x$, each of them cannot be divided by $p$ ?
If not, what are the conditions of $p$ so that the statement is true for prime number $p$ ?
I tried with $p=3,7$ and both of them are correct, so I think that $p equiv 3 pmod 4$ may satisfy the statement.
My other attempt: Assume by contradiction, there exist $x,y,z$ such that $$x^3+x equiv y^3+y equiv z^3+z pmod p$$
with $x -y, y-z, z-x$, each of them cannot be divided by $p$. Then $$x^2+xy+y^2 equiv y^2+yz+z^2 equiv z^2+zx+x^2 pmod p$$
thus $$x+y+z equiv 0 pmod p.$$
Here I am stuck. How can I solve this problem ?
(Sorry for my English)
number-theory
Let $p$ be a prime number. Is it true that there aren't any three different numbers $x,y,z$ such that $$x^3+x equiv y^3+y equiv z^3+z pmod p $$
with $x -y, y-z, z-x$, each of them cannot be divided by $p$ ?
If not, what are the conditions of $p$ so that the statement is true for prime number $p$ ?
I tried with $p=3,7$ and both of them are correct, so I think that $p equiv 3 pmod 4$ may satisfy the statement.
My other attempt: Assume by contradiction, there exist $x,y,z$ such that $$x^3+x equiv y^3+y equiv z^3+z pmod p$$
with $x -y, y-z, z-x$, each of them cannot be divided by $p$. Then $$x^2+xy+y^2 equiv y^2+yz+z^2 equiv z^2+zx+x^2 pmod p$$
thus $$x+y+z equiv 0 pmod p.$$
Here I am stuck. How can I solve this problem ?
(Sorry for my English)
number-theory
number-theory
edited Nov 24 at 17:04
Bernard
117k637110
117k637110
asked Nov 24 at 16:08
rice
355
355
1
If $-1$ is a quadratic residue modulo the odd prime $p$ say $y^2equiv-1pmod{p}$ then $0, y$ and $-y$ are distinct solutions to $x^3+x=0$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:24
@saulspatz Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. How can I progress ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:33
I was just confirming your intuition that it can't be done unless $pequiv3pmod{4}$ I don't know how to prove it can be done in this case. We want to say there's a cubic of the form $x^3+x+C$ over GF($p$) with $3$ distinct roots whenever $pequiv3pmod{4}$. I'm not sure how to proceed.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:43
1
All computations are in GF($p$). If $(x-a)(x-b)(x-c)=x^3+x+C,$ then $a+b+c=0,ab+ac+bc=1$ so that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1.$ It would be enough to show that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$ has no solutions for $ane b, pequiv3pmod{4}$ Computer experiments with small primes support this hypothesis, but I don't know how to prove it.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:45
1
@WillJagy There was a mistake in my own script. I've been wondering how you and Jyrki could have gotten results diametrically opposed to mine, but I see now that I left out a pair of parentheses!
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:06
|
show 3 more comments
1
If $-1$ is a quadratic residue modulo the odd prime $p$ say $y^2equiv-1pmod{p}$ then $0, y$ and $-y$ are distinct solutions to $x^3+x=0$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:24
@saulspatz Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. How can I progress ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:33
I was just confirming your intuition that it can't be done unless $pequiv3pmod{4}$ I don't know how to prove it can be done in this case. We want to say there's a cubic of the form $x^3+x+C$ over GF($p$) with $3$ distinct roots whenever $pequiv3pmod{4}$. I'm not sure how to proceed.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:43
1
All computations are in GF($p$). If $(x-a)(x-b)(x-c)=x^3+x+C,$ then $a+b+c=0,ab+ac+bc=1$ so that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1.$ It would be enough to show that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$ has no solutions for $ane b, pequiv3pmod{4}$ Computer experiments with small primes support this hypothesis, but I don't know how to prove it.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:45
1
@WillJagy There was a mistake in my own script. I've been wondering how you and Jyrki could have gotten results diametrically opposed to mine, but I see now that I left out a pair of parentheses!
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:06
1
1
If $-1$ is a quadratic residue modulo the odd prime $p$ say $y^2equiv-1pmod{p}$ then $0, y$ and $-y$ are distinct solutions to $x^3+x=0$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:24
If $-1$ is a quadratic residue modulo the odd prime $p$ say $y^2equiv-1pmod{p}$ then $0, y$ and $-y$ are distinct solutions to $x^3+x=0$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:24
@saulspatz Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. How can I progress ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:33
@saulspatz Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. How can I progress ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:33
I was just confirming your intuition that it can't be done unless $pequiv3pmod{4}$ I don't know how to prove it can be done in this case. We want to say there's a cubic of the form $x^3+x+C$ over GF($p$) with $3$ distinct roots whenever $pequiv3pmod{4}$. I'm not sure how to proceed.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:43
I was just confirming your intuition that it can't be done unless $pequiv3pmod{4}$ I don't know how to prove it can be done in this case. We want to say there's a cubic of the form $x^3+x+C$ over GF($p$) with $3$ distinct roots whenever $pequiv3pmod{4}$. I'm not sure how to proceed.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:43
1
1
All computations are in GF($p$). If $(x-a)(x-b)(x-c)=x^3+x+C,$ then $a+b+c=0,ab+ac+bc=1$ so that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1.$ It would be enough to show that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$ has no solutions for $ane b, pequiv3pmod{4}$ Computer experiments with small primes support this hypothesis, but I don't know how to prove it.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:45
All computations are in GF($p$). If $(x-a)(x-b)(x-c)=x^3+x+C,$ then $a+b+c=0,ab+ac+bc=1$ so that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1.$ It would be enough to show that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$ has no solutions for $ane b, pequiv3pmod{4}$ Computer experiments with small primes support this hypothesis, but I don't know how to prove it.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:45
1
1
@WillJagy There was a mistake in my own script. I've been wondering how you and Jyrki could have gotten results diametrically opposed to mine, but I see now that I left out a pair of parentheses!
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:06
@WillJagy There was a mistake in my own script. I've been wondering how you and Jyrki could have gotten results diametrically opposed to mine, but I see now that I left out a pair of parentheses!
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:06
|
show 3 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
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up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Solutions exist for all primes $pge5,pneq7$.
As the OP observed, we have the Vieta relation $x+y+z=0$ as $x,y,z$ are the zeros of the cubic
$$
P(T)=T^3+T+c=(T-x)(T-y)(T-z)
$$
in the field $Bbb{F}_p$. Here $-c=-xyz$ is the shared value of $x^3+x,y^3+y$ and $z^3+z$ (treated as elements of $Bbb{F}_p$ turning congruences into equalities).
The relation $z=-x-y$ takes care of the quadratic term, and
we are well placed to take advantage of the degree of freedom to select $c$ any which way we wish. Let's concentrate on the linear term! Expanding $(T-x)(T-y)(T+x+y)$ tells us that
$$
(T-x)(T-y)(T+x+y)=T^3-T(x^2+xy+y^2)-xyz,
$$
so we want to be able to choose distinct elements $x,yinBbb{F}_p$ such that $x^2+xy+y^2=-1$.
This is possible whenever $p>3$.
Assume first that $pequiv1pmod3$. In this case there is a primitive cubic root of unity $omegainBbb{F}_p$. It satisfies the equation
$$
omega^2+omega+1=0.
$$
And that relation gives us the factorization
$$
a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).
$$
So we can select any two numbers $c,dinBbb{F}_p$ such that $cd=-1$. Then the linear system
$$
left{begin{array}{lcl}
a-omega b&=&c\
a-omega^2b&=&d
end{array}right.
$$
has a unique solution $(a,b)$. After all, its determinant is $omega-omega^2neq0$.
Then assume that $pequiv-1pmod3$. In this case $omega$ only exists in the extension field $Bbb{F}_{p^2}$. But, in that case we are dealing with the norm map
$$
N:Bbb{F}_{p^2}toBbb{F}_p, a-bomegamapsto (a-bomega)(a-bomega^2)=a^2+ab+b^2.
$$
By elementary properties of finite fields the norm is surjective, and takes each non-zero value in $Bbb{F}_p$ exactly $p+1$ times. In particular, there are $p+1$ pairs $(a,b)$ such that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$.
The above argument did not concern the possibility that some of $x,y,z$ may be equal (i.e. $P(T)$ has a multiple root for the resulting $c$). If $x=y$, then $x^2+xy+y^2=3x^2$. If $-1/3$ is a quadratic residue, we need to rule out two possible values of $x$. If $x=-y-x$ then $y=-2x$, and again $3x^2=-1$. Finally, if $y=-y-x$ then $x=-2y$ we need to rule the solutions of $3y^2=-1$.
At most six pairs $(x,y)$ were ruled out. If $p>7$ then in the first case the number of pairs $(c,d)$ such that $cd=-1$ is high enough to leave some solutions. All the cases where we had repetitions among ${x,y,-x-y}$ lead to the presence of a square root of $-3inBbb{F}_p$, so the second case of $pequiv-1pmod 3$ is not affected.
The claim follows.
It may be worth noting that $p=7$ fails precisely because all the solutions of $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$, namely $(a,b)in{(1,3),(3,1),(3,3),(4,4),(4,6),(6,4)}$ lead to repetitions among ${a,b,-a-b}$. None of the six solutions of $cd=-1$ work!
I will add the details about $x,y,z$ being distinct later. Sorry about the pause. Missus needs me now.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:36
Looks good, I put a second answer that (numerically) supports exactly your conclusion.
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:41
Sorry about delay. I had to go do some last minute shopping before the grocery store closes. I will NOT spend another day without missus' freshly baked bread.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:19
There's a typo in the factorization. It should say $$a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).$$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:22
Thanks @saulspatz!
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:23
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
well, if $p > 31$ and we can express
$$ p = u^2 + uv + 8 v^2 $$
with integers, then there are three distinct solutions to $t^3 + t equiv -1 pmod p$
31, 47, 67, 131, 149, 173, 227, 283, 293, 349,
379, 431, 521, 577, 607, 617, 653, 811, 839, 853,
857, 919, 937, 971, 1031, 1063, 1117, 1187, 1213, 1237,
1259, 1303, 1327, 1451, 1493, 1523, 1559, 1583, 1619, 1663,
1721, 1723, 1741, 1879, 1931, 1973, 1993, 2003, 2017, 2153,
2273, 2333, 2341,
=============================================
? p = 47
%5 = 47
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%6 =
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(12, 47) 1]
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(13, 47) 1]
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(22, 47) 1]
? p = 67
%7 = 67
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%8 =
[ Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(4, 67) 1]
[ Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(9, 67) 1]
[Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(54, 67) 1]
? p=131
%9 = 131
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%10 =
[ Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(56, 131) 1]
[ Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(80, 131) 1]
[Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(126, 131) 1]
? p=149
%11 = 149
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%12 =
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(11, 149) 1]
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(56, 149) 1]
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(82, 149) 1]
?
1
I was expecting you to show up :-)
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:31
@Jyrki, It seems that an odd prime $p$ has three distinct roots for some $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p,$ with some $c = c(p),$ unless $p = 3,7.$ I think that is what is being asked... will post separate answer with illustration
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:34
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
well, I checked pretty high for primes $p$ such that, for some fixed $c = c(p),$ the relation $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p$ has three distinct roots $pmod p.$ As far as I can tell, this always happens unless $p = 3,7$
There are some patterns behind the scenes. When $p equiv 1 pmod 4$ we can use $c=0.$ When Legendre symbol $(p|7)=1$ we can use $c=2.$ When $p = u^2 + uv + 8 v^2$ we can use $c=1.$ When $p = u^2 + uv + 62 v^2$ or $p = 8u^2 + 3uv + 8 v^2$ we can use $c=3.$ When $p = 2u^2 + 2uv + 55 v^2$ we can use $c=4.$
=====================
3 WOW
5 c: 0 roots: 0 2 3
7 WOW
11 c: 2 roots: 5 7 10
13 c: 0 roots: 0 5 8
17 c: 0 roots: 0 4 13
19 c: 8 roots: 3 4 12
23 c: 2 roots: 10 14 22
29 c: 0 roots: 0 12 17
31 c: 6 roots: 9 26 27
37 c: 0 roots: 0 6 31
41 c: 0 roots: 0 9 32
43 c: 2 roots: 19 25 42
47 c: 1 roots: 25 34 35
53 c: 0 roots: 0 23 30
59 c: 4 roots: 7 20 32
61 c: 0 roots: 0 11 50
67 c: 1 roots: 13 58 63
71 c: 2 roots: 32 40 70
73 c: 0 roots: 0 27 46
79 c: 2 roots: 13 67 78
83 c: 11 roots: 19 23 41
89 c: 0 roots: 0 34 55
97 c: 0 roots: 0 22 75
101 c: 0 roots: 0 10 91
103 c: 8 roots: 16 34 53
107 c: 2 roots: 49 59 106
109 c: 0 roots: 0 33 76
113 c: 0 roots: 0 15 98
127 c: 2 roots: 23 105 126
131 c: 1 roots: 5 51 75
137 c: 0 roots: 0 37 100
139 c: 4 roots: 32 48 59
149 c: 0 roots: 0 44 105
151 c: 2 roots: 70 82 150
======================
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
This is not true. Consider $x=0$, $y=2$, and $z=3$ mod $5$ (this is a special case of saulspatz counterexample).
Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. What are the conditions of $p$ so that the statement is true ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:34
Not sure I'll make any progress on that problem, but I'll post any that I make!
– Isaac Browne
Nov 24 at 17:36
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
If $p=n^2+1$ (such as $5,17,37dots$), then $x=0, y=n, z=(p-n)$ will solve your equivalence with all three terms congruent to $0$.
$x^3+x=0; y^3+y=n(n^2+1)=npequiv 0 mod{p}; z^3+z=(p-n)(p^2-2np+n^2+1)=(p-n)(p^2-2np+p)=p(p-n)(p-2n+1)equiv 0mod{p}$
$p$ cannot be of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv 3mod{4}$.
Yes, $p$ is not of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv3pmod{4},$ but that just shows your counterexample doesn't work in that case. It doesn't show there isn't some other counterexample.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:27
@saulspatz I agree. I showed a class of counterexamples, and I made plain that $pequiv 3mod{4}$ will not give counterexamples in that class. There may be other isolated counterexamples, or perhaps even classes of counterexamples, that my answer has not identified.
– Keith Backman
Nov 24 at 17:38
add a comment |
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5 Answers
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5 Answers
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Solutions exist for all primes $pge5,pneq7$.
As the OP observed, we have the Vieta relation $x+y+z=0$ as $x,y,z$ are the zeros of the cubic
$$
P(T)=T^3+T+c=(T-x)(T-y)(T-z)
$$
in the field $Bbb{F}_p$. Here $-c=-xyz$ is the shared value of $x^3+x,y^3+y$ and $z^3+z$ (treated as elements of $Bbb{F}_p$ turning congruences into equalities).
The relation $z=-x-y$ takes care of the quadratic term, and
we are well placed to take advantage of the degree of freedom to select $c$ any which way we wish. Let's concentrate on the linear term! Expanding $(T-x)(T-y)(T+x+y)$ tells us that
$$
(T-x)(T-y)(T+x+y)=T^3-T(x^2+xy+y^2)-xyz,
$$
so we want to be able to choose distinct elements $x,yinBbb{F}_p$ such that $x^2+xy+y^2=-1$.
This is possible whenever $p>3$.
Assume first that $pequiv1pmod3$. In this case there is a primitive cubic root of unity $omegainBbb{F}_p$. It satisfies the equation
$$
omega^2+omega+1=0.
$$
And that relation gives us the factorization
$$
a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).
$$
So we can select any two numbers $c,dinBbb{F}_p$ such that $cd=-1$. Then the linear system
$$
left{begin{array}{lcl}
a-omega b&=&c\
a-omega^2b&=&d
end{array}right.
$$
has a unique solution $(a,b)$. After all, its determinant is $omega-omega^2neq0$.
Then assume that $pequiv-1pmod3$. In this case $omega$ only exists in the extension field $Bbb{F}_{p^2}$. But, in that case we are dealing with the norm map
$$
N:Bbb{F}_{p^2}toBbb{F}_p, a-bomegamapsto (a-bomega)(a-bomega^2)=a^2+ab+b^2.
$$
By elementary properties of finite fields the norm is surjective, and takes each non-zero value in $Bbb{F}_p$ exactly $p+1$ times. In particular, there are $p+1$ pairs $(a,b)$ such that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$.
The above argument did not concern the possibility that some of $x,y,z$ may be equal (i.e. $P(T)$ has a multiple root for the resulting $c$). If $x=y$, then $x^2+xy+y^2=3x^2$. If $-1/3$ is a quadratic residue, we need to rule out two possible values of $x$. If $x=-y-x$ then $y=-2x$, and again $3x^2=-1$. Finally, if $y=-y-x$ then $x=-2y$ we need to rule the solutions of $3y^2=-1$.
At most six pairs $(x,y)$ were ruled out. If $p>7$ then in the first case the number of pairs $(c,d)$ such that $cd=-1$ is high enough to leave some solutions. All the cases where we had repetitions among ${x,y,-x-y}$ lead to the presence of a square root of $-3inBbb{F}_p$, so the second case of $pequiv-1pmod 3$ is not affected.
The claim follows.
It may be worth noting that $p=7$ fails precisely because all the solutions of $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$, namely $(a,b)in{(1,3),(3,1),(3,3),(4,4),(4,6),(6,4)}$ lead to repetitions among ${a,b,-a-b}$. None of the six solutions of $cd=-1$ work!
I will add the details about $x,y,z$ being distinct later. Sorry about the pause. Missus needs me now.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:36
Looks good, I put a second answer that (numerically) supports exactly your conclusion.
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:41
Sorry about delay. I had to go do some last minute shopping before the grocery store closes. I will NOT spend another day without missus' freshly baked bread.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:19
There's a typo in the factorization. It should say $$a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).$$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:22
Thanks @saulspatz!
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:23
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Solutions exist for all primes $pge5,pneq7$.
As the OP observed, we have the Vieta relation $x+y+z=0$ as $x,y,z$ are the zeros of the cubic
$$
P(T)=T^3+T+c=(T-x)(T-y)(T-z)
$$
in the field $Bbb{F}_p$. Here $-c=-xyz$ is the shared value of $x^3+x,y^3+y$ and $z^3+z$ (treated as elements of $Bbb{F}_p$ turning congruences into equalities).
The relation $z=-x-y$ takes care of the quadratic term, and
we are well placed to take advantage of the degree of freedom to select $c$ any which way we wish. Let's concentrate on the linear term! Expanding $(T-x)(T-y)(T+x+y)$ tells us that
$$
(T-x)(T-y)(T+x+y)=T^3-T(x^2+xy+y^2)-xyz,
$$
so we want to be able to choose distinct elements $x,yinBbb{F}_p$ such that $x^2+xy+y^2=-1$.
This is possible whenever $p>3$.
Assume first that $pequiv1pmod3$. In this case there is a primitive cubic root of unity $omegainBbb{F}_p$. It satisfies the equation
$$
omega^2+omega+1=0.
$$
And that relation gives us the factorization
$$
a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).
$$
So we can select any two numbers $c,dinBbb{F}_p$ such that $cd=-1$. Then the linear system
$$
left{begin{array}{lcl}
a-omega b&=&c\
a-omega^2b&=&d
end{array}right.
$$
has a unique solution $(a,b)$. After all, its determinant is $omega-omega^2neq0$.
Then assume that $pequiv-1pmod3$. In this case $omega$ only exists in the extension field $Bbb{F}_{p^2}$. But, in that case we are dealing with the norm map
$$
N:Bbb{F}_{p^2}toBbb{F}_p, a-bomegamapsto (a-bomega)(a-bomega^2)=a^2+ab+b^2.
$$
By elementary properties of finite fields the norm is surjective, and takes each non-zero value in $Bbb{F}_p$ exactly $p+1$ times. In particular, there are $p+1$ pairs $(a,b)$ such that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$.
The above argument did not concern the possibility that some of $x,y,z$ may be equal (i.e. $P(T)$ has a multiple root for the resulting $c$). If $x=y$, then $x^2+xy+y^2=3x^2$. If $-1/3$ is a quadratic residue, we need to rule out two possible values of $x$. If $x=-y-x$ then $y=-2x$, and again $3x^2=-1$. Finally, if $y=-y-x$ then $x=-2y$ we need to rule the solutions of $3y^2=-1$.
At most six pairs $(x,y)$ were ruled out. If $p>7$ then in the first case the number of pairs $(c,d)$ such that $cd=-1$ is high enough to leave some solutions. All the cases where we had repetitions among ${x,y,-x-y}$ lead to the presence of a square root of $-3inBbb{F}_p$, so the second case of $pequiv-1pmod 3$ is not affected.
The claim follows.
It may be worth noting that $p=7$ fails precisely because all the solutions of $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$, namely $(a,b)in{(1,3),(3,1),(3,3),(4,4),(4,6),(6,4)}$ lead to repetitions among ${a,b,-a-b}$. None of the six solutions of $cd=-1$ work!
I will add the details about $x,y,z$ being distinct later. Sorry about the pause. Missus needs me now.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:36
Looks good, I put a second answer that (numerically) supports exactly your conclusion.
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:41
Sorry about delay. I had to go do some last minute shopping before the grocery store closes. I will NOT spend another day without missus' freshly baked bread.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:19
There's a typo in the factorization. It should say $$a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).$$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:22
Thanks @saulspatz!
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:23
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Solutions exist for all primes $pge5,pneq7$.
As the OP observed, we have the Vieta relation $x+y+z=0$ as $x,y,z$ are the zeros of the cubic
$$
P(T)=T^3+T+c=(T-x)(T-y)(T-z)
$$
in the field $Bbb{F}_p$. Here $-c=-xyz$ is the shared value of $x^3+x,y^3+y$ and $z^3+z$ (treated as elements of $Bbb{F}_p$ turning congruences into equalities).
The relation $z=-x-y$ takes care of the quadratic term, and
we are well placed to take advantage of the degree of freedom to select $c$ any which way we wish. Let's concentrate on the linear term! Expanding $(T-x)(T-y)(T+x+y)$ tells us that
$$
(T-x)(T-y)(T+x+y)=T^3-T(x^2+xy+y^2)-xyz,
$$
so we want to be able to choose distinct elements $x,yinBbb{F}_p$ such that $x^2+xy+y^2=-1$.
This is possible whenever $p>3$.
Assume first that $pequiv1pmod3$. In this case there is a primitive cubic root of unity $omegainBbb{F}_p$. It satisfies the equation
$$
omega^2+omega+1=0.
$$
And that relation gives us the factorization
$$
a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).
$$
So we can select any two numbers $c,dinBbb{F}_p$ such that $cd=-1$. Then the linear system
$$
left{begin{array}{lcl}
a-omega b&=&c\
a-omega^2b&=&d
end{array}right.
$$
has a unique solution $(a,b)$. After all, its determinant is $omega-omega^2neq0$.
Then assume that $pequiv-1pmod3$. In this case $omega$ only exists in the extension field $Bbb{F}_{p^2}$. But, in that case we are dealing with the norm map
$$
N:Bbb{F}_{p^2}toBbb{F}_p, a-bomegamapsto (a-bomega)(a-bomega^2)=a^2+ab+b^2.
$$
By elementary properties of finite fields the norm is surjective, and takes each non-zero value in $Bbb{F}_p$ exactly $p+1$ times. In particular, there are $p+1$ pairs $(a,b)$ such that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$.
The above argument did not concern the possibility that some of $x,y,z$ may be equal (i.e. $P(T)$ has a multiple root for the resulting $c$). If $x=y$, then $x^2+xy+y^2=3x^2$. If $-1/3$ is a quadratic residue, we need to rule out two possible values of $x$. If $x=-y-x$ then $y=-2x$, and again $3x^2=-1$. Finally, if $y=-y-x$ then $x=-2y$ we need to rule the solutions of $3y^2=-1$.
At most six pairs $(x,y)$ were ruled out. If $p>7$ then in the first case the number of pairs $(c,d)$ such that $cd=-1$ is high enough to leave some solutions. All the cases where we had repetitions among ${x,y,-x-y}$ lead to the presence of a square root of $-3inBbb{F}_p$, so the second case of $pequiv-1pmod 3$ is not affected.
The claim follows.
It may be worth noting that $p=7$ fails precisely because all the solutions of $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$, namely $(a,b)in{(1,3),(3,1),(3,3),(4,4),(4,6),(6,4)}$ lead to repetitions among ${a,b,-a-b}$. None of the six solutions of $cd=-1$ work!
Solutions exist for all primes $pge5,pneq7$.
As the OP observed, we have the Vieta relation $x+y+z=0$ as $x,y,z$ are the zeros of the cubic
$$
P(T)=T^3+T+c=(T-x)(T-y)(T-z)
$$
in the field $Bbb{F}_p$. Here $-c=-xyz$ is the shared value of $x^3+x,y^3+y$ and $z^3+z$ (treated as elements of $Bbb{F}_p$ turning congruences into equalities).
The relation $z=-x-y$ takes care of the quadratic term, and
we are well placed to take advantage of the degree of freedom to select $c$ any which way we wish. Let's concentrate on the linear term! Expanding $(T-x)(T-y)(T+x+y)$ tells us that
$$
(T-x)(T-y)(T+x+y)=T^3-T(x^2+xy+y^2)-xyz,
$$
so we want to be able to choose distinct elements $x,yinBbb{F}_p$ such that $x^2+xy+y^2=-1$.
This is possible whenever $p>3$.
Assume first that $pequiv1pmod3$. In this case there is a primitive cubic root of unity $omegainBbb{F}_p$. It satisfies the equation
$$
omega^2+omega+1=0.
$$
And that relation gives us the factorization
$$
a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).
$$
So we can select any two numbers $c,dinBbb{F}_p$ such that $cd=-1$. Then the linear system
$$
left{begin{array}{lcl}
a-omega b&=&c\
a-omega^2b&=&d
end{array}right.
$$
has a unique solution $(a,b)$. After all, its determinant is $omega-omega^2neq0$.
Then assume that $pequiv-1pmod3$. In this case $omega$ only exists in the extension field $Bbb{F}_{p^2}$. But, in that case we are dealing with the norm map
$$
N:Bbb{F}_{p^2}toBbb{F}_p, a-bomegamapsto (a-bomega)(a-bomega^2)=a^2+ab+b^2.
$$
By elementary properties of finite fields the norm is surjective, and takes each non-zero value in $Bbb{F}_p$ exactly $p+1$ times. In particular, there are $p+1$ pairs $(a,b)$ such that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$.
The above argument did not concern the possibility that some of $x,y,z$ may be equal (i.e. $P(T)$ has a multiple root for the resulting $c$). If $x=y$, then $x^2+xy+y^2=3x^2$. If $-1/3$ is a quadratic residue, we need to rule out two possible values of $x$. If $x=-y-x$ then $y=-2x$, and again $3x^2=-1$. Finally, if $y=-y-x$ then $x=-2y$ we need to rule the solutions of $3y^2=-1$.
At most six pairs $(x,y)$ were ruled out. If $p>7$ then in the first case the number of pairs $(c,d)$ such that $cd=-1$ is high enough to leave some solutions. All the cases where we had repetitions among ${x,y,-x-y}$ lead to the presence of a square root of $-3inBbb{F}_p$, so the second case of $pequiv-1pmod 3$ is not affected.
The claim follows.
It may be worth noting that $p=7$ fails precisely because all the solutions of $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$, namely $(a,b)in{(1,3),(3,1),(3,3),(4,4),(4,6),(6,4)}$ lead to repetitions among ${a,b,-a-b}$. None of the six solutions of $cd=-1$ work!
edited Nov 24 at 19:36
answered Nov 24 at 18:30
Jyrki Lahtonen
107k12166365
107k12166365
I will add the details about $x,y,z$ being distinct later. Sorry about the pause. Missus needs me now.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:36
Looks good, I put a second answer that (numerically) supports exactly your conclusion.
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:41
Sorry about delay. I had to go do some last minute shopping before the grocery store closes. I will NOT spend another day without missus' freshly baked bread.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:19
There's a typo in the factorization. It should say $$a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).$$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:22
Thanks @saulspatz!
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:23
add a comment |
I will add the details about $x,y,z$ being distinct later. Sorry about the pause. Missus needs me now.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:36
Looks good, I put a second answer that (numerically) supports exactly your conclusion.
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:41
Sorry about delay. I had to go do some last minute shopping before the grocery store closes. I will NOT spend another day without missus' freshly baked bread.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:19
There's a typo in the factorization. It should say $$a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).$$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:22
Thanks @saulspatz!
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:23
I will add the details about $x,y,z$ being distinct later. Sorry about the pause. Missus needs me now.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:36
I will add the details about $x,y,z$ being distinct later. Sorry about the pause. Missus needs me now.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:36
Looks good, I put a second answer that (numerically) supports exactly your conclusion.
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:41
Looks good, I put a second answer that (numerically) supports exactly your conclusion.
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:41
Sorry about delay. I had to go do some last minute shopping before the grocery store closes. I will NOT spend another day without missus' freshly baked bread.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:19
Sorry about delay. I had to go do some last minute shopping before the grocery store closes. I will NOT spend another day without missus' freshly baked bread.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:19
There's a typo in the factorization. It should say $$a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).$$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:22
There's a typo in the factorization. It should say $$a^2+ab+b^2=(a-omega b)(a-omega^2b).$$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:22
Thanks @saulspatz!
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:23
Thanks @saulspatz!
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 19:23
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
well, if $p > 31$ and we can express
$$ p = u^2 + uv + 8 v^2 $$
with integers, then there are three distinct solutions to $t^3 + t equiv -1 pmod p$
31, 47, 67, 131, 149, 173, 227, 283, 293, 349,
379, 431, 521, 577, 607, 617, 653, 811, 839, 853,
857, 919, 937, 971, 1031, 1063, 1117, 1187, 1213, 1237,
1259, 1303, 1327, 1451, 1493, 1523, 1559, 1583, 1619, 1663,
1721, 1723, 1741, 1879, 1931, 1973, 1993, 2003, 2017, 2153,
2273, 2333, 2341,
=============================================
? p = 47
%5 = 47
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%6 =
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(12, 47) 1]
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(13, 47) 1]
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(22, 47) 1]
? p = 67
%7 = 67
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%8 =
[ Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(4, 67) 1]
[ Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(9, 67) 1]
[Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(54, 67) 1]
? p=131
%9 = 131
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%10 =
[ Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(56, 131) 1]
[ Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(80, 131) 1]
[Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(126, 131) 1]
? p=149
%11 = 149
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%12 =
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(11, 149) 1]
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(56, 149) 1]
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(82, 149) 1]
?
1
I was expecting you to show up :-)
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:31
@Jyrki, It seems that an odd prime $p$ has three distinct roots for some $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p,$ with some $c = c(p),$ unless $p = 3,7.$ I think that is what is being asked... will post separate answer with illustration
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:34
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
well, if $p > 31$ and we can express
$$ p = u^2 + uv + 8 v^2 $$
with integers, then there are three distinct solutions to $t^3 + t equiv -1 pmod p$
31, 47, 67, 131, 149, 173, 227, 283, 293, 349,
379, 431, 521, 577, 607, 617, 653, 811, 839, 853,
857, 919, 937, 971, 1031, 1063, 1117, 1187, 1213, 1237,
1259, 1303, 1327, 1451, 1493, 1523, 1559, 1583, 1619, 1663,
1721, 1723, 1741, 1879, 1931, 1973, 1993, 2003, 2017, 2153,
2273, 2333, 2341,
=============================================
? p = 47
%5 = 47
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%6 =
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(12, 47) 1]
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(13, 47) 1]
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(22, 47) 1]
? p = 67
%7 = 67
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%8 =
[ Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(4, 67) 1]
[ Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(9, 67) 1]
[Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(54, 67) 1]
? p=131
%9 = 131
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%10 =
[ Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(56, 131) 1]
[ Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(80, 131) 1]
[Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(126, 131) 1]
? p=149
%11 = 149
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%12 =
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(11, 149) 1]
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(56, 149) 1]
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(82, 149) 1]
?
1
I was expecting you to show up :-)
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:31
@Jyrki, It seems that an odd prime $p$ has three distinct roots for some $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p,$ with some $c = c(p),$ unless $p = 3,7.$ I think that is what is being asked... will post separate answer with illustration
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:34
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
well, if $p > 31$ and we can express
$$ p = u^2 + uv + 8 v^2 $$
with integers, then there are three distinct solutions to $t^3 + t equiv -1 pmod p$
31, 47, 67, 131, 149, 173, 227, 283, 293, 349,
379, 431, 521, 577, 607, 617, 653, 811, 839, 853,
857, 919, 937, 971, 1031, 1063, 1117, 1187, 1213, 1237,
1259, 1303, 1327, 1451, 1493, 1523, 1559, 1583, 1619, 1663,
1721, 1723, 1741, 1879, 1931, 1973, 1993, 2003, 2017, 2153,
2273, 2333, 2341,
=============================================
? p = 47
%5 = 47
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%6 =
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(12, 47) 1]
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(13, 47) 1]
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(22, 47) 1]
? p = 67
%7 = 67
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%8 =
[ Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(4, 67) 1]
[ Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(9, 67) 1]
[Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(54, 67) 1]
? p=131
%9 = 131
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%10 =
[ Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(56, 131) 1]
[ Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(80, 131) 1]
[Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(126, 131) 1]
? p=149
%11 = 149
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%12 =
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(11, 149) 1]
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(56, 149) 1]
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(82, 149) 1]
?
well, if $p > 31$ and we can express
$$ p = u^2 + uv + 8 v^2 $$
with integers, then there are three distinct solutions to $t^3 + t equiv -1 pmod p$
31, 47, 67, 131, 149, 173, 227, 283, 293, 349,
379, 431, 521, 577, 607, 617, 653, 811, 839, 853,
857, 919, 937, 971, 1031, 1063, 1117, 1187, 1213, 1237,
1259, 1303, 1327, 1451, 1493, 1523, 1559, 1583, 1619, 1663,
1721, 1723, 1741, 1879, 1931, 1973, 1993, 2003, 2017, 2153,
2273, 2333, 2341,
=============================================
? p = 47
%5 = 47
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%6 =
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(12, 47) 1]
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(13, 47) 1]
[Mod(1, 47)*x + Mod(22, 47) 1]
? p = 67
%7 = 67
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%8 =
[ Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(4, 67) 1]
[ Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(9, 67) 1]
[Mod(1, 67)*x + Mod(54, 67) 1]
? p=131
%9 = 131
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%10 =
[ Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(56, 131) 1]
[ Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(80, 131) 1]
[Mod(1, 131)*x + Mod(126, 131) 1]
? p=149
%11 = 149
? factormod( x^3 + x + 1, p)
%12 =
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(11, 149) 1]
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(56, 149) 1]
[Mod(1, 149)*x + Mod(82, 149) 1]
?
answered Nov 24 at 17:48
Will Jagy
101k598198
101k598198
1
I was expecting you to show up :-)
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:31
@Jyrki, It seems that an odd prime $p$ has three distinct roots for some $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p,$ with some $c = c(p),$ unless $p = 3,7.$ I think that is what is being asked... will post separate answer with illustration
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:34
add a comment |
1
I was expecting you to show up :-)
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:31
@Jyrki, It seems that an odd prime $p$ has three distinct roots for some $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p,$ with some $c = c(p),$ unless $p = 3,7.$ I think that is what is being asked... will post separate answer with illustration
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:34
1
1
I was expecting you to show up :-)
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:31
I was expecting you to show up :-)
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 24 at 18:31
@Jyrki, It seems that an odd prime $p$ has three distinct roots for some $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p,$ with some $c = c(p),$ unless $p = 3,7.$ I think that is what is being asked... will post separate answer with illustration
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:34
@Jyrki, It seems that an odd prime $p$ has three distinct roots for some $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p,$ with some $c = c(p),$ unless $p = 3,7.$ I think that is what is being asked... will post separate answer with illustration
– Will Jagy
Nov 24 at 18:34
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
well, I checked pretty high for primes $p$ such that, for some fixed $c = c(p),$ the relation $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p$ has three distinct roots $pmod p.$ As far as I can tell, this always happens unless $p = 3,7$
There are some patterns behind the scenes. When $p equiv 1 pmod 4$ we can use $c=0.$ When Legendre symbol $(p|7)=1$ we can use $c=2.$ When $p = u^2 + uv + 8 v^2$ we can use $c=1.$ When $p = u^2 + uv + 62 v^2$ or $p = 8u^2 + 3uv + 8 v^2$ we can use $c=3.$ When $p = 2u^2 + 2uv + 55 v^2$ we can use $c=4.$
=====================
3 WOW
5 c: 0 roots: 0 2 3
7 WOW
11 c: 2 roots: 5 7 10
13 c: 0 roots: 0 5 8
17 c: 0 roots: 0 4 13
19 c: 8 roots: 3 4 12
23 c: 2 roots: 10 14 22
29 c: 0 roots: 0 12 17
31 c: 6 roots: 9 26 27
37 c: 0 roots: 0 6 31
41 c: 0 roots: 0 9 32
43 c: 2 roots: 19 25 42
47 c: 1 roots: 25 34 35
53 c: 0 roots: 0 23 30
59 c: 4 roots: 7 20 32
61 c: 0 roots: 0 11 50
67 c: 1 roots: 13 58 63
71 c: 2 roots: 32 40 70
73 c: 0 roots: 0 27 46
79 c: 2 roots: 13 67 78
83 c: 11 roots: 19 23 41
89 c: 0 roots: 0 34 55
97 c: 0 roots: 0 22 75
101 c: 0 roots: 0 10 91
103 c: 8 roots: 16 34 53
107 c: 2 roots: 49 59 106
109 c: 0 roots: 0 33 76
113 c: 0 roots: 0 15 98
127 c: 2 roots: 23 105 126
131 c: 1 roots: 5 51 75
137 c: 0 roots: 0 37 100
139 c: 4 roots: 32 48 59
149 c: 0 roots: 0 44 105
151 c: 2 roots: 70 82 150
======================
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
well, I checked pretty high for primes $p$ such that, for some fixed $c = c(p),$ the relation $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p$ has three distinct roots $pmod p.$ As far as I can tell, this always happens unless $p = 3,7$
There are some patterns behind the scenes. When $p equiv 1 pmod 4$ we can use $c=0.$ When Legendre symbol $(p|7)=1$ we can use $c=2.$ When $p = u^2 + uv + 8 v^2$ we can use $c=1.$ When $p = u^2 + uv + 62 v^2$ or $p = 8u^2 + 3uv + 8 v^2$ we can use $c=3.$ When $p = 2u^2 + 2uv + 55 v^2$ we can use $c=4.$
=====================
3 WOW
5 c: 0 roots: 0 2 3
7 WOW
11 c: 2 roots: 5 7 10
13 c: 0 roots: 0 5 8
17 c: 0 roots: 0 4 13
19 c: 8 roots: 3 4 12
23 c: 2 roots: 10 14 22
29 c: 0 roots: 0 12 17
31 c: 6 roots: 9 26 27
37 c: 0 roots: 0 6 31
41 c: 0 roots: 0 9 32
43 c: 2 roots: 19 25 42
47 c: 1 roots: 25 34 35
53 c: 0 roots: 0 23 30
59 c: 4 roots: 7 20 32
61 c: 0 roots: 0 11 50
67 c: 1 roots: 13 58 63
71 c: 2 roots: 32 40 70
73 c: 0 roots: 0 27 46
79 c: 2 roots: 13 67 78
83 c: 11 roots: 19 23 41
89 c: 0 roots: 0 34 55
97 c: 0 roots: 0 22 75
101 c: 0 roots: 0 10 91
103 c: 8 roots: 16 34 53
107 c: 2 roots: 49 59 106
109 c: 0 roots: 0 33 76
113 c: 0 roots: 0 15 98
127 c: 2 roots: 23 105 126
131 c: 1 roots: 5 51 75
137 c: 0 roots: 0 37 100
139 c: 4 roots: 32 48 59
149 c: 0 roots: 0 44 105
151 c: 2 roots: 70 82 150
======================
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
well, I checked pretty high for primes $p$ such that, for some fixed $c = c(p),$ the relation $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p$ has three distinct roots $pmod p.$ As far as I can tell, this always happens unless $p = 3,7$
There are some patterns behind the scenes. When $p equiv 1 pmod 4$ we can use $c=0.$ When Legendre symbol $(p|7)=1$ we can use $c=2.$ When $p = u^2 + uv + 8 v^2$ we can use $c=1.$ When $p = u^2 + uv + 62 v^2$ or $p = 8u^2 + 3uv + 8 v^2$ we can use $c=3.$ When $p = 2u^2 + 2uv + 55 v^2$ we can use $c=4.$
=====================
3 WOW
5 c: 0 roots: 0 2 3
7 WOW
11 c: 2 roots: 5 7 10
13 c: 0 roots: 0 5 8
17 c: 0 roots: 0 4 13
19 c: 8 roots: 3 4 12
23 c: 2 roots: 10 14 22
29 c: 0 roots: 0 12 17
31 c: 6 roots: 9 26 27
37 c: 0 roots: 0 6 31
41 c: 0 roots: 0 9 32
43 c: 2 roots: 19 25 42
47 c: 1 roots: 25 34 35
53 c: 0 roots: 0 23 30
59 c: 4 roots: 7 20 32
61 c: 0 roots: 0 11 50
67 c: 1 roots: 13 58 63
71 c: 2 roots: 32 40 70
73 c: 0 roots: 0 27 46
79 c: 2 roots: 13 67 78
83 c: 11 roots: 19 23 41
89 c: 0 roots: 0 34 55
97 c: 0 roots: 0 22 75
101 c: 0 roots: 0 10 91
103 c: 8 roots: 16 34 53
107 c: 2 roots: 49 59 106
109 c: 0 roots: 0 33 76
113 c: 0 roots: 0 15 98
127 c: 2 roots: 23 105 126
131 c: 1 roots: 5 51 75
137 c: 0 roots: 0 37 100
139 c: 4 roots: 32 48 59
149 c: 0 roots: 0 44 105
151 c: 2 roots: 70 82 150
======================
well, I checked pretty high for primes $p$ such that, for some fixed $c = c(p),$ the relation $x^3 + x + c equiv 0 pmod p$ has three distinct roots $pmod p.$ As far as I can tell, this always happens unless $p = 3,7$
There are some patterns behind the scenes. When $p equiv 1 pmod 4$ we can use $c=0.$ When Legendre symbol $(p|7)=1$ we can use $c=2.$ When $p = u^2 + uv + 8 v^2$ we can use $c=1.$ When $p = u^2 + uv + 62 v^2$ or $p = 8u^2 + 3uv + 8 v^2$ we can use $c=3.$ When $p = 2u^2 + 2uv + 55 v^2$ we can use $c=4.$
=====================
3 WOW
5 c: 0 roots: 0 2 3
7 WOW
11 c: 2 roots: 5 7 10
13 c: 0 roots: 0 5 8
17 c: 0 roots: 0 4 13
19 c: 8 roots: 3 4 12
23 c: 2 roots: 10 14 22
29 c: 0 roots: 0 12 17
31 c: 6 roots: 9 26 27
37 c: 0 roots: 0 6 31
41 c: 0 roots: 0 9 32
43 c: 2 roots: 19 25 42
47 c: 1 roots: 25 34 35
53 c: 0 roots: 0 23 30
59 c: 4 roots: 7 20 32
61 c: 0 roots: 0 11 50
67 c: 1 roots: 13 58 63
71 c: 2 roots: 32 40 70
73 c: 0 roots: 0 27 46
79 c: 2 roots: 13 67 78
83 c: 11 roots: 19 23 41
89 c: 0 roots: 0 34 55
97 c: 0 roots: 0 22 75
101 c: 0 roots: 0 10 91
103 c: 8 roots: 16 34 53
107 c: 2 roots: 49 59 106
109 c: 0 roots: 0 33 76
113 c: 0 roots: 0 15 98
127 c: 2 roots: 23 105 126
131 c: 1 roots: 5 51 75
137 c: 0 roots: 0 37 100
139 c: 4 roots: 32 48 59
149 c: 0 roots: 0 44 105
151 c: 2 roots: 70 82 150
======================
edited Nov 24 at 19:39
answered Nov 24 at 18:38
Will Jagy
101k598198
101k598198
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
This is not true. Consider $x=0$, $y=2$, and $z=3$ mod $5$ (this is a special case of saulspatz counterexample).
Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. What are the conditions of $p$ so that the statement is true ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:34
Not sure I'll make any progress on that problem, but I'll post any that I make!
– Isaac Browne
Nov 24 at 17:36
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
This is not true. Consider $x=0$, $y=2$, and $z=3$ mod $5$ (this is a special case of saulspatz counterexample).
Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. What are the conditions of $p$ so that the statement is true ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:34
Not sure I'll make any progress on that problem, but I'll post any that I make!
– Isaac Browne
Nov 24 at 17:36
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
This is not true. Consider $x=0$, $y=2$, and $z=3$ mod $5$ (this is a special case of saulspatz counterexample).
This is not true. Consider $x=0$, $y=2$, and $z=3$ mod $5$ (this is a special case of saulspatz counterexample).
answered Nov 24 at 16:32
Isaac Browne
4,60731132
4,60731132
Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. What are the conditions of $p$ so that the statement is true ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:34
Not sure I'll make any progress on that problem, but I'll post any that I make!
– Isaac Browne
Nov 24 at 17:36
add a comment |
Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. What are the conditions of $p$ so that the statement is true ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:34
Not sure I'll make any progress on that problem, but I'll post any that I make!
– Isaac Browne
Nov 24 at 17:36
Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. What are the conditions of $p$ so that the statement is true ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:34
Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. What are the conditions of $p$ so that the statement is true ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:34
Not sure I'll make any progress on that problem, but I'll post any that I make!
– Isaac Browne
Nov 24 at 17:36
Not sure I'll make any progress on that problem, but I'll post any that I make!
– Isaac Browne
Nov 24 at 17:36
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
If $p=n^2+1$ (such as $5,17,37dots$), then $x=0, y=n, z=(p-n)$ will solve your equivalence with all three terms congruent to $0$.
$x^3+x=0; y^3+y=n(n^2+1)=npequiv 0 mod{p}; z^3+z=(p-n)(p^2-2np+n^2+1)=(p-n)(p^2-2np+p)=p(p-n)(p-2n+1)equiv 0mod{p}$
$p$ cannot be of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv 3mod{4}$.
Yes, $p$ is not of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv3pmod{4},$ but that just shows your counterexample doesn't work in that case. It doesn't show there isn't some other counterexample.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:27
@saulspatz I agree. I showed a class of counterexamples, and I made plain that $pequiv 3mod{4}$ will not give counterexamples in that class. There may be other isolated counterexamples, or perhaps even classes of counterexamples, that my answer has not identified.
– Keith Backman
Nov 24 at 17:38
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
If $p=n^2+1$ (such as $5,17,37dots$), then $x=0, y=n, z=(p-n)$ will solve your equivalence with all three terms congruent to $0$.
$x^3+x=0; y^3+y=n(n^2+1)=npequiv 0 mod{p}; z^3+z=(p-n)(p^2-2np+n^2+1)=(p-n)(p^2-2np+p)=p(p-n)(p-2n+1)equiv 0mod{p}$
$p$ cannot be of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv 3mod{4}$.
Yes, $p$ is not of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv3pmod{4},$ but that just shows your counterexample doesn't work in that case. It doesn't show there isn't some other counterexample.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:27
@saulspatz I agree. I showed a class of counterexamples, and I made plain that $pequiv 3mod{4}$ will not give counterexamples in that class. There may be other isolated counterexamples, or perhaps even classes of counterexamples, that my answer has not identified.
– Keith Backman
Nov 24 at 17:38
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
If $p=n^2+1$ (such as $5,17,37dots$), then $x=0, y=n, z=(p-n)$ will solve your equivalence with all three terms congruent to $0$.
$x^3+x=0; y^3+y=n(n^2+1)=npequiv 0 mod{p}; z^3+z=(p-n)(p^2-2np+n^2+1)=(p-n)(p^2-2np+p)=p(p-n)(p-2n+1)equiv 0mod{p}$
$p$ cannot be of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv 3mod{4}$.
If $p=n^2+1$ (such as $5,17,37dots$), then $x=0, y=n, z=(p-n)$ will solve your equivalence with all three terms congruent to $0$.
$x^3+x=0; y^3+y=n(n^2+1)=npequiv 0 mod{p}; z^3+z=(p-n)(p^2-2np+n^2+1)=(p-n)(p^2-2np+p)=p(p-n)(p-2n+1)equiv 0mod{p}$
$p$ cannot be of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv 3mod{4}$.
edited Nov 24 at 17:22
answered Nov 24 at 17:13
Keith Backman
8501510
8501510
Yes, $p$ is not of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv3pmod{4},$ but that just shows your counterexample doesn't work in that case. It doesn't show there isn't some other counterexample.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:27
@saulspatz I agree. I showed a class of counterexamples, and I made plain that $pequiv 3mod{4}$ will not give counterexamples in that class. There may be other isolated counterexamples, or perhaps even classes of counterexamples, that my answer has not identified.
– Keith Backman
Nov 24 at 17:38
add a comment |
Yes, $p$ is not of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv3pmod{4},$ but that just shows your counterexample doesn't work in that case. It doesn't show there isn't some other counterexample.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:27
@saulspatz I agree. I showed a class of counterexamples, and I made plain that $pequiv 3mod{4}$ will not give counterexamples in that class. There may be other isolated counterexamples, or perhaps even classes of counterexamples, that my answer has not identified.
– Keith Backman
Nov 24 at 17:38
Yes, $p$ is not of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv3pmod{4},$ but that just shows your counterexample doesn't work in that case. It doesn't show there isn't some other counterexample.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:27
Yes, $p$ is not of the form $n^2+1$ if $pequiv3pmod{4},$ but that just shows your counterexample doesn't work in that case. It doesn't show there isn't some other counterexample.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:27
@saulspatz I agree. I showed a class of counterexamples, and I made plain that $pequiv 3mod{4}$ will not give counterexamples in that class. There may be other isolated counterexamples, or perhaps even classes of counterexamples, that my answer has not identified.
– Keith Backman
Nov 24 at 17:38
@saulspatz I agree. I showed a class of counterexamples, and I made plain that $pequiv 3mod{4}$ will not give counterexamples in that class. There may be other isolated counterexamples, or perhaps even classes of counterexamples, that my answer has not identified.
– Keith Backman
Nov 24 at 17:38
add a comment |
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1
If $-1$ is a quadratic residue modulo the odd prime $p$ say $y^2equiv-1pmod{p}$ then $0, y$ and $-y$ are distinct solutions to $x^3+x=0$
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:24
@saulspatz Thanks. However if $p equiv 3 (mod 4)$ then $-1$ is not a quadratic residue modulo $p$. How can I progress ?
– rice
Nov 24 at 16:33
I was just confirming your intuition that it can't be done unless $pequiv3pmod{4}$ I don't know how to prove it can be done in this case. We want to say there's a cubic of the form $x^3+x+C$ over GF($p$) with $3$ distinct roots whenever $pequiv3pmod{4}$. I'm not sure how to proceed.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 16:43
1
All computations are in GF($p$). If $(x-a)(x-b)(x-c)=x^3+x+C,$ then $a+b+c=0,ab+ac+bc=1$ so that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1.$ It would be enough to show that $a^2+ab+b^2=-1$ has no solutions for $ane b, pequiv3pmod{4}$ Computer experiments with small primes support this hypothesis, but I don't know how to prove it.
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 17:45
1
@WillJagy There was a mistake in my own script. I've been wondering how you and Jyrki could have gotten results diametrically opposed to mine, but I see now that I left out a pair of parentheses!
– saulspatz
Nov 24 at 19:06