Why is assigning value to bit-field doesn't give same value back?
up vote
31
down vote
favorite
I saw below code in this Quora post:
#include <stdio.h>
struct mystruct { int enabled:1; };
int main()
{
struct mystruct s;
s.enabled = 1;
if(s.enabled == 1)
printf("Is enabledn"); // --> we think this to be printed
else
printf("Is disabled !!n");
}
In both C & C++, the output of the code is unexpectedly,
Is disabled !!
Though the "sign bit" related explanation is given in that post, I am unable to understand, how is it possible that we set something and then it doesn't reflect as it is.
Can someone give more elaborate explanation?
c++ c bit-fields signed-integer implementation-defined-behavior
add a comment |
up vote
31
down vote
favorite
I saw below code in this Quora post:
#include <stdio.h>
struct mystruct { int enabled:1; };
int main()
{
struct mystruct s;
s.enabled = 1;
if(s.enabled == 1)
printf("Is enabledn"); // --> we think this to be printed
else
printf("Is disabled !!n");
}
In both C & C++, the output of the code is unexpectedly,
Is disabled !!
Though the "sign bit" related explanation is given in that post, I am unable to understand, how is it possible that we set something and then it doesn't reflect as it is.
Can someone give more elaborate explanation?
c++ c bit-fields signed-integer implementation-defined-behavior
26
Since the bitfield is declared asint
i think it only can hold the values0
and-1
.
– Osiris
11 hours ago
3
just think of it how int stores -1. All bits are set to 1. Hence, if you only have one bit it clearly has to be -1. So 1 and -1 in the 1 bit int are the same. Change the check to 'if (s.enabled != 0)' and it works. Because 0 it can't be.
– Jürgen
11 hours ago
It is true that these rules are the same in C and C++. But according to the tag usage policies, we should only tag this as C and refrain from cross-tagging when not needed. I'll remove the C++ part, it should not affect any posted answers.
– Lundin
10 hours ago
1
Have you tried changing it tostruct mystruct { unsigned int enabled:1; };
?
– ChatterOne
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
31
down vote
favorite
up vote
31
down vote
favorite
I saw below code in this Quora post:
#include <stdio.h>
struct mystruct { int enabled:1; };
int main()
{
struct mystruct s;
s.enabled = 1;
if(s.enabled == 1)
printf("Is enabledn"); // --> we think this to be printed
else
printf("Is disabled !!n");
}
In both C & C++, the output of the code is unexpectedly,
Is disabled !!
Though the "sign bit" related explanation is given in that post, I am unable to understand, how is it possible that we set something and then it doesn't reflect as it is.
Can someone give more elaborate explanation?
c++ c bit-fields signed-integer implementation-defined-behavior
I saw below code in this Quora post:
#include <stdio.h>
struct mystruct { int enabled:1; };
int main()
{
struct mystruct s;
s.enabled = 1;
if(s.enabled == 1)
printf("Is enabledn"); // --> we think this to be printed
else
printf("Is disabled !!n");
}
In both C & C++, the output of the code is unexpectedly,
Is disabled !!
Though the "sign bit" related explanation is given in that post, I am unable to understand, how is it possible that we set something and then it doesn't reflect as it is.
Can someone give more elaborate explanation?
c++ c bit-fields signed-integer implementation-defined-behavior
c++ c bit-fields signed-integer implementation-defined-behavior
edited 16 mins ago
asked 12 hours ago
iammilind
44k19123248
44k19123248
26
Since the bitfield is declared asint
i think it only can hold the values0
and-1
.
– Osiris
11 hours ago
3
just think of it how int stores -1. All bits are set to 1. Hence, if you only have one bit it clearly has to be -1. So 1 and -1 in the 1 bit int are the same. Change the check to 'if (s.enabled != 0)' and it works. Because 0 it can't be.
– Jürgen
11 hours ago
It is true that these rules are the same in C and C++. But according to the tag usage policies, we should only tag this as C and refrain from cross-tagging when not needed. I'll remove the C++ part, it should not affect any posted answers.
– Lundin
10 hours ago
1
Have you tried changing it tostruct mystruct { unsigned int enabled:1; };
?
– ChatterOne
10 hours ago
add a comment |
26
Since the bitfield is declared asint
i think it only can hold the values0
and-1
.
– Osiris
11 hours ago
3
just think of it how int stores -1. All bits are set to 1. Hence, if you only have one bit it clearly has to be -1. So 1 and -1 in the 1 bit int are the same. Change the check to 'if (s.enabled != 0)' and it works. Because 0 it can't be.
– Jürgen
11 hours ago
It is true that these rules are the same in C and C++. But according to the tag usage policies, we should only tag this as C and refrain from cross-tagging when not needed. I'll remove the C++ part, it should not affect any posted answers.
– Lundin
10 hours ago
1
Have you tried changing it tostruct mystruct { unsigned int enabled:1; };
?
– ChatterOne
10 hours ago
26
26
Since the bitfield is declared as
int
i think it only can hold the values 0
and -1
.– Osiris
11 hours ago
Since the bitfield is declared as
int
i think it only can hold the values 0
and -1
.– Osiris
11 hours ago
3
3
just think of it how int stores -1. All bits are set to 1. Hence, if you only have one bit it clearly has to be -1. So 1 and -1 in the 1 bit int are the same. Change the check to 'if (s.enabled != 0)' and it works. Because 0 it can't be.
– Jürgen
11 hours ago
just think of it how int stores -1. All bits are set to 1. Hence, if you only have one bit it clearly has to be -1. So 1 and -1 in the 1 bit int are the same. Change the check to 'if (s.enabled != 0)' and it works. Because 0 it can't be.
– Jürgen
11 hours ago
It is true that these rules are the same in C and C++. But according to the tag usage policies, we should only tag this as C and refrain from cross-tagging when not needed. I'll remove the C++ part, it should not affect any posted answers.
– Lundin
10 hours ago
It is true that these rules are the same in C and C++. But according to the tag usage policies, we should only tag this as C and refrain from cross-tagging when not needed. I'll remove the C++ part, it should not affect any posted answers.
– Lundin
10 hours ago
1
1
Have you tried changing it to
struct mystruct { unsigned int enabled:1; };
?– ChatterOne
10 hours ago
Have you tried changing it to
struct mystruct { unsigned int enabled:1; };
?– ChatterOne
10 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
32
down vote
Bit-fields are incredibly poorly defined by the standard. Given this code struct mystruct {int enabled:1;};
, then we don't know:
- How much space this occupies - if there are padding bits/bytes and where they are located in memory.
- Where the bit is located in memory. Not defined and also depends on endianess.
- Whether an
int:n
bitfield is to be regarded as signed or unsigned.
Regarding the last part, C17 6.7.2.1/10 says:
A bit-field is interpreted as having a signed or unsigned integer type consisting of the
specified number of bits 125)
Non-normative note explaining the above:
125) As specified in 6.7.2 above, if the actual type specifier used is
int
or a typedef-name defined asint
,
then it is implementation-defined whether the bit-field is signed or unsigned.
In case the bitfield is to be regarded as signed int
and you make a bit of size 1
, then there is no room for data, only for the sign bit. This is the reason why your program might give weird results on some compilers.
Good practice:
- Never use bit-fields for any purpose.
- Avoid using signed
int
type for any form of bit manipulation.
1
At work we have static_asserts on the size and address of bitfields just to make sure that they are not padded. We use bitfields for hardware registers in our firmware.
– Michael
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
I am unable to understand, how is it possible that we set something and then it doesn't show up as it is.
Are you asking why it compiles vs. gives you an error?
Yes, it should ideally give you an error. And it does, if you use your compiler's warnings. In GCC, with -Werror -Wall -pedantic
:
main.cpp: In function 'int main()':
main.cpp:7:15: error: overflow in conversion from 'int' to 'signed char:1'
changes value from '1' to '-1' [-Werror=overflow]
s.enabled = 1;
^
The reasoning for why this is left up to being implementation-defined vs. an error may have more to do with historical usages, where requiring a cast would mean breaking old code. The authors of the standard may believe warnings were enough to pick up the slack for those concerned.
To throw in some prescriptivism, I'll echo @Lundin's statement: "Never use bit-fields for any purpose." If you have the kind of good reasons to get low-level and specific about your memory layout details that would get you to thinking you needed bitfields in the first place, the other associated requirements you almost certainly have will run up against their underspecification.
(TL;DR - If you're sophisticated enough to legitimately "need" bit-fields, they're not well-defined enough to serve you.)
7
The authors of the standard were on holidays the day the bit-field chapter was designed. So the janitor had to do it. There is no rationale about anything regarding how bit-fields are designed.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
4
There is no coherent technical rationale. But that leads me to conclude that there was a political rationale: to avoid making any of the existing code or implementations incorrect. But the result is that there's very little about bitfields that you can rely upon.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
1
@JohnBollinger There was definitely politics in place, that caused a lot of damage to C90. I once spoke with a member of the committee who explained the source of lots of the crap - the ISO standard could not be allowed to favour certain existing technologies. This is why we are stuck with moronic things like support for 1's complement and signed magnitude, implementation-defined signedness ofchar
, support for bytes that aren't 8 bits etc etc. They weren't allowed to give moronic computers a market disadvantage.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
@Lundin It would be interesting to see a collection of writeups and post-mortems from people who believed tradeoffs had been made in error, and why. I wonder how much study of these "we did that last time, and it did/didn't work out" has become institutional knowledge to inform the next such case, vs. just stories in people's heads.
– HostileFork
11 hours ago
1
This is still listed as point no. 1 of the original principles of C in the C2x Charter: "Existing code is important, existing implementations are not." ... "no one implementation was held up as the exemplar by which to define C: It is assumed that all existing implementations must change somewhat to conform to the Standard."
– Leushenko
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
This is implementation defined behavior. I am making the assumption that the machines you are running this on use twos-compliment signed integers and treat int
in this case as a signed integer to explain why you don't enter if true part of the if statement.
struct mystruct { int enabled:1; };
declares enable
as a 1 bit bit-field. Since it is signed, the valid values are -1
and 0
. Setting the field to 1
overflows that bit going back to -1
(this is undefined behavior)
Essentially when dealing with a signed bit-field the max value is 2^(bits - 1) - 1
which is 0
in this case.
"ince it is signed, the valid values are -1 and 0". Who said it is signed? It's not defined but implementation-defined behavior. If it is signed, then the valid values are-
and+
. 2's complement doesn't matter.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
3
@Lundin A 1 bit twos compliment number only has two possible values. If the bit is set, then since it is the sign bit, it is -1. If it isn't set then it is "positive" 0. I know this is implementation defined, I'm just explaining the results using the most common implantation
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
The key here is rather that 2's complement or any other signed form cannot function with a single bit available.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
@JohnBollinger I understand that. That's why I have the discliamer that this is implementation defined. At least for the big 3 they all treatint
as signed in this case. It is a shame that bit-fields are so under specified. It's basically here is this feature, consult your compiler on how to use it.
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
1
@Lundin, the standard's wording for the representation of signed integers can perfectly well handle the case where there are zero value bits, at least in two of the three allowed alternatives. This works because it assigns (negative) place values to sign bits, rather than giving them an algorithmic interpretation.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
You could think of it as that in the 2's complement system, the left-most bit is the sign bit. Any signed integer with the left-most bit set is thus a negative value.
If you have a 1-bit signed integer, it has only the sign bit. So assigning 1
to that single bit can only set the sign bit. So, when reading it back, the value is interpreted as negative and so is -1.
The values a 1 bit signed integer can hold is -2^(n-1)= -2^(1-1)= -2^0= -1
and 2^n-1= 2^1-1=0
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
32
down vote
Bit-fields are incredibly poorly defined by the standard. Given this code struct mystruct {int enabled:1;};
, then we don't know:
- How much space this occupies - if there are padding bits/bytes and where they are located in memory.
- Where the bit is located in memory. Not defined and also depends on endianess.
- Whether an
int:n
bitfield is to be regarded as signed or unsigned.
Regarding the last part, C17 6.7.2.1/10 says:
A bit-field is interpreted as having a signed or unsigned integer type consisting of the
specified number of bits 125)
Non-normative note explaining the above:
125) As specified in 6.7.2 above, if the actual type specifier used is
int
or a typedef-name defined asint
,
then it is implementation-defined whether the bit-field is signed or unsigned.
In case the bitfield is to be regarded as signed int
and you make a bit of size 1
, then there is no room for data, only for the sign bit. This is the reason why your program might give weird results on some compilers.
Good practice:
- Never use bit-fields for any purpose.
- Avoid using signed
int
type for any form of bit manipulation.
1
At work we have static_asserts on the size and address of bitfields just to make sure that they are not padded. We use bitfields for hardware registers in our firmware.
– Michael
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
32
down vote
Bit-fields are incredibly poorly defined by the standard. Given this code struct mystruct {int enabled:1;};
, then we don't know:
- How much space this occupies - if there are padding bits/bytes and where they are located in memory.
- Where the bit is located in memory. Not defined and also depends on endianess.
- Whether an
int:n
bitfield is to be regarded as signed or unsigned.
Regarding the last part, C17 6.7.2.1/10 says:
A bit-field is interpreted as having a signed or unsigned integer type consisting of the
specified number of bits 125)
Non-normative note explaining the above:
125) As specified in 6.7.2 above, if the actual type specifier used is
int
or a typedef-name defined asint
,
then it is implementation-defined whether the bit-field is signed or unsigned.
In case the bitfield is to be regarded as signed int
and you make a bit of size 1
, then there is no room for data, only for the sign bit. This is the reason why your program might give weird results on some compilers.
Good practice:
- Never use bit-fields for any purpose.
- Avoid using signed
int
type for any form of bit manipulation.
1
At work we have static_asserts on the size and address of bitfields just to make sure that they are not padded. We use bitfields for hardware registers in our firmware.
– Michael
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
32
down vote
up vote
32
down vote
Bit-fields are incredibly poorly defined by the standard. Given this code struct mystruct {int enabled:1;};
, then we don't know:
- How much space this occupies - if there are padding bits/bytes and where they are located in memory.
- Where the bit is located in memory. Not defined and also depends on endianess.
- Whether an
int:n
bitfield is to be regarded as signed or unsigned.
Regarding the last part, C17 6.7.2.1/10 says:
A bit-field is interpreted as having a signed or unsigned integer type consisting of the
specified number of bits 125)
Non-normative note explaining the above:
125) As specified in 6.7.2 above, if the actual type specifier used is
int
or a typedef-name defined asint
,
then it is implementation-defined whether the bit-field is signed or unsigned.
In case the bitfield is to be regarded as signed int
and you make a bit of size 1
, then there is no room for data, only for the sign bit. This is the reason why your program might give weird results on some compilers.
Good practice:
- Never use bit-fields for any purpose.
- Avoid using signed
int
type for any form of bit manipulation.
Bit-fields are incredibly poorly defined by the standard. Given this code struct mystruct {int enabled:1;};
, then we don't know:
- How much space this occupies - if there are padding bits/bytes and where they are located in memory.
- Where the bit is located in memory. Not defined and also depends on endianess.
- Whether an
int:n
bitfield is to be regarded as signed or unsigned.
Regarding the last part, C17 6.7.2.1/10 says:
A bit-field is interpreted as having a signed or unsigned integer type consisting of the
specified number of bits 125)
Non-normative note explaining the above:
125) As specified in 6.7.2 above, if the actual type specifier used is
int
or a typedef-name defined asint
,
then it is implementation-defined whether the bit-field is signed or unsigned.
In case the bitfield is to be regarded as signed int
and you make a bit of size 1
, then there is no room for data, only for the sign bit. This is the reason why your program might give weird results on some compilers.
Good practice:
- Never use bit-fields for any purpose.
- Avoid using signed
int
type for any form of bit manipulation.
edited 11 hours ago
answered 11 hours ago
Lundin
106k17156260
106k17156260
1
At work we have static_asserts on the size and address of bitfields just to make sure that they are not padded. We use bitfields for hardware registers in our firmware.
– Michael
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1
At work we have static_asserts on the size and address of bitfields just to make sure that they are not padded. We use bitfields for hardware registers in our firmware.
– Michael
7 hours ago
1
1
At work we have static_asserts on the size and address of bitfields just to make sure that they are not padded. We use bitfields for hardware registers in our firmware.
– Michael
7 hours ago
At work we have static_asserts on the size and address of bitfields just to make sure that they are not padded. We use bitfields for hardware registers in our firmware.
– Michael
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
I am unable to understand, how is it possible that we set something and then it doesn't show up as it is.
Are you asking why it compiles vs. gives you an error?
Yes, it should ideally give you an error. And it does, if you use your compiler's warnings. In GCC, with -Werror -Wall -pedantic
:
main.cpp: In function 'int main()':
main.cpp:7:15: error: overflow in conversion from 'int' to 'signed char:1'
changes value from '1' to '-1' [-Werror=overflow]
s.enabled = 1;
^
The reasoning for why this is left up to being implementation-defined vs. an error may have more to do with historical usages, where requiring a cast would mean breaking old code. The authors of the standard may believe warnings were enough to pick up the slack for those concerned.
To throw in some prescriptivism, I'll echo @Lundin's statement: "Never use bit-fields for any purpose." If you have the kind of good reasons to get low-level and specific about your memory layout details that would get you to thinking you needed bitfields in the first place, the other associated requirements you almost certainly have will run up against their underspecification.
(TL;DR - If you're sophisticated enough to legitimately "need" bit-fields, they're not well-defined enough to serve you.)
7
The authors of the standard were on holidays the day the bit-field chapter was designed. So the janitor had to do it. There is no rationale about anything regarding how bit-fields are designed.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
4
There is no coherent technical rationale. But that leads me to conclude that there was a political rationale: to avoid making any of the existing code or implementations incorrect. But the result is that there's very little about bitfields that you can rely upon.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
1
@JohnBollinger There was definitely politics in place, that caused a lot of damage to C90. I once spoke with a member of the committee who explained the source of lots of the crap - the ISO standard could not be allowed to favour certain existing technologies. This is why we are stuck with moronic things like support for 1's complement and signed magnitude, implementation-defined signedness ofchar
, support for bytes that aren't 8 bits etc etc. They weren't allowed to give moronic computers a market disadvantage.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
@Lundin It would be interesting to see a collection of writeups and post-mortems from people who believed tradeoffs had been made in error, and why. I wonder how much study of these "we did that last time, and it did/didn't work out" has become institutional knowledge to inform the next such case, vs. just stories in people's heads.
– HostileFork
11 hours ago
1
This is still listed as point no. 1 of the original principles of C in the C2x Charter: "Existing code is important, existing implementations are not." ... "no one implementation was held up as the exemplar by which to define C: It is assumed that all existing implementations must change somewhat to conform to the Standard."
– Leushenko
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
I am unable to understand, how is it possible that we set something and then it doesn't show up as it is.
Are you asking why it compiles vs. gives you an error?
Yes, it should ideally give you an error. And it does, if you use your compiler's warnings. In GCC, with -Werror -Wall -pedantic
:
main.cpp: In function 'int main()':
main.cpp:7:15: error: overflow in conversion from 'int' to 'signed char:1'
changes value from '1' to '-1' [-Werror=overflow]
s.enabled = 1;
^
The reasoning for why this is left up to being implementation-defined vs. an error may have more to do with historical usages, where requiring a cast would mean breaking old code. The authors of the standard may believe warnings were enough to pick up the slack for those concerned.
To throw in some prescriptivism, I'll echo @Lundin's statement: "Never use bit-fields for any purpose." If you have the kind of good reasons to get low-level and specific about your memory layout details that would get you to thinking you needed bitfields in the first place, the other associated requirements you almost certainly have will run up against their underspecification.
(TL;DR - If you're sophisticated enough to legitimately "need" bit-fields, they're not well-defined enough to serve you.)
7
The authors of the standard were on holidays the day the bit-field chapter was designed. So the janitor had to do it. There is no rationale about anything regarding how bit-fields are designed.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
4
There is no coherent technical rationale. But that leads me to conclude that there was a political rationale: to avoid making any of the existing code or implementations incorrect. But the result is that there's very little about bitfields that you can rely upon.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
1
@JohnBollinger There was definitely politics in place, that caused a lot of damage to C90. I once spoke with a member of the committee who explained the source of lots of the crap - the ISO standard could not be allowed to favour certain existing technologies. This is why we are stuck with moronic things like support for 1's complement and signed magnitude, implementation-defined signedness ofchar
, support for bytes that aren't 8 bits etc etc. They weren't allowed to give moronic computers a market disadvantage.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
@Lundin It would be interesting to see a collection of writeups and post-mortems from people who believed tradeoffs had been made in error, and why. I wonder how much study of these "we did that last time, and it did/didn't work out" has become institutional knowledge to inform the next such case, vs. just stories in people's heads.
– HostileFork
11 hours ago
1
This is still listed as point no. 1 of the original principles of C in the C2x Charter: "Existing code is important, existing implementations are not." ... "no one implementation was held up as the exemplar by which to define C: It is assumed that all existing implementations must change somewhat to conform to the Standard."
– Leushenko
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
up vote
19
down vote
I am unable to understand, how is it possible that we set something and then it doesn't show up as it is.
Are you asking why it compiles vs. gives you an error?
Yes, it should ideally give you an error. And it does, if you use your compiler's warnings. In GCC, with -Werror -Wall -pedantic
:
main.cpp: In function 'int main()':
main.cpp:7:15: error: overflow in conversion from 'int' to 'signed char:1'
changes value from '1' to '-1' [-Werror=overflow]
s.enabled = 1;
^
The reasoning for why this is left up to being implementation-defined vs. an error may have more to do with historical usages, where requiring a cast would mean breaking old code. The authors of the standard may believe warnings were enough to pick up the slack for those concerned.
To throw in some prescriptivism, I'll echo @Lundin's statement: "Never use bit-fields for any purpose." If you have the kind of good reasons to get low-level and specific about your memory layout details that would get you to thinking you needed bitfields in the first place, the other associated requirements you almost certainly have will run up against their underspecification.
(TL;DR - If you're sophisticated enough to legitimately "need" bit-fields, they're not well-defined enough to serve you.)
I am unable to understand, how is it possible that we set something and then it doesn't show up as it is.
Are you asking why it compiles vs. gives you an error?
Yes, it should ideally give you an error. And it does, if you use your compiler's warnings. In GCC, with -Werror -Wall -pedantic
:
main.cpp: In function 'int main()':
main.cpp:7:15: error: overflow in conversion from 'int' to 'signed char:1'
changes value from '1' to '-1' [-Werror=overflow]
s.enabled = 1;
^
The reasoning for why this is left up to being implementation-defined vs. an error may have more to do with historical usages, where requiring a cast would mean breaking old code. The authors of the standard may believe warnings were enough to pick up the slack for those concerned.
To throw in some prescriptivism, I'll echo @Lundin's statement: "Never use bit-fields for any purpose." If you have the kind of good reasons to get low-level and specific about your memory layout details that would get you to thinking you needed bitfields in the first place, the other associated requirements you almost certainly have will run up against their underspecification.
(TL;DR - If you're sophisticated enough to legitimately "need" bit-fields, they're not well-defined enough to serve you.)
edited 7 hours ago
answered 11 hours ago
HostileFork
25k776132
25k776132
7
The authors of the standard were on holidays the day the bit-field chapter was designed. So the janitor had to do it. There is no rationale about anything regarding how bit-fields are designed.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
4
There is no coherent technical rationale. But that leads me to conclude that there was a political rationale: to avoid making any of the existing code or implementations incorrect. But the result is that there's very little about bitfields that you can rely upon.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
1
@JohnBollinger There was definitely politics in place, that caused a lot of damage to C90. I once spoke with a member of the committee who explained the source of lots of the crap - the ISO standard could not be allowed to favour certain existing technologies. This is why we are stuck with moronic things like support for 1's complement and signed magnitude, implementation-defined signedness ofchar
, support for bytes that aren't 8 bits etc etc. They weren't allowed to give moronic computers a market disadvantage.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
@Lundin It would be interesting to see a collection of writeups and post-mortems from people who believed tradeoffs had been made in error, and why. I wonder how much study of these "we did that last time, and it did/didn't work out" has become institutional knowledge to inform the next such case, vs. just stories in people's heads.
– HostileFork
11 hours ago
1
This is still listed as point no. 1 of the original principles of C in the C2x Charter: "Existing code is important, existing implementations are not." ... "no one implementation was held up as the exemplar by which to define C: It is assumed that all existing implementations must change somewhat to conform to the Standard."
– Leushenko
10 hours ago
add a comment |
7
The authors of the standard were on holidays the day the bit-field chapter was designed. So the janitor had to do it. There is no rationale about anything regarding how bit-fields are designed.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
4
There is no coherent technical rationale. But that leads me to conclude that there was a political rationale: to avoid making any of the existing code or implementations incorrect. But the result is that there's very little about bitfields that you can rely upon.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
1
@JohnBollinger There was definitely politics in place, that caused a lot of damage to C90. I once spoke with a member of the committee who explained the source of lots of the crap - the ISO standard could not be allowed to favour certain existing technologies. This is why we are stuck with moronic things like support for 1's complement and signed magnitude, implementation-defined signedness ofchar
, support for bytes that aren't 8 bits etc etc. They weren't allowed to give moronic computers a market disadvantage.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
@Lundin It would be interesting to see a collection of writeups and post-mortems from people who believed tradeoffs had been made in error, and why. I wonder how much study of these "we did that last time, and it did/didn't work out" has become institutional knowledge to inform the next such case, vs. just stories in people's heads.
– HostileFork
11 hours ago
1
This is still listed as point no. 1 of the original principles of C in the C2x Charter: "Existing code is important, existing implementations are not." ... "no one implementation was held up as the exemplar by which to define C: It is assumed that all existing implementations must change somewhat to conform to the Standard."
– Leushenko
10 hours ago
7
7
The authors of the standard were on holidays the day the bit-field chapter was designed. So the janitor had to do it. There is no rationale about anything regarding how bit-fields are designed.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
The authors of the standard were on holidays the day the bit-field chapter was designed. So the janitor had to do it. There is no rationale about anything regarding how bit-fields are designed.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
4
4
There is no coherent technical rationale. But that leads me to conclude that there was a political rationale: to avoid making any of the existing code or implementations incorrect. But the result is that there's very little about bitfields that you can rely upon.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
There is no coherent technical rationale. But that leads me to conclude that there was a political rationale: to avoid making any of the existing code or implementations incorrect. But the result is that there's very little about bitfields that you can rely upon.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
1
1
@JohnBollinger There was definitely politics in place, that caused a lot of damage to C90. I once spoke with a member of the committee who explained the source of lots of the crap - the ISO standard could not be allowed to favour certain existing technologies. This is why we are stuck with moronic things like support for 1's complement and signed magnitude, implementation-defined signedness of
char
, support for bytes that aren't 8 bits etc etc. They weren't allowed to give moronic computers a market disadvantage.– Lundin
11 hours ago
@JohnBollinger There was definitely politics in place, that caused a lot of damage to C90. I once spoke with a member of the committee who explained the source of lots of the crap - the ISO standard could not be allowed to favour certain existing technologies. This is why we are stuck with moronic things like support for 1's complement and signed magnitude, implementation-defined signedness of
char
, support for bytes that aren't 8 bits etc etc. They weren't allowed to give moronic computers a market disadvantage.– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
1
@Lundin It would be interesting to see a collection of writeups and post-mortems from people who believed tradeoffs had been made in error, and why. I wonder how much study of these "we did that last time, and it did/didn't work out" has become institutional knowledge to inform the next such case, vs. just stories in people's heads.
– HostileFork
11 hours ago
@Lundin It would be interesting to see a collection of writeups and post-mortems from people who believed tradeoffs had been made in error, and why. I wonder how much study of these "we did that last time, and it did/didn't work out" has become institutional knowledge to inform the next such case, vs. just stories in people's heads.
– HostileFork
11 hours ago
1
1
This is still listed as point no. 1 of the original principles of C in the C2x Charter: "Existing code is important, existing implementations are not." ... "no one implementation was held up as the exemplar by which to define C: It is assumed that all existing implementations must change somewhat to conform to the Standard."
– Leushenko
10 hours ago
This is still listed as point no. 1 of the original principles of C in the C2x Charter: "Existing code is important, existing implementations are not." ... "no one implementation was held up as the exemplar by which to define C: It is assumed that all existing implementations must change somewhat to conform to the Standard."
– Leushenko
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
This is implementation defined behavior. I am making the assumption that the machines you are running this on use twos-compliment signed integers and treat int
in this case as a signed integer to explain why you don't enter if true part of the if statement.
struct mystruct { int enabled:1; };
declares enable
as a 1 bit bit-field. Since it is signed, the valid values are -1
and 0
. Setting the field to 1
overflows that bit going back to -1
(this is undefined behavior)
Essentially when dealing with a signed bit-field the max value is 2^(bits - 1) - 1
which is 0
in this case.
"ince it is signed, the valid values are -1 and 0". Who said it is signed? It's not defined but implementation-defined behavior. If it is signed, then the valid values are-
and+
. 2's complement doesn't matter.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
3
@Lundin A 1 bit twos compliment number only has two possible values. If the bit is set, then since it is the sign bit, it is -1. If it isn't set then it is "positive" 0. I know this is implementation defined, I'm just explaining the results using the most common implantation
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
The key here is rather that 2's complement or any other signed form cannot function with a single bit available.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
@JohnBollinger I understand that. That's why I have the discliamer that this is implementation defined. At least for the big 3 they all treatint
as signed in this case. It is a shame that bit-fields are so under specified. It's basically here is this feature, consult your compiler on how to use it.
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
1
@Lundin, the standard's wording for the representation of signed integers can perfectly well handle the case where there are zero value bits, at least in two of the three allowed alternatives. This works because it assigns (negative) place values to sign bits, rather than giving them an algorithmic interpretation.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
9
down vote
This is implementation defined behavior. I am making the assumption that the machines you are running this on use twos-compliment signed integers and treat int
in this case as a signed integer to explain why you don't enter if true part of the if statement.
struct mystruct { int enabled:1; };
declares enable
as a 1 bit bit-field. Since it is signed, the valid values are -1
and 0
. Setting the field to 1
overflows that bit going back to -1
(this is undefined behavior)
Essentially when dealing with a signed bit-field the max value is 2^(bits - 1) - 1
which is 0
in this case.
"ince it is signed, the valid values are -1 and 0". Who said it is signed? It's not defined but implementation-defined behavior. If it is signed, then the valid values are-
and+
. 2's complement doesn't matter.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
3
@Lundin A 1 bit twos compliment number only has two possible values. If the bit is set, then since it is the sign bit, it is -1. If it isn't set then it is "positive" 0. I know this is implementation defined, I'm just explaining the results using the most common implantation
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
The key here is rather that 2's complement or any other signed form cannot function with a single bit available.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
@JohnBollinger I understand that. That's why I have the discliamer that this is implementation defined. At least for the big 3 they all treatint
as signed in this case. It is a shame that bit-fields are so under specified. It's basically here is this feature, consult your compiler on how to use it.
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
1
@Lundin, the standard's wording for the representation of signed integers can perfectly well handle the case where there are zero value bits, at least in two of the three allowed alternatives. This works because it assigns (negative) place values to sign bits, rather than giving them an algorithmic interpretation.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
This is implementation defined behavior. I am making the assumption that the machines you are running this on use twos-compliment signed integers and treat int
in this case as a signed integer to explain why you don't enter if true part of the if statement.
struct mystruct { int enabled:1; };
declares enable
as a 1 bit bit-field. Since it is signed, the valid values are -1
and 0
. Setting the field to 1
overflows that bit going back to -1
(this is undefined behavior)
Essentially when dealing with a signed bit-field the max value is 2^(bits - 1) - 1
which is 0
in this case.
This is implementation defined behavior. I am making the assumption that the machines you are running this on use twos-compliment signed integers and treat int
in this case as a signed integer to explain why you don't enter if true part of the if statement.
struct mystruct { int enabled:1; };
declares enable
as a 1 bit bit-field. Since it is signed, the valid values are -1
and 0
. Setting the field to 1
overflows that bit going back to -1
(this is undefined behavior)
Essentially when dealing with a signed bit-field the max value is 2^(bits - 1) - 1
which is 0
in this case.
edited 10 hours ago
Community♦
11
11
answered 11 hours ago
NathanOliver
86k15118178
86k15118178
"ince it is signed, the valid values are -1 and 0". Who said it is signed? It's not defined but implementation-defined behavior. If it is signed, then the valid values are-
and+
. 2's complement doesn't matter.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
3
@Lundin A 1 bit twos compliment number only has two possible values. If the bit is set, then since it is the sign bit, it is -1. If it isn't set then it is "positive" 0. I know this is implementation defined, I'm just explaining the results using the most common implantation
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
The key here is rather that 2's complement or any other signed form cannot function with a single bit available.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
@JohnBollinger I understand that. That's why I have the discliamer that this is implementation defined. At least for the big 3 they all treatint
as signed in this case. It is a shame that bit-fields are so under specified. It's basically here is this feature, consult your compiler on how to use it.
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
1
@Lundin, the standard's wording for the representation of signed integers can perfectly well handle the case where there are zero value bits, at least in two of the three allowed alternatives. This works because it assigns (negative) place values to sign bits, rather than giving them an algorithmic interpretation.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
"ince it is signed, the valid values are -1 and 0". Who said it is signed? It's not defined but implementation-defined behavior. If it is signed, then the valid values are-
and+
. 2's complement doesn't matter.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
3
@Lundin A 1 bit twos compliment number only has two possible values. If the bit is set, then since it is the sign bit, it is -1. If it isn't set then it is "positive" 0. I know this is implementation defined, I'm just explaining the results using the most common implantation
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
The key here is rather that 2's complement or any other signed form cannot function with a single bit available.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
@JohnBollinger I understand that. That's why I have the discliamer that this is implementation defined. At least for the big 3 they all treatint
as signed in this case. It is a shame that bit-fields are so under specified. It's basically here is this feature, consult your compiler on how to use it.
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
1
@Lundin, the standard's wording for the representation of signed integers can perfectly well handle the case where there are zero value bits, at least in two of the three allowed alternatives. This works because it assigns (negative) place values to sign bits, rather than giving them an algorithmic interpretation.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
"ince it is signed, the valid values are -1 and 0". Who said it is signed? It's not defined but implementation-defined behavior. If it is signed, then the valid values are
-
and +
. 2's complement doesn't matter.– Lundin
11 hours ago
"ince it is signed, the valid values are -1 and 0". Who said it is signed? It's not defined but implementation-defined behavior. If it is signed, then the valid values are
-
and +
. 2's complement doesn't matter.– Lundin
11 hours ago
3
3
@Lundin A 1 bit twos compliment number only has two possible values. If the bit is set, then since it is the sign bit, it is -1. If it isn't set then it is "positive" 0. I know this is implementation defined, I'm just explaining the results using the most common implantation
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
@Lundin A 1 bit twos compliment number only has two possible values. If the bit is set, then since it is the sign bit, it is -1. If it isn't set then it is "positive" 0. I know this is implementation defined, I'm just explaining the results using the most common implantation
– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
The key here is rather that 2's complement or any other signed form cannot function with a single bit available.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
The key here is rather that 2's complement or any other signed form cannot function with a single bit available.
– Lundin
11 hours ago
1
1
@JohnBollinger I understand that. That's why I have the discliamer that this is implementation defined. At least for the big 3 they all treat
int
as signed in this case. It is a shame that bit-fields are so under specified. It's basically here is this feature, consult your compiler on how to use it.– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
@JohnBollinger I understand that. That's why I have the discliamer that this is implementation defined. At least for the big 3 they all treat
int
as signed in this case. It is a shame that bit-fields are so under specified. It's basically here is this feature, consult your compiler on how to use it.– NathanOliver
11 hours ago
1
1
@Lundin, the standard's wording for the representation of signed integers can perfectly well handle the case where there are zero value bits, at least in two of the three allowed alternatives. This works because it assigns (negative) place values to sign bits, rather than giving them an algorithmic interpretation.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
@Lundin, the standard's wording for the representation of signed integers can perfectly well handle the case where there are zero value bits, at least in two of the three allowed alternatives. This works because it assigns (negative) place values to sign bits, rather than giving them an algorithmic interpretation.
– John Bollinger
11 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
You could think of it as that in the 2's complement system, the left-most bit is the sign bit. Any signed integer with the left-most bit set is thus a negative value.
If you have a 1-bit signed integer, it has only the sign bit. So assigning 1
to that single bit can only set the sign bit. So, when reading it back, the value is interpreted as negative and so is -1.
The values a 1 bit signed integer can hold is -2^(n-1)= -2^(1-1)= -2^0= -1
and 2^n-1= 2^1-1=0
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
You could think of it as that in the 2's complement system, the left-most bit is the sign bit. Any signed integer with the left-most bit set is thus a negative value.
If you have a 1-bit signed integer, it has only the sign bit. So assigning 1
to that single bit can only set the sign bit. So, when reading it back, the value is interpreted as negative and so is -1.
The values a 1 bit signed integer can hold is -2^(n-1)= -2^(1-1)= -2^0= -1
and 2^n-1= 2^1-1=0
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
You could think of it as that in the 2's complement system, the left-most bit is the sign bit. Any signed integer with the left-most bit set is thus a negative value.
If you have a 1-bit signed integer, it has only the sign bit. So assigning 1
to that single bit can only set the sign bit. So, when reading it back, the value is interpreted as negative and so is -1.
The values a 1 bit signed integer can hold is -2^(n-1)= -2^(1-1)= -2^0= -1
and 2^n-1= 2^1-1=0
You could think of it as that in the 2's complement system, the left-most bit is the sign bit. Any signed integer with the left-most bit set is thus a negative value.
If you have a 1-bit signed integer, it has only the sign bit. So assigning 1
to that single bit can only set the sign bit. So, when reading it back, the value is interpreted as negative and so is -1.
The values a 1 bit signed integer can hold is -2^(n-1)= -2^(1-1)= -2^0= -1
and 2^n-1= 2^1-1=0
answered 11 hours ago
Paul Ogilvie
17.1k11234
17.1k11234
add a comment |
add a comment |
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26
Since the bitfield is declared as
int
i think it only can hold the values0
and-1
.– Osiris
11 hours ago
3
just think of it how int stores -1. All bits are set to 1. Hence, if you only have one bit it clearly has to be -1. So 1 and -1 in the 1 bit int are the same. Change the check to 'if (s.enabled != 0)' and it works. Because 0 it can't be.
– Jürgen
11 hours ago
It is true that these rules are the same in C and C++. But according to the tag usage policies, we should only tag this as C and refrain from cross-tagging when not needed. I'll remove the C++ part, it should not affect any posted answers.
– Lundin
10 hours ago
1
Have you tried changing it to
struct mystruct { unsigned int enabled:1; };
?– ChatterOne
10 hours ago