Why are Leela's fans so passionate?
The neural-network engine Leela is a relatively new one. It's also got some extremely passionate fans. For example they write things like this:
Wait 5-6 months, and we will see SF8 on uber-duper logarithmic in cores Elo-wise 32 cores being smashed by Lc0 on my puny single 1060.
Watching Leela's fans argue up and down Talkchess, Chess.com's computer championship chat and TCEC chat, about how their engine is / isn't superior to Stockfish because of [multitude of factors] or how their engine is going to crush Stockfish after the next learning rate drop, about how the "end of an era" is at hand, etc, makes me wonder: why are Leela's fans so passionate?
I don't recall seeing anything similar to this before Leela showed up. It's not like Leela is so special either: before Leela showed up, Stockfish, Komodo and Houdini dominated engine chess, and there were periods when any of the three were the strongest engine. But I don't recall seeing any of their fans displaying the same level of intensity.
engines leela
asked 2 hours ago
AllureAllure
1,055215
add a comment |
The neural-network engine Leela is a relatively new one. It's also got some extremely passionate fans. For example they write things like this:
Wait 5-6 months, and we will see SF8 on uber-duper logarithmic in cores Elo-wise 32 cores being smashed by Lc0 on my puny single 1060.
Watching Leela's fans argue up and down Talkchess, Chess.com's computer championship chat and TCEC chat, about how their engine is / isn't superior to Stockfish because of [multitude of factors] or how their engine is going to crush Stockfish after the next learning rate drop, about how the "end of an era" is at hand, etc, makes me wonder: why are Leela's fans so passionate?
I don't recall seeing anything similar to this before Leela showed up. It's not like Leela is so special either: before Leela showed up, Stockfish, Komodo and Houdini dominated engine chess, and there were periods when any of the three were the strongest engine. But I don't recall seeing any of their fans displaying the same level of intensity.
engines leela
asked 2 hours ago
AllureAllure
1,055215
The difference is that normal engines have sort of a cap to what they can improve, whereas engines based on neural networks do not
– Isac
2 hours ago
add a comment |
The neural-network engine Leela is a relatively new one. It's also got some extremely passionate fans. For example they write things like this:
Wait 5-6 months, and we will see SF8 on uber-duper logarithmic in cores Elo-wise 32 cores being smashed by Lc0 on my puny single 1060.
Watching Leela's fans argue up and down Talkchess, Chess.com's computer championship chat and TCEC chat, about how their engine is / isn't superior to Stockfish because of [multitude of factors] or how their engine is going to crush Stockfish after the next learning rate drop, about how the "end of an era" is at hand, etc, makes me wonder: why are Leela's fans so passionate?
I don't recall seeing anything similar to this before Leela showed up. It's not like Leela is so special either: before Leela showed up, Stockfish, Komodo and Houdini dominated engine chess, and there were periods when any of the three were the strongest engine. But I don't recall seeing any of their fans displaying the same level of intensity.
engines leela
asked 2 hours ago
AllureAllure
1,055215
The neural-network engine Leela is a relatively new one. It's also got some extremely passionate fans. For example they write things like this:
Wait 5-6 months, and we will see SF8 on uber-duper logarithmic in cores Elo-wise 32 cores being smashed by Lc0 on my puny single 1060.
Watching Leela's fans argue up and down Talkchess, Chess.com's computer championship chat and TCEC chat, about how their engine is / isn't superior to Stockfish because of [multitude of factors] or how their engine is going to crush Stockfish after the next learning rate drop, about how the "end of an era" is at hand, etc, makes me wonder: why are Leela's fans so passionate?
I don't recall seeing anything similar to this before Leela showed up. It's not like Leela is so special either: before Leela showed up, Stockfish, Komodo and Houdini dominated engine chess, and there were periods when any of the three were the strongest engine. But I don't recall seeing any of their fans displaying the same level of intensity.
engines leela
engines leela
asked 2 hours ago
AllureAllure
1,055215
asked 2 hours ago
AllureAllure
1,055215
asked 2 hours ago
AllureAllure
1,055215
asked 2 hours ago
AllureAllure
1,055215
asked 2 hours ago
AllureAllure
1,055215
1,055215
The difference is that normal engines have sort of a cap to what they can improve, whereas engines based on neural networks do not
– Isac
2 hours ago
add a comment |
The difference is that normal engines have sort of a cap to what they can improve, whereas engines based on neural networks do not
– Isac
2 hours ago
The difference is that normal engines have sort of a cap to what they can improve, whereas engines based on neural networks do not
– Isac
2 hours ago
The difference is that normal engines have sort of a cap to what they can improve, whereas engines based on neural networks do not
– Isac
2 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Leela is special because it's the first strong open-source deep-learning engine. Defeating Stockfish (and also Komodo and Houdini) convincingly on all settings is a very significant milestone, practically more important than Google's AlphaZero. Google's system is inaccessible to anyone but themself.
The era of manually tune engine evaluation function will soon end. Stockfish, Houdini and Komodo will soon fade in existence, like old leaders like Rybka and Shredder. All chess engines adopting classical programming techniques will no longer lead the world.
answered 2 hours ago
SmallChessSmallChess
14.6k22248
1
Wow, now you are sounding like a Leela fan ...
– Allure
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Anytime a group of people get extremely hyped about something (and especially when they aggressively bash alternatives), there's a good chance this is just human tribalism at work. Leela may become extremely strong in the near future, but to say with 100% certainty this will happen now is naive.
People also like change. Stockfish is a revolutionary engine (strong evaluation function based on a huge number of heuristics, and an incredibly fast searching function), but it's been the top dog for a long time. No matter how good things are, eventually people want something even better. It's what drives society forward.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible for Leela to live up to its hype. It's just that this hype you're describing isn't currently warranted.
answered 16 mins ago
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
3,468110
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Leela is special because it's the first strong open-source deep-learning engine. Defeating Stockfish (and also Komodo and Houdini) convincingly on all settings is a very significant milestone, practically more important than Google's AlphaZero. Google's system is inaccessible to anyone but themself.
The era of manually tune engine evaluation function will soon end. Stockfish, Houdini and Komodo will soon fade in existence, like old leaders like Rybka and Shredder. All chess engines adopting classical programming techniques will no longer lead the world.
answered 2 hours ago
SmallChessSmallChess
14.6k22248
1
Wow, now you are sounding like a Leela fan ...
– Allure
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Leela is special because it's the first strong open-source deep-learning engine. Defeating Stockfish (and also Komodo and Houdini) convincingly on all settings is a very significant milestone, practically more important than Google's AlphaZero. Google's system is inaccessible to anyone but themself.
The era of manually tune engine evaluation function will soon end. Stockfish, Houdini and Komodo will soon fade in existence, like old leaders like Rybka and Shredder. All chess engines adopting classical programming techniques will no longer lead the world.
answered 2 hours ago
SmallChessSmallChess
14.6k22248
1
Wow, now you are sounding like a Leela fan ...
– Allure
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Leela is special because it's the first strong open-source deep-learning engine. Defeating Stockfish (and also Komodo and Houdini) convincingly on all settings is a very significant milestone, practically more important than Google's AlphaZero. Google's system is inaccessible to anyone but themself.
The era of manually tune engine evaluation function will soon end. Stockfish, Houdini and Komodo will soon fade in existence, like old leaders like Rybka and Shredder. All chess engines adopting classical programming techniques will no longer lead the world.
answered 2 hours ago
SmallChessSmallChess
14.6k22248
Leela is special because it's the first strong open-source deep-learning engine. Defeating Stockfish (and also Komodo and Houdini) convincingly on all settings is a very significant milestone, practically more important than Google's AlphaZero. Google's system is inaccessible to anyone but themself.
The era of manually tune engine evaluation function will soon end. Stockfish, Houdini and Komodo will soon fade in existence, like old leaders like Rybka and Shredder. All chess engines adopting classical programming techniques will no longer lead the world.
answered 2 hours ago
SmallChessSmallChess
14.6k22248
edited 1 hour ago
answered 2 hours ago
SmallChessSmallChess
14.6k22248
answered 2 hours ago
SmallChessSmallChess
14.6k22248
answered 2 hours ago
SmallChessSmallChess
14.6k22248
14.6k22248
1
Wow, now you are sounding like a Leela fan ...
– Allure
2 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Wow, now you are sounding like a Leela fan ...
– Allure
2 hours ago
1
1
Wow, now you are sounding like a Leela fan ...
– Allure
2 hours ago
Wow, now you are sounding like a Leela fan ...
– Allure
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Anytime a group of people get extremely hyped about something (and especially when they aggressively bash alternatives), there's a good chance this is just human tribalism at work. Leela may become extremely strong in the near future, but to say with 100% certainty this will happen now is naive.
People also like change. Stockfish is a revolutionary engine (strong evaluation function based on a huge number of heuristics, and an incredibly fast searching function), but it's been the top dog for a long time. No matter how good things are, eventually people want something even better. It's what drives society forward.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible for Leela to live up to its hype. It's just that this hype you're describing isn't currently warranted.
answered 16 mins ago
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
3,468110
add a comment |
Anytime a group of people get extremely hyped about something (and especially when they aggressively bash alternatives), there's a good chance this is just human tribalism at work. Leela may become extremely strong in the near future, but to say with 100% certainty this will happen now is naive.
People also like change. Stockfish is a revolutionary engine (strong evaluation function based on a huge number of heuristics, and an incredibly fast searching function), but it's been the top dog for a long time. No matter how good things are, eventually people want something even better. It's what drives society forward.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible for Leela to live up to its hype. It's just that this hype you're describing isn't currently warranted.
answered 16 mins ago
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
3,468110
add a comment |
Anytime a group of people get extremely hyped about something (and especially when they aggressively bash alternatives), there's a good chance this is just human tribalism at work. Leela may become extremely strong in the near future, but to say with 100% certainty this will happen now is naive.
People also like change. Stockfish is a revolutionary engine (strong evaluation function based on a huge number of heuristics, and an incredibly fast searching function), but it's been the top dog for a long time. No matter how good things are, eventually people want something even better. It's what drives society forward.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible for Leela to live up to its hype. It's just that this hype you're describing isn't currently warranted.
answered 16 mins ago
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
3,468110
Anytime a group of people get extremely hyped about something (and especially when they aggressively bash alternatives), there's a good chance this is just human tribalism at work. Leela may become extremely strong in the near future, but to say with 100% certainty this will happen now is naive.
People also like change. Stockfish is a revolutionary engine (strong evaluation function based on a huge number of heuristics, and an incredibly fast searching function), but it's been the top dog for a long time. No matter how good things are, eventually people want something even better. It's what drives society forward.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible for Leela to live up to its hype. It's just that this hype you're describing isn't currently warranted.
answered 16 mins ago
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
3,468110
answered 16 mins ago
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
3,468110
answered 16 mins ago
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
3,468110
answered 16 mins ago
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
3,468110
3,468110
add a comment |
add a comment |
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The difference is that normal engines have sort of a cap to what they can improve, whereas engines based on neural networks do not
– Isac
2 hours ago