Does Fermat's Last Theorem imply the modularity theorem?












2














The Wikipedia article on the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem has this sentence




If the link identified by Frey could be proven, then in turn, it would mean that a proof or disproof of either of Fermat's Last Theorem or the Taniyama–Shimura–Weil conjecture would simultaneously prove or disprove the other.




This suggests FLT and the modularity theorem are equivalent. While the fact that the modularity theorem implies FLT was a rather important part of Wiles' proof, I wasn't aware the reverse implication was true. Is it?










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  • 1




    The modularity theorem is true so anything implies it. What implies the modularity of L-functions of rational elliptic curves should be essentially that for every $j(tau) in mathbb{Q}$, some $j(frac{atau+b}{d})$ appears in the invariants of the jacobian of some modular curve.
    – reuns
    Nov 15 at 22:29
















2














The Wikipedia article on the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem has this sentence




If the link identified by Frey could be proven, then in turn, it would mean that a proof or disproof of either of Fermat's Last Theorem or the Taniyama–Shimura–Weil conjecture would simultaneously prove or disprove the other.




This suggests FLT and the modularity theorem are equivalent. While the fact that the modularity theorem implies FLT was a rather important part of Wiles' proof, I wasn't aware the reverse implication was true. Is it?










share|cite|improve this question


















  • 1




    The modularity theorem is true so anything implies it. What implies the modularity of L-functions of rational elliptic curves should be essentially that for every $j(tau) in mathbb{Q}$, some $j(frac{atau+b}{d})$ appears in the invariants of the jacobian of some modular curve.
    – reuns
    Nov 15 at 22:29














2












2








2


1





The Wikipedia article on the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem has this sentence




If the link identified by Frey could be proven, then in turn, it would mean that a proof or disproof of either of Fermat's Last Theorem or the Taniyama–Shimura–Weil conjecture would simultaneously prove or disprove the other.




This suggests FLT and the modularity theorem are equivalent. While the fact that the modularity theorem implies FLT was a rather important part of Wiles' proof, I wasn't aware the reverse implication was true. Is it?










share|cite|improve this question













The Wikipedia article on the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem has this sentence




If the link identified by Frey could be proven, then in turn, it would mean that a proof or disproof of either of Fermat's Last Theorem or the Taniyama–Shimura–Weil conjecture would simultaneously prove or disprove the other.




This suggests FLT and the modularity theorem are equivalent. While the fact that the modularity theorem implies FLT was a rather important part of Wiles' proof, I wasn't aware the reverse implication was true. Is it?







number-theory elliptic-curves






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asked Nov 15 at 21:44









eyeballfrog

6,058629




6,058629








  • 1




    The modularity theorem is true so anything implies it. What implies the modularity of L-functions of rational elliptic curves should be essentially that for every $j(tau) in mathbb{Q}$, some $j(frac{atau+b}{d})$ appears in the invariants of the jacobian of some modular curve.
    – reuns
    Nov 15 at 22:29














  • 1




    The modularity theorem is true so anything implies it. What implies the modularity of L-functions of rational elliptic curves should be essentially that for every $j(tau) in mathbb{Q}$, some $j(frac{atau+b}{d})$ appears in the invariants of the jacobian of some modular curve.
    – reuns
    Nov 15 at 22:29








1




1




The modularity theorem is true so anything implies it. What implies the modularity of L-functions of rational elliptic curves should be essentially that for every $j(tau) in mathbb{Q}$, some $j(frac{atau+b}{d})$ appears in the invariants of the jacobian of some modular curve.
– reuns
Nov 15 at 22:29




The modularity theorem is true so anything implies it. What implies the modularity of L-functions of rational elliptic curves should be essentially that for every $j(tau) in mathbb{Q}$, some $j(frac{atau+b}{d})$ appears in the invariants of the jacobian of some modular curve.
– reuns
Nov 15 at 22:29










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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1














This discussion seems to me a bit weird. Let us recall the facts:



1) The Shimura-Taniyama-Weil conjecture (now a theorem of Wiles et. al.) states that any elliptic curve $E$ defined over $mathbf Q$ is "modular". This means roughly that the Hasse-Weil L-function $L_E(s)$ attached to $E$ comes from an L-function L$(f_E,s)$ attached to a certain modular form $f_E$. More precisely, let $f_E$ be the inverse Mellin transform of $(2pi)^{-s}Gamma(s)L_E(s)$; then $f_Ein S_2(Gamma_0 (N))$, where $N$ is the conductor of $E$ and $f_E$ is a Hecke form.



2) Suppose that the Fermat equation $a^p+b^p=c^p$ admits a non trivial solution and consider the elliptic curve $E_{a,b,c}$ defined over $mathbf Q$ by the equation $y^2=x(x-a^p)(x+b^p)$ (Hellegouarch, 1969). Frey (1986) conjectured that $E_{a,b,c}$ could not be modular (see the appendix). Then (Mazur and) Ribet (1990) proved a deep theorem on modular representations of $Gal(bar {mathbf Q}/mathbf Q)$ which implied Frey's conjecture.



3) FLT follows from 1) and 2). Thus the modularity thm. implies FLT, but the converse does not hold, for purely logical but also for "intuitive" reasons.



Appendix. I take this opportunity to reproduce a short historical account which I gave as a comment to A question on FLT and Taniyama Shimura



Frey picked up this curve in Yves Hellegouarch's thesis *Courbes elliptiques et équation de Fermat", Besançon, 1972. Hell. himself has written a nice introductory book on the subject, "Invitation aux math. de Fermat-Wiles", Masson ed., 1997 (I don't know if there is an English translation). At the beginning of the 70s, Hell. had not the necessary coceptual tools to conjecture that his elliptic curve could not be modular, but he was aware that it possessed so many extraordinary properties that he had nicknamed it "Roland's mare" (Roland - Orlando in Italian - was presumably a nephew of emperor Charlemagne, a legendary hero in French mythology, and the central character of Tasso's epic poem "Orlando furioso"), a fabulous animal which had all the qualities in the world except... existence. Only in 1985, with all the theoretical progress made in more than 10 years, Frey was able to state his conjecture that "Roland's mare" could not be modular. See the historical appendix of Hell.'s book.






share|cite|improve this answer





























    -5














    Yes this reverse is also true



    If there were a counterexample for FLT, it would also provide a counterexample of modularity by a specific construction.






    share|cite|improve this answer

















    • 1




      The reverse implication of $Arightarrow B$ is $Brightarrow A$, not $neg Brightarrow neg A$.
      – eyeballfrog
      Nov 15 at 22:08










    • Yes, however this is actually an if and only if implication not just a one way.
      – Mathaddict
      Nov 15 at 22:09










    • So you're saying that if there is any non-modular elliptic curve, it could be used to construct a counterexample to FLT?
      – eyeballfrog
      Nov 15 at 22:11












    • No, that's what Wile's proof did (and then went on to prove that they don't exist), I'm saying that if there were a counterexample to FLT then it could be used to construct a non-modular semistable eliptic curve which would contradict modularity.
      – Mathaddict
      Nov 15 at 22:15













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    This discussion seems to me a bit weird. Let us recall the facts:



    1) The Shimura-Taniyama-Weil conjecture (now a theorem of Wiles et. al.) states that any elliptic curve $E$ defined over $mathbf Q$ is "modular". This means roughly that the Hasse-Weil L-function $L_E(s)$ attached to $E$ comes from an L-function L$(f_E,s)$ attached to a certain modular form $f_E$. More precisely, let $f_E$ be the inverse Mellin transform of $(2pi)^{-s}Gamma(s)L_E(s)$; then $f_Ein S_2(Gamma_0 (N))$, where $N$ is the conductor of $E$ and $f_E$ is a Hecke form.



    2) Suppose that the Fermat equation $a^p+b^p=c^p$ admits a non trivial solution and consider the elliptic curve $E_{a,b,c}$ defined over $mathbf Q$ by the equation $y^2=x(x-a^p)(x+b^p)$ (Hellegouarch, 1969). Frey (1986) conjectured that $E_{a,b,c}$ could not be modular (see the appendix). Then (Mazur and) Ribet (1990) proved a deep theorem on modular representations of $Gal(bar {mathbf Q}/mathbf Q)$ which implied Frey's conjecture.



    3) FLT follows from 1) and 2). Thus the modularity thm. implies FLT, but the converse does not hold, for purely logical but also for "intuitive" reasons.



    Appendix. I take this opportunity to reproduce a short historical account which I gave as a comment to A question on FLT and Taniyama Shimura



    Frey picked up this curve in Yves Hellegouarch's thesis *Courbes elliptiques et équation de Fermat", Besançon, 1972. Hell. himself has written a nice introductory book on the subject, "Invitation aux math. de Fermat-Wiles", Masson ed., 1997 (I don't know if there is an English translation). At the beginning of the 70s, Hell. had not the necessary coceptual tools to conjecture that his elliptic curve could not be modular, but he was aware that it possessed so many extraordinary properties that he had nicknamed it "Roland's mare" (Roland - Orlando in Italian - was presumably a nephew of emperor Charlemagne, a legendary hero in French mythology, and the central character of Tasso's epic poem "Orlando furioso"), a fabulous animal which had all the qualities in the world except... existence. Only in 1985, with all the theoretical progress made in more than 10 years, Frey was able to state his conjecture that "Roland's mare" could not be modular. See the historical appendix of Hell.'s book.






    share|cite|improve this answer


























      1














      This discussion seems to me a bit weird. Let us recall the facts:



      1) The Shimura-Taniyama-Weil conjecture (now a theorem of Wiles et. al.) states that any elliptic curve $E$ defined over $mathbf Q$ is "modular". This means roughly that the Hasse-Weil L-function $L_E(s)$ attached to $E$ comes from an L-function L$(f_E,s)$ attached to a certain modular form $f_E$. More precisely, let $f_E$ be the inverse Mellin transform of $(2pi)^{-s}Gamma(s)L_E(s)$; then $f_Ein S_2(Gamma_0 (N))$, where $N$ is the conductor of $E$ and $f_E$ is a Hecke form.



      2) Suppose that the Fermat equation $a^p+b^p=c^p$ admits a non trivial solution and consider the elliptic curve $E_{a,b,c}$ defined over $mathbf Q$ by the equation $y^2=x(x-a^p)(x+b^p)$ (Hellegouarch, 1969). Frey (1986) conjectured that $E_{a,b,c}$ could not be modular (see the appendix). Then (Mazur and) Ribet (1990) proved a deep theorem on modular representations of $Gal(bar {mathbf Q}/mathbf Q)$ which implied Frey's conjecture.



      3) FLT follows from 1) and 2). Thus the modularity thm. implies FLT, but the converse does not hold, for purely logical but also for "intuitive" reasons.



      Appendix. I take this opportunity to reproduce a short historical account which I gave as a comment to A question on FLT and Taniyama Shimura



      Frey picked up this curve in Yves Hellegouarch's thesis *Courbes elliptiques et équation de Fermat", Besançon, 1972. Hell. himself has written a nice introductory book on the subject, "Invitation aux math. de Fermat-Wiles", Masson ed., 1997 (I don't know if there is an English translation). At the beginning of the 70s, Hell. had not the necessary coceptual tools to conjecture that his elliptic curve could not be modular, but he was aware that it possessed so many extraordinary properties that he had nicknamed it "Roland's mare" (Roland - Orlando in Italian - was presumably a nephew of emperor Charlemagne, a legendary hero in French mythology, and the central character of Tasso's epic poem "Orlando furioso"), a fabulous animal which had all the qualities in the world except... existence. Only in 1985, with all the theoretical progress made in more than 10 years, Frey was able to state his conjecture that "Roland's mare" could not be modular. See the historical appendix of Hell.'s book.






      share|cite|improve this answer
























        1












        1








        1






        This discussion seems to me a bit weird. Let us recall the facts:



        1) The Shimura-Taniyama-Weil conjecture (now a theorem of Wiles et. al.) states that any elliptic curve $E$ defined over $mathbf Q$ is "modular". This means roughly that the Hasse-Weil L-function $L_E(s)$ attached to $E$ comes from an L-function L$(f_E,s)$ attached to a certain modular form $f_E$. More precisely, let $f_E$ be the inverse Mellin transform of $(2pi)^{-s}Gamma(s)L_E(s)$; then $f_Ein S_2(Gamma_0 (N))$, where $N$ is the conductor of $E$ and $f_E$ is a Hecke form.



        2) Suppose that the Fermat equation $a^p+b^p=c^p$ admits a non trivial solution and consider the elliptic curve $E_{a,b,c}$ defined over $mathbf Q$ by the equation $y^2=x(x-a^p)(x+b^p)$ (Hellegouarch, 1969). Frey (1986) conjectured that $E_{a,b,c}$ could not be modular (see the appendix). Then (Mazur and) Ribet (1990) proved a deep theorem on modular representations of $Gal(bar {mathbf Q}/mathbf Q)$ which implied Frey's conjecture.



        3) FLT follows from 1) and 2). Thus the modularity thm. implies FLT, but the converse does not hold, for purely logical but also for "intuitive" reasons.



        Appendix. I take this opportunity to reproduce a short historical account which I gave as a comment to A question on FLT and Taniyama Shimura



        Frey picked up this curve in Yves Hellegouarch's thesis *Courbes elliptiques et équation de Fermat", Besançon, 1972. Hell. himself has written a nice introductory book on the subject, "Invitation aux math. de Fermat-Wiles", Masson ed., 1997 (I don't know if there is an English translation). At the beginning of the 70s, Hell. had not the necessary coceptual tools to conjecture that his elliptic curve could not be modular, but he was aware that it possessed so many extraordinary properties that he had nicknamed it "Roland's mare" (Roland - Orlando in Italian - was presumably a nephew of emperor Charlemagne, a legendary hero in French mythology, and the central character of Tasso's epic poem "Orlando furioso"), a fabulous animal which had all the qualities in the world except... existence. Only in 1985, with all the theoretical progress made in more than 10 years, Frey was able to state his conjecture that "Roland's mare" could not be modular. See the historical appendix of Hell.'s book.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        This discussion seems to me a bit weird. Let us recall the facts:



        1) The Shimura-Taniyama-Weil conjecture (now a theorem of Wiles et. al.) states that any elliptic curve $E$ defined over $mathbf Q$ is "modular". This means roughly that the Hasse-Weil L-function $L_E(s)$ attached to $E$ comes from an L-function L$(f_E,s)$ attached to a certain modular form $f_E$. More precisely, let $f_E$ be the inverse Mellin transform of $(2pi)^{-s}Gamma(s)L_E(s)$; then $f_Ein S_2(Gamma_0 (N))$, where $N$ is the conductor of $E$ and $f_E$ is a Hecke form.



        2) Suppose that the Fermat equation $a^p+b^p=c^p$ admits a non trivial solution and consider the elliptic curve $E_{a,b,c}$ defined over $mathbf Q$ by the equation $y^2=x(x-a^p)(x+b^p)$ (Hellegouarch, 1969). Frey (1986) conjectured that $E_{a,b,c}$ could not be modular (see the appendix). Then (Mazur and) Ribet (1990) proved a deep theorem on modular representations of $Gal(bar {mathbf Q}/mathbf Q)$ which implied Frey's conjecture.



        3) FLT follows from 1) and 2). Thus the modularity thm. implies FLT, but the converse does not hold, for purely logical but also for "intuitive" reasons.



        Appendix. I take this opportunity to reproduce a short historical account which I gave as a comment to A question on FLT and Taniyama Shimura



        Frey picked up this curve in Yves Hellegouarch's thesis *Courbes elliptiques et équation de Fermat", Besançon, 1972. Hell. himself has written a nice introductory book on the subject, "Invitation aux math. de Fermat-Wiles", Masson ed., 1997 (I don't know if there is an English translation). At the beginning of the 70s, Hell. had not the necessary coceptual tools to conjecture that his elliptic curve could not be modular, but he was aware that it possessed so many extraordinary properties that he had nicknamed it "Roland's mare" (Roland - Orlando in Italian - was presumably a nephew of emperor Charlemagne, a legendary hero in French mythology, and the central character of Tasso's epic poem "Orlando furioso"), a fabulous animal which had all the qualities in the world except... existence. Only in 1985, with all the theoretical progress made in more than 10 years, Frey was able to state his conjecture that "Roland's mare" could not be modular. See the historical appendix of Hell.'s book.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Nov 26 at 8:45









        nguyen quang do

        8,3311722




        8,3311722























            -5














            Yes this reverse is also true



            If there were a counterexample for FLT, it would also provide a counterexample of modularity by a specific construction.






            share|cite|improve this answer

















            • 1




              The reverse implication of $Arightarrow B$ is $Brightarrow A$, not $neg Brightarrow neg A$.
              – eyeballfrog
              Nov 15 at 22:08










            • Yes, however this is actually an if and only if implication not just a one way.
              – Mathaddict
              Nov 15 at 22:09










            • So you're saying that if there is any non-modular elliptic curve, it could be used to construct a counterexample to FLT?
              – eyeballfrog
              Nov 15 at 22:11












            • No, that's what Wile's proof did (and then went on to prove that they don't exist), I'm saying that if there were a counterexample to FLT then it could be used to construct a non-modular semistable eliptic curve which would contradict modularity.
              – Mathaddict
              Nov 15 at 22:15


















            -5














            Yes this reverse is also true



            If there were a counterexample for FLT, it would also provide a counterexample of modularity by a specific construction.






            share|cite|improve this answer

















            • 1




              The reverse implication of $Arightarrow B$ is $Brightarrow A$, not $neg Brightarrow neg A$.
              – eyeballfrog
              Nov 15 at 22:08










            • Yes, however this is actually an if and only if implication not just a one way.
              – Mathaddict
              Nov 15 at 22:09










            • So you're saying that if there is any non-modular elliptic curve, it could be used to construct a counterexample to FLT?
              – eyeballfrog
              Nov 15 at 22:11












            • No, that's what Wile's proof did (and then went on to prove that they don't exist), I'm saying that if there were a counterexample to FLT then it could be used to construct a non-modular semistable eliptic curve which would contradict modularity.
              – Mathaddict
              Nov 15 at 22:15
















            -5












            -5








            -5






            Yes this reverse is also true



            If there were a counterexample for FLT, it would also provide a counterexample of modularity by a specific construction.






            share|cite|improve this answer












            Yes this reverse is also true



            If there were a counterexample for FLT, it would also provide a counterexample of modularity by a specific construction.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Nov 15 at 22:05









            Mathaddict

            1444




            1444








            • 1




              The reverse implication of $Arightarrow B$ is $Brightarrow A$, not $neg Brightarrow neg A$.
              – eyeballfrog
              Nov 15 at 22:08










            • Yes, however this is actually an if and only if implication not just a one way.
              – Mathaddict
              Nov 15 at 22:09










            • So you're saying that if there is any non-modular elliptic curve, it could be used to construct a counterexample to FLT?
              – eyeballfrog
              Nov 15 at 22:11












            • No, that's what Wile's proof did (and then went on to prove that they don't exist), I'm saying that if there were a counterexample to FLT then it could be used to construct a non-modular semistable eliptic curve which would contradict modularity.
              – Mathaddict
              Nov 15 at 22:15
















            • 1




              The reverse implication of $Arightarrow B$ is $Brightarrow A$, not $neg Brightarrow neg A$.
              – eyeballfrog
              Nov 15 at 22:08










            • Yes, however this is actually an if and only if implication not just a one way.
              – Mathaddict
              Nov 15 at 22:09










            • So you're saying that if there is any non-modular elliptic curve, it could be used to construct a counterexample to FLT?
              – eyeballfrog
              Nov 15 at 22:11












            • No, that's what Wile's proof did (and then went on to prove that they don't exist), I'm saying that if there were a counterexample to FLT then it could be used to construct a non-modular semistable eliptic curve which would contradict modularity.
              – Mathaddict
              Nov 15 at 22:15










            1




            1




            The reverse implication of $Arightarrow B$ is $Brightarrow A$, not $neg Brightarrow neg A$.
            – eyeballfrog
            Nov 15 at 22:08




            The reverse implication of $Arightarrow B$ is $Brightarrow A$, not $neg Brightarrow neg A$.
            – eyeballfrog
            Nov 15 at 22:08












            Yes, however this is actually an if and only if implication not just a one way.
            – Mathaddict
            Nov 15 at 22:09




            Yes, however this is actually an if and only if implication not just a one way.
            – Mathaddict
            Nov 15 at 22:09












            So you're saying that if there is any non-modular elliptic curve, it could be used to construct a counterexample to FLT?
            – eyeballfrog
            Nov 15 at 22:11






            So you're saying that if there is any non-modular elliptic curve, it could be used to construct a counterexample to FLT?
            – eyeballfrog
            Nov 15 at 22:11














            No, that's what Wile's proof did (and then went on to prove that they don't exist), I'm saying that if there were a counterexample to FLT then it could be used to construct a non-modular semistable eliptic curve which would contradict modularity.
            – Mathaddict
            Nov 15 at 22:15






            No, that's what Wile's proof did (and then went on to prove that they don't exist), I'm saying that if there were a counterexample to FLT then it could be used to construct a non-modular semistable eliptic curve which would contradict modularity.
            – Mathaddict
            Nov 15 at 22:15




















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