Has alcohol ever been consumed in space?












49












$begingroup$


Conversation at the bar led to space travel, and whether each of us would commit to the journey to Mars. It came up that instead of going to the bar, you would need to brew your own beer.



This led to the question:



Has alcohol ever been consumed in space?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 7




    $begingroup$
    I don't often upvote a post six seconds after reading the title... but when I do it's about alcohol.
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Dec 18 '18 at 1:20






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    We reside within space, so yes. I assume you mean outer space. I know it's splitting hairs but this one grinds my gears.
    $endgroup$
    – RobbyReindeer
    Dec 18 '18 at 10:21








  • 11




    $begingroup$
    @RobbyReindeer you're right, I agree. Although, generally, readers of StackExchange are humans, and humans have brain features that allow them to understand meaning from context. For instance, alcohol here refers to beverages containing ethanol, although it's not clearly specified.
    $endgroup$
    – magma
    Dec 18 '18 at 13:16








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @RobbyReindeer Can you specify which particular gears this grinds? I suppose a split hair could grind a small gear, but I don't know how a word usage issue would do it, and I'm looking to learn.
    $endgroup$
    – Geobits
    Dec 18 '18 at 18:38


















49












$begingroup$


Conversation at the bar led to space travel, and whether each of us would commit to the journey to Mars. It came up that instead of going to the bar, you would need to brew your own beer.



This led to the question:



Has alcohol ever been consumed in space?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 7




    $begingroup$
    I don't often upvote a post six seconds after reading the title... but when I do it's about alcohol.
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Dec 18 '18 at 1:20






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    We reside within space, so yes. I assume you mean outer space. I know it's splitting hairs but this one grinds my gears.
    $endgroup$
    – RobbyReindeer
    Dec 18 '18 at 10:21








  • 11




    $begingroup$
    @RobbyReindeer you're right, I agree. Although, generally, readers of StackExchange are humans, and humans have brain features that allow them to understand meaning from context. For instance, alcohol here refers to beverages containing ethanol, although it's not clearly specified.
    $endgroup$
    – magma
    Dec 18 '18 at 13:16








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @RobbyReindeer Can you specify which particular gears this grinds? I suppose a split hair could grind a small gear, but I don't know how a word usage issue would do it, and I'm looking to learn.
    $endgroup$
    – Geobits
    Dec 18 '18 at 18:38
















49












49








49


6



$begingroup$


Conversation at the bar led to space travel, and whether each of us would commit to the journey to Mars. It came up that instead of going to the bar, you would need to brew your own beer.



This led to the question:



Has alcohol ever been consumed in space?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Conversation at the bar led to space travel, and whether each of us would commit to the journey to Mars. It came up that instead of going to the bar, you would need to brew your own beer.



This led to the question:



Has alcohol ever been consumed in space?







food






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Dec 16 '18 at 9:43









Glorfindel

1971110




1971110










asked Dec 16 '18 at 4:06









Matt ClarkMatt Clark

3701310




3701310








  • 7




    $begingroup$
    I don't often upvote a post six seconds after reading the title... but when I do it's about alcohol.
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Dec 18 '18 at 1:20






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    We reside within space, so yes. I assume you mean outer space. I know it's splitting hairs but this one grinds my gears.
    $endgroup$
    – RobbyReindeer
    Dec 18 '18 at 10:21








  • 11




    $begingroup$
    @RobbyReindeer you're right, I agree. Although, generally, readers of StackExchange are humans, and humans have brain features that allow them to understand meaning from context. For instance, alcohol here refers to beverages containing ethanol, although it's not clearly specified.
    $endgroup$
    – magma
    Dec 18 '18 at 13:16








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @RobbyReindeer Can you specify which particular gears this grinds? I suppose a split hair could grind a small gear, but I don't know how a word usage issue would do it, and I'm looking to learn.
    $endgroup$
    – Geobits
    Dec 18 '18 at 18:38
















  • 7




    $begingroup$
    I don't often upvote a post six seconds after reading the title... but when I do it's about alcohol.
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Dec 18 '18 at 1:20






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    We reside within space, so yes. I assume you mean outer space. I know it's splitting hairs but this one grinds my gears.
    $endgroup$
    – RobbyReindeer
    Dec 18 '18 at 10:21








  • 11




    $begingroup$
    @RobbyReindeer you're right, I agree. Although, generally, readers of StackExchange are humans, and humans have brain features that allow them to understand meaning from context. For instance, alcohol here refers to beverages containing ethanol, although it's not clearly specified.
    $endgroup$
    – magma
    Dec 18 '18 at 13:16








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @RobbyReindeer Can you specify which particular gears this grinds? I suppose a split hair could grind a small gear, but I don't know how a word usage issue would do it, and I'm looking to learn.
    $endgroup$
    – Geobits
    Dec 18 '18 at 18:38










7




7




$begingroup$
I don't often upvote a post six seconds after reading the title... but when I do it's about alcohol.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
Dec 18 '18 at 1:20




$begingroup$
I don't often upvote a post six seconds after reading the title... but when I do it's about alcohol.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
Dec 18 '18 at 1:20




3




3




$begingroup$
We reside within space, so yes. I assume you mean outer space. I know it's splitting hairs but this one grinds my gears.
$endgroup$
– RobbyReindeer
Dec 18 '18 at 10:21






$begingroup$
We reside within space, so yes. I assume you mean outer space. I know it's splitting hairs but this one grinds my gears.
$endgroup$
– RobbyReindeer
Dec 18 '18 at 10:21






11




11




$begingroup$
@RobbyReindeer you're right, I agree. Although, generally, readers of StackExchange are humans, and humans have brain features that allow them to understand meaning from context. For instance, alcohol here refers to beverages containing ethanol, although it's not clearly specified.
$endgroup$
– magma
Dec 18 '18 at 13:16






$begingroup$
@RobbyReindeer you're right, I agree. Although, generally, readers of StackExchange are humans, and humans have brain features that allow them to understand meaning from context. For instance, alcohol here refers to beverages containing ethanol, although it's not clearly specified.
$endgroup$
– magma
Dec 18 '18 at 13:16






4




4




$begingroup$
@RobbyReindeer Can you specify which particular gears this grinds? I suppose a split hair could grind a small gear, but I don't know how a word usage issue would do it, and I'm looking to learn.
$endgroup$
– Geobits
Dec 18 '18 at 18:38






$begingroup$
@RobbyReindeer Can you specify which particular gears this grinds? I suppose a split hair could grind a small gear, but I don't know how a word usage issue would do it, and I'm looking to learn.
$endgroup$
– Geobits
Dec 18 '18 at 18:38












5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















81












$begingroup$

Brandy was sent along with Apollo 8’s Christmas dinner -- a 2-oz airline bottle each -- but mission commander Borman, out of an abundance of caution, ordered his crew not to partake. Jim Lovell sold his Apollo 8 brandy ration at auction ten years ago.



Buzz Aldrin took a sip of wine for communion on the surface of the moon during Apollo 11.



Russian crews on Mir and ISS have definitely partaken of vodka.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    9












    $begingroup$

    I asked Oleg Kotov this exact question.



    He told me that alcohol went missing from some medical kit on the ISS and was most certainly consumed in space.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Why is the hat a thing? It's green... (if you know what I mean)
      $endgroup$
      – Boosted Nub
      Dec 18 '18 at 8:42








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @BoostedNub The hat is because of Ted...
      $endgroup$
      – speedymcs
      Dec 18 '18 at 9:37






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @BoostedNub Because it's hat season, of course!
      $endgroup$
      – brichins
      Dec 18 '18 at 20:49






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Is there any sort of recorded/written source where you asked this/he responded/
      $endgroup$
      – V2Blast
      Dec 18 '18 at 23:33



















    5












    $begingroup$

    During the Salyut 1 mission, the birthday of one of the cosmonauts was celebrated with a very small amount of alcohol, as far as I have read.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.














    • $begingroup$
      Do you have a source that supports this assertion?
      $endgroup$
      – V2Blast
      Dec 18 '18 at 23:32



















    4












    $begingroup$

    One of the stories goes that small amounts of alcohol was hidden in the Russian space ship. During periods of conflicts between astronauts, command center would assign the crew members to the task that would inevitably lead to the discovery of that alcohol.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Do you have any reliable sources for this?
      $endgroup$
      – Mark
      Dec 17 '18 at 22:15






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Nope! It's just a story I heard from a usually credible narrator. I found it interesting and hence am sharing it.
      $endgroup$
      – Peter Chikov
      Dec 17 '18 at 23:12



















    4












    $begingroup$

    I also hear from someone close to an Astronaut that they manage to sneak alcohol into their personal belongings and smuggle it into space.



    Additional Reference: https://www.rbth.com/science_and_tech/2017/04/12/space-smugglers-how-russian-cosmonauts-sneak-booze-into-outer-space_740566






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












      protected by Hobbes Dec 18 '18 at 14:09



      Thank you for your interest in this question.
      Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



      Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?














      5 Answers
      5






      active

      oldest

      votes








      5 Answers
      5






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      81












      $begingroup$

      Brandy was sent along with Apollo 8’s Christmas dinner -- a 2-oz airline bottle each -- but mission commander Borman, out of an abundance of caution, ordered his crew not to partake. Jim Lovell sold his Apollo 8 brandy ration at auction ten years ago.



      Buzz Aldrin took a sip of wine for communion on the surface of the moon during Apollo 11.



      Russian crews on Mir and ISS have definitely partaken of vodka.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$


















        81












        $begingroup$

        Brandy was sent along with Apollo 8’s Christmas dinner -- a 2-oz airline bottle each -- but mission commander Borman, out of an abundance of caution, ordered his crew not to partake. Jim Lovell sold his Apollo 8 brandy ration at auction ten years ago.



        Buzz Aldrin took a sip of wine for communion on the surface of the moon during Apollo 11.



        Russian crews on Mir and ISS have definitely partaken of vodka.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$
















          81












          81








          81





          $begingroup$

          Brandy was sent along with Apollo 8’s Christmas dinner -- a 2-oz airline bottle each -- but mission commander Borman, out of an abundance of caution, ordered his crew not to partake. Jim Lovell sold his Apollo 8 brandy ration at auction ten years ago.



          Buzz Aldrin took a sip of wine for communion on the surface of the moon during Apollo 11.



          Russian crews on Mir and ISS have definitely partaken of vodka.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Brandy was sent along with Apollo 8’s Christmas dinner -- a 2-oz airline bottle each -- but mission commander Borman, out of an abundance of caution, ordered his crew not to partake. Jim Lovell sold his Apollo 8 brandy ration at auction ten years ago.



          Buzz Aldrin took a sip of wine for communion on the surface of the moon during Apollo 11.



          Russian crews on Mir and ISS have definitely partaken of vodka.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Dec 25 '18 at 4:52

























          answered Dec 16 '18 at 4:48









          Russell BorogoveRussell Borogove

          87k3291376




          87k3291376























              9












              $begingroup$

              I asked Oleg Kotov this exact question.



              He told me that alcohol went missing from some medical kit on the ISS and was most certainly consumed in space.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$









              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Why is the hat a thing? It's green... (if you know what I mean)
                $endgroup$
                – Boosted Nub
                Dec 18 '18 at 8:42








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @BoostedNub The hat is because of Ted...
                $endgroup$
                – speedymcs
                Dec 18 '18 at 9:37






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                @BoostedNub Because it's hat season, of course!
                $endgroup$
                – brichins
                Dec 18 '18 at 20:49






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Is there any sort of recorded/written source where you asked this/he responded/
                $endgroup$
                – V2Blast
                Dec 18 '18 at 23:33
















              9












              $begingroup$

              I asked Oleg Kotov this exact question.



              He told me that alcohol went missing from some medical kit on the ISS and was most certainly consumed in space.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$









              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Why is the hat a thing? It's green... (if you know what I mean)
                $endgroup$
                – Boosted Nub
                Dec 18 '18 at 8:42








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @BoostedNub The hat is because of Ted...
                $endgroup$
                – speedymcs
                Dec 18 '18 at 9:37






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                @BoostedNub Because it's hat season, of course!
                $endgroup$
                – brichins
                Dec 18 '18 at 20:49






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Is there any sort of recorded/written source where you asked this/he responded/
                $endgroup$
                – V2Blast
                Dec 18 '18 at 23:33














              9












              9








              9





              $begingroup$

              I asked Oleg Kotov this exact question.



              He told me that alcohol went missing from some medical kit on the ISS and was most certainly consumed in space.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              I asked Oleg Kotov this exact question.



              He told me that alcohol went missing from some medical kit on the ISS and was most certainly consumed in space.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered Dec 18 '18 at 4:38









              trappertrapper

              1912




              1912








              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Why is the hat a thing? It's green... (if you know what I mean)
                $endgroup$
                – Boosted Nub
                Dec 18 '18 at 8:42








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @BoostedNub The hat is because of Ted...
                $endgroup$
                – speedymcs
                Dec 18 '18 at 9:37






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                @BoostedNub Because it's hat season, of course!
                $endgroup$
                – brichins
                Dec 18 '18 at 20:49






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Is there any sort of recorded/written source where you asked this/he responded/
                $endgroup$
                – V2Blast
                Dec 18 '18 at 23:33














              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Why is the hat a thing? It's green... (if you know what I mean)
                $endgroup$
                – Boosted Nub
                Dec 18 '18 at 8:42








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @BoostedNub The hat is because of Ted...
                $endgroup$
                – speedymcs
                Dec 18 '18 at 9:37






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                @BoostedNub Because it's hat season, of course!
                $endgroup$
                – brichins
                Dec 18 '18 at 20:49






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Is there any sort of recorded/written source where you asked this/he responded/
                $endgroup$
                – V2Blast
                Dec 18 '18 at 23:33








              2




              2




              $begingroup$
              Why is the hat a thing? It's green... (if you know what I mean)
              $endgroup$
              – Boosted Nub
              Dec 18 '18 at 8:42






              $begingroup$
              Why is the hat a thing? It's green... (if you know what I mean)
              $endgroup$
              – Boosted Nub
              Dec 18 '18 at 8:42






              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              @BoostedNub The hat is because of Ted...
              $endgroup$
              – speedymcs
              Dec 18 '18 at 9:37




              $begingroup$
              @BoostedNub The hat is because of Ted...
              $endgroup$
              – speedymcs
              Dec 18 '18 at 9:37




              2




              2




              $begingroup$
              @BoostedNub Because it's hat season, of course!
              $endgroup$
              – brichins
              Dec 18 '18 at 20:49




              $begingroup$
              @BoostedNub Because it's hat season, of course!
              $endgroup$
              – brichins
              Dec 18 '18 at 20:49




              2




              2




              $begingroup$
              Is there any sort of recorded/written source where you asked this/he responded/
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              Dec 18 '18 at 23:33




              $begingroup$
              Is there any sort of recorded/written source where you asked this/he responded/
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              Dec 18 '18 at 23:33











              5












              $begingroup$

              During the Salyut 1 mission, the birthday of one of the cosmonauts was celebrated with a very small amount of alcohol, as far as I have read.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.














              • $begingroup$
                Do you have a source that supports this assertion?
                $endgroup$
                – V2Blast
                Dec 18 '18 at 23:32
















              5












              $begingroup$

              During the Salyut 1 mission, the birthday of one of the cosmonauts was celebrated with a very small amount of alcohol, as far as I have read.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.














              • $begingroup$
                Do you have a source that supports this assertion?
                $endgroup$
                – V2Blast
                Dec 18 '18 at 23:32














              5












              5








              5





              $begingroup$

              During the Salyut 1 mission, the birthday of one of the cosmonauts was celebrated with a very small amount of alcohol, as far as I have read.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              During the Salyut 1 mission, the birthday of one of the cosmonauts was celebrated with a very small amount of alcohol, as far as I have read.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered Dec 17 '18 at 0:42









              namename

              591




              591



              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.




              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.













              • $begingroup$
                Do you have a source that supports this assertion?
                $endgroup$
                – V2Blast
                Dec 18 '18 at 23:32


















              • $begingroup$
                Do you have a source that supports this assertion?
                $endgroup$
                – V2Blast
                Dec 18 '18 at 23:32
















              $begingroup$
              Do you have a source that supports this assertion?
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              Dec 18 '18 at 23:32




              $begingroup$
              Do you have a source that supports this assertion?
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              Dec 18 '18 at 23:32











              4












              $begingroup$

              One of the stories goes that small amounts of alcohol was hidden in the Russian space ship. During periods of conflicts between astronauts, command center would assign the crew members to the task that would inevitably lead to the discovery of that alcohol.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










              • 4




                $begingroup$
                Do you have any reliable sources for this?
                $endgroup$
                – Mark
                Dec 17 '18 at 22:15






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Nope! It's just a story I heard from a usually credible narrator. I found it interesting and hence am sharing it.
                $endgroup$
                – Peter Chikov
                Dec 17 '18 at 23:12
















              4












              $begingroup$

              One of the stories goes that small amounts of alcohol was hidden in the Russian space ship. During periods of conflicts between astronauts, command center would assign the crew members to the task that would inevitably lead to the discovery of that alcohol.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










              • 4




                $begingroup$
                Do you have any reliable sources for this?
                $endgroup$
                – Mark
                Dec 17 '18 at 22:15






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Nope! It's just a story I heard from a usually credible narrator. I found it interesting and hence am sharing it.
                $endgroup$
                – Peter Chikov
                Dec 17 '18 at 23:12














              4












              4








              4





              $begingroup$

              One of the stories goes that small amounts of alcohol was hidden in the Russian space ship. During periods of conflicts between astronauts, command center would assign the crew members to the task that would inevitably lead to the discovery of that alcohol.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              One of the stories goes that small amounts of alcohol was hidden in the Russian space ship. During periods of conflicts between astronauts, command center would assign the crew members to the task that would inevitably lead to the discovery of that alcohol.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered Dec 17 '18 at 20:21









              Peter ChikovPeter Chikov

              513




              513



              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.




              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.









              • 4




                $begingroup$
                Do you have any reliable sources for this?
                $endgroup$
                – Mark
                Dec 17 '18 at 22:15






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Nope! It's just a story I heard from a usually credible narrator. I found it interesting and hence am sharing it.
                $endgroup$
                – Peter Chikov
                Dec 17 '18 at 23:12














              • 4




                $begingroup$
                Do you have any reliable sources for this?
                $endgroup$
                – Mark
                Dec 17 '18 at 22:15






              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Nope! It's just a story I heard from a usually credible narrator. I found it interesting and hence am sharing it.
                $endgroup$
                – Peter Chikov
                Dec 17 '18 at 23:12








              4




              4




              $begingroup$
              Do you have any reliable sources for this?
              $endgroup$
              – Mark
              Dec 17 '18 at 22:15




              $begingroup$
              Do you have any reliable sources for this?
              $endgroup$
              – Mark
              Dec 17 '18 at 22:15




              2




              2




              $begingroup$
              Nope! It's just a story I heard from a usually credible narrator. I found it interesting and hence am sharing it.
              $endgroup$
              – Peter Chikov
              Dec 17 '18 at 23:12




              $begingroup$
              Nope! It's just a story I heard from a usually credible narrator. I found it interesting and hence am sharing it.
              $endgroup$
              – Peter Chikov
              Dec 17 '18 at 23:12











              4












              $begingroup$

              I also hear from someone close to an Astronaut that they manage to sneak alcohol into their personal belongings and smuggle it into space.



              Additional Reference: https://www.rbth.com/science_and_tech/2017/04/12/space-smugglers-how-russian-cosmonauts-sneak-booze-into-outer-space_740566






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                4












                $begingroup$

                I also hear from someone close to an Astronaut that they manage to sneak alcohol into their personal belongings and smuggle it into space.



                Additional Reference: https://www.rbth.com/science_and_tech/2017/04/12/space-smugglers-how-russian-cosmonauts-sneak-booze-into-outer-space_740566






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  4












                  4








                  4





                  $begingroup$

                  I also hear from someone close to an Astronaut that they manage to sneak alcohol into their personal belongings and smuggle it into space.



                  Additional Reference: https://www.rbth.com/science_and_tech/2017/04/12/space-smugglers-how-russian-cosmonauts-sneak-booze-into-outer-space_740566






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  I also hear from someone close to an Astronaut that they manage to sneak alcohol into their personal belongings and smuggle it into space.



                  Additional Reference: https://www.rbth.com/science_and_tech/2017/04/12/space-smugglers-how-russian-cosmonauts-sneak-booze-into-outer-space_740566







                  share|improve this answer














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                  edited Dec 18 '18 at 15:34









                  Peter Chikov

                  513




                  513










                  answered Dec 18 '18 at 10:15









                  HansHans

                  1,793520




                  1,793520

















                      protected by Hobbes Dec 18 '18 at 14:09



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