Does Umbridge's speech really say that “the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts”?





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At the start-of-the-term dinner, Dolores Umbridge interrupts Albus Dumbledore and gives a lengthy and quite strange speech. As summarized in the book,




Hermione Granger: There was some important stuff hidden in the waffle.



Ron Weasley: Was there?



Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"? How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?



Ron Weasley: Well, what does that mean?



Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts.




Of course Miss Granger is a genius and I am not, but I do not see any way to infer "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" from what Umbridge actually said.



Could you help explain how this was inferred? Is the speech supposed to mean something like "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" to a normal reader, or is it just a Sherlock Holmes-like move to show us how clever Hermione is?










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    25















    At the start-of-the-term dinner, Dolores Umbridge interrupts Albus Dumbledore and gives a lengthy and quite strange speech. As summarized in the book,




    Hermione Granger: There was some important stuff hidden in the waffle.



    Ron Weasley: Was there?



    Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"? How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?



    Ron Weasley: Well, what does that mean?



    Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts.




    Of course Miss Granger is a genius and I am not, but I do not see any way to infer "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" from what Umbridge actually said.



    Could you help explain how this was inferred? Is the speech supposed to mean something like "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" to a normal reader, or is it just a Sherlock Holmes-like move to show us how clever Hermione is?










    share|improve this question



























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      25








      25


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      At the start-of-the-term dinner, Dolores Umbridge interrupts Albus Dumbledore and gives a lengthy and quite strange speech. As summarized in the book,




      Hermione Granger: There was some important stuff hidden in the waffle.



      Ron Weasley: Was there?



      Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"? How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?



      Ron Weasley: Well, what does that mean?



      Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts.




      Of course Miss Granger is a genius and I am not, but I do not see any way to infer "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" from what Umbridge actually said.



      Could you help explain how this was inferred? Is the speech supposed to mean something like "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" to a normal reader, or is it just a Sherlock Holmes-like move to show us how clever Hermione is?










      share|improve this question
















      At the start-of-the-term dinner, Dolores Umbridge interrupts Albus Dumbledore and gives a lengthy and quite strange speech. As summarized in the book,




      Hermione Granger: There was some important stuff hidden in the waffle.



      Ron Weasley: Was there?



      Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"? How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?



      Ron Weasley: Well, what does that mean?



      Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts.




      Of course Miss Granger is a genius and I am not, but I do not see any way to infer "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" from what Umbridge actually said.



      Could you help explain how this was inferred? Is the speech supposed to mean something like "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" to a normal reader, or is it just a Sherlock Holmes-like move to show us how clever Hermione is?







      harry-potter






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      edited Jan 10 at 9:28







      se0808

















      asked Dec 30 '18 at 7:44









      se0808se0808

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          Umbridge spoke for a long time, but only small snippets of it are recorded in the book. While it is theoretically possible that she said some stuff "off-screen" that gave away that the Ministry would be interfering, for the sake of answering this question let's assume that we have enough information in the parts that we saw.



          Here are the snippets of her speech:




          "The Ministry of Magic has always considered the
          education of young witches and wizards to be of vital
          importance. The rare gifts with which you were born
          may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by
          careful instruction. The ancient skills unique to the
          Wizarding community must be passed down through
          the generations lest we lose them forever. The
          treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our
          ancestors must be guarded, replenished, and polished
          by those who have been called to the noble profession
          of teaching."







          "Every headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts has
          brought something new to the weighty task of
          governing this historic school, and that is as it should
          be, for without progress there will be stagnation and
          decay. There again, progress for progress’s sake must
          be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions
          often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between
          old and new, between permanence and change,
          between tradition and innovation..."







          "... because some changes will be for the better, while
          others will come, in the fullness of time, to be
          recognized as errors of judgment. Meanwhile, some
          old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas
          others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned.
          Let us move forward, then, into a new era of
          openness, effectiveness, and accountability, intent on
          preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting
          what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we
          find practices that ought to be prohibited."




          I would argue that none of the concepts Umbridge discusses actually indicate Ministry interference. The first paragraph points out the unique mission of Hogwarts, the second paragraph points out that every headmaster changes things up a bit, and a certain balance is necessary, and the third paragraph says that we have to constantly look back and see if we are making things better or worse.



          I don't think any of that is particularly controversial. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if other headmasters made similar speeches upon starting at Hogwarts (though I'd expect some of them to at least have the sense to not give the speech to a room full of sleepy, inattentive students).



          I think that the entire issue here is with the very first sentence:




          The Ministry of Magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance.




          Everyone agrees that education is important, and should be done properly. So why mention the Ministry here? I would argue that it is this insertion that is the indicator of Ministry interference. By telling us that the Ministry values education, she is saying that whatever follows (e.g. some things need to be reevaluated) will be Ministry-oriented. Had she left out the first sentence there would have been no indication of Ministry interference (though there might have been indication of her own interference).



          In fact, we can make an observation based on the reactions of others besides Hermione. During the speech we find the following:




          Professor McGonagall’s dark eyebrows had
          contracted so that she looked positively hawklike, and
          Harry distinctly saw her exchange a significant glance
          with Professor Sprout as Umbridge gave another little
          "Hem, hem" and went on with her speech.




          Yet, interestingly, this does not occur after the second or third paragraph, which is where Umbridge actually lays out what the "interference" would consist of. Instead, it occurs after the first paragraph when all Umbridge said is that the Ministry values education. It would seem, then, that McGonagall and Sprout already realized something was up, just from the first paragraph. If so, it was probably from the mention of the Ministry, because as noted above that is entirely superfluous unless the Ministry will be interfering.



          Therefore, I would assume that Hermione also figured out right from the start that Umbridge would be initiating Ministry interference. The specific examples mentioned by Hermione (and the other answers here) are just that — examples of how the Ministry will be interfering once we already know that they will be interfering.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 7





            I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).

            – se0808
            Dec 30 '18 at 20:06








          • 3





            I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.

            – Tim B
            Jan 2 at 13:53











          • @TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.

            – Alex
            Jan 3 at 1:01













          • @se0808 Gotta disagree - the book literally has Hermione state which phrases were telling, and they aren't just the first line. The other phrases matter because they indicate that Umbridge (aka Ministry) don't want change, all while Dumbledore is trying to call the wizarding to action by repeatedly announcing that Voldemort is back. It's as simple as that - Dumbledore is trying to shake up the world, the Ministry is trying to stop him, and Umbridges speech plainly identifies her as a Ministry figurehead planted at Hogwarts, hence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts."

            – DavidS
            Jan 10 at 14:29








          • 3





            @DavidS I didn’t say the other phrased don’t matter. What I said was that without the opening line it wouldn’t prove that it’s the Ministry that’s interfering. I explicitly stated that the other phrases are examples of how the Ministry will be interfering.

            – Alex
            Jan 10 at 15:23



















          79















          "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"




          Who decides whether an innovation is a good thing or just "progress for progress's sake"?




          "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?




          Which practices are those, and who are "we"?



          Both of these implicitly assume a judgement on what should be discouraged or prohibited. Since Umbridge was appointed by the Ministry it follows that it is the Ministry judgement that will be applied. Presumably in the past the Headmaster of Hogwarts was free to run the school as he saw fit, answerable only to the Board of Governors. Umbridge's speech was a coded announcement that in the future the Ministry would be setting policy directly, which is what Hermione described as "interfering".






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          • 14





            The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.

            – Nobody
            Dec 30 '18 at 18:55






          • 7





            More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?

            – WhatRoughBeast
            Dec 30 '18 at 23:43






          • 6





            Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.

            – Frank Hopkins
            Dec 31 '18 at 13:28








          • 2





            Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!

            – Sean
            Dec 31 '18 at 19:05








          • 5





            +1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)

            – ruakh
            Dec 31 '18 at 22:55



















          58














          To understand this you have to appreciate that the Harry Potter series of books were not written in a vacuum, and that JK Rowling is a politically active person. The idea of the British Government interfering in education has been an issue here for a couple of decades and Rowling's works mirror the real world situation in the UK in her Wizarding world.



          The words of Dolores Umbridge reflect the typical doublespeak that politicians use in the real word. "Progress for progress's sake should be discouraged" means that you should not do something progressive just because you can, in our world it would be something like the right of gay marriage.



          "Pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited" means stopping the schools from teaching subjects that the Ministry did not approve of, such as Muggle studies. In the real world, in Britain, subjects such as music teaching and media studies had reduced funding.



          The Ministry is not allowing the staff at Hogwarts to make its own policies about what it should teach and how it should teach them, that's how the Ministry of Magic is interfering.






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          • 8





            Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1

            – Mindwin
            Dec 31 '18 at 10:55






          • 7





            While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.

            – William Grobman
            Dec 31 '18 at 13:39








          • 5





            I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.

            – Adamant
            Dec 31 '18 at 18:17








          • 3





            As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.

            – Adamant
            Dec 31 '18 at 18:19








          • 1





            Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.

            – Adamant
            Jan 4 at 16:35





















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          Dumbledore was the headmaster of Hogwarts, whereas Umbridge was just an underling working under the direction of the headmaster. For Umbridge to publicly pass absolute judgements against the policies or philosophies of Hogwarts was not a constructive action but therefore a hostile one. Dolores was able to get away with inappropriate and socially out-of-place comments like that because she had the protection of the Ministry to fall back on, hence the reason for Hermione's comment. It doesn't take a genius to see that, all you have to do is pay attention to what is going on around you, as Hermione often did.






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            This speech is part of a larger pattern of events between the Ministry and Dumbledore. Hermione has picked up on this context to correctly deduce it's meaning.



            The context is vital to understanding what is going on here. Umbridges speech is made far more meaningful when remembering the circumstances in which it is being given.



            Consider that for the previous few months Dumbledore has been trying to convince the world that Voldemort has returned, and that the Ministry has been actively opposing him. The world is comfortable, and any hint that the status quo is about to be breaking is regarded as distressing and unwelcome. After all, we see how the Minister of Magic responds when he's told Voldemort is back...




            "It seems to me that you are all determined
            to start a panic that will destabilize everything we have worked for
            these last thirteen years!"



            Harry couldn't believe what he was hearing. He had always thought of
            Fudge as a kindly figure, a little blustering, a little pompous, but
            essentially good­natured. But now a short, angry wizard stood before
            him, refusing, point­blank, to accept the prospect of disruption in
            his comfortable and ordered world
            , to believe that Voldemort could
            have risen.




            The conversation continues onwards with Dumbledore and the Minister actively opposing each other, leading to Fudge threatening the autonomy of Dumbledore and the school in general.




            "If your determination to shut your eyes will carry you as far as
            this, Cornelius," said Dumbledore, "we have reached a parting of the ways. You must act
            as you see fit. And I...I shall act as I see fit.
            "



            Dumbledore's voice carried no hint of a threat; it sounded like a mere
            statement, but Fudge bristled as though Dumbledore were advancing upon
            him with a wand.



            "Now, see here, Dumbledore," he said, waving a threatening finger.
            "I've given you free rein, always. I've had a lot of respect for you.
            I might not have agreed with some of your decisions, but I've kept
            quiet. There aren't many who'd have let you hire werewolves, or keep
            Hagrid, or decide what to teach your students without reference to the
            Ministry. But if you're going to work against me ..."




            The exchange ends with an indication that Fudge is going to clamp down on Dumbledore's running of Hogwarts.




            "I will be in touch with you tomorrow, Dumbledore, to discuss the
            running of this school
            . I must return to the Ministry."




            Dumbledore, for his part, ignores Fudges threats and starts to spread the truth, starting with Hogwarts.




            "Cedric Diggory was murdered by Lord Voldemort."



            A panicked whisper swept the Great Hall. People were staring at
            Dumbledore in disbelief, in horror. He looked perfectly calm as he
            watched them mutter themselves into silence.



            "The Ministry of Magic," Dumbledore continued, "does not wish me to
            tell you this."




            The campaign of information and attempts to rouse the public continues all summer, with the Ministry growing actively more frustrated and devious in their attempts to discredit Dumbledore and Harry and clamp down on the behaviour. Hermione - living at the headquarters of the Order and being friends with Harry (who tells them everything), is well aware of all this, explaining to Harry:




            But you see what they’re doing? They want to turn you into someone
            nobody will believe. Fudge is behind it, I’ll bet anything.
            "




            When Umbridge - a known Ministry toady - is appointed to Hogwarts, it's not a huge leap to assume she's there to continue these efforts. Note that Hermione already suspects this from the moment they spot Umbridge at the the feast, before the speech.




            "She works for Fudge!" Hermione repeated, frowning. "What on earth’s
            she doing here, then?"



            "Dunno..."



            Hermione scanned the staff table, her eyes narrowed. "No," she muttered, "no, surely not..."




            And the actual content of the speech perfectly aligns with these suspicions - the content (as @TimB excellently put it in the comments) "reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good".



            In other words - the Ministry wants to keep things as they are, and so it emphasises the importance of "traditional values" and discourages change...




            Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be
            discouraged"?




            ...while casually threatening those who would seek to upset the existing system...




            How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be
            prohibited"?






            In Summary



            All of this - the rabble-rousing of Dumbledore, the attempts by the Ministry to control him and continue with "business as usual", the installation of a Ministry-appointed teacher at Hogwarts, and Umbridge interrupting Dumbledore to give her own pro-traditionalist speech at the feast clearly indicates one thing...




            Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's
            interfering at Hogwarts.







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              Umbridge spoke for a long time, but only small snippets of it are recorded in the book. While it is theoretically possible that she said some stuff "off-screen" that gave away that the Ministry would be interfering, for the sake of answering this question let's assume that we have enough information in the parts that we saw.



              Here are the snippets of her speech:




              "The Ministry of Magic has always considered the
              education of young witches and wizards to be of vital
              importance. The rare gifts with which you were born
              may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by
              careful instruction. The ancient skills unique to the
              Wizarding community must be passed down through
              the generations lest we lose them forever. The
              treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our
              ancestors must be guarded, replenished, and polished
              by those who have been called to the noble profession
              of teaching."







              "Every headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts has
              brought something new to the weighty task of
              governing this historic school, and that is as it should
              be, for without progress there will be stagnation and
              decay. There again, progress for progress’s sake must
              be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions
              often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between
              old and new, between permanence and change,
              between tradition and innovation..."







              "... because some changes will be for the better, while
              others will come, in the fullness of time, to be
              recognized as errors of judgment. Meanwhile, some
              old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas
              others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned.
              Let us move forward, then, into a new era of
              openness, effectiveness, and accountability, intent on
              preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting
              what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we
              find practices that ought to be prohibited."




              I would argue that none of the concepts Umbridge discusses actually indicate Ministry interference. The first paragraph points out the unique mission of Hogwarts, the second paragraph points out that every headmaster changes things up a bit, and a certain balance is necessary, and the third paragraph says that we have to constantly look back and see if we are making things better or worse.



              I don't think any of that is particularly controversial. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if other headmasters made similar speeches upon starting at Hogwarts (though I'd expect some of them to at least have the sense to not give the speech to a room full of sleepy, inattentive students).



              I think that the entire issue here is with the very first sentence:




              The Ministry of Magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance.




              Everyone agrees that education is important, and should be done properly. So why mention the Ministry here? I would argue that it is this insertion that is the indicator of Ministry interference. By telling us that the Ministry values education, she is saying that whatever follows (e.g. some things need to be reevaluated) will be Ministry-oriented. Had she left out the first sentence there would have been no indication of Ministry interference (though there might have been indication of her own interference).



              In fact, we can make an observation based on the reactions of others besides Hermione. During the speech we find the following:




              Professor McGonagall’s dark eyebrows had
              contracted so that she looked positively hawklike, and
              Harry distinctly saw her exchange a significant glance
              with Professor Sprout as Umbridge gave another little
              "Hem, hem" and went on with her speech.




              Yet, interestingly, this does not occur after the second or third paragraph, which is where Umbridge actually lays out what the "interference" would consist of. Instead, it occurs after the first paragraph when all Umbridge said is that the Ministry values education. It would seem, then, that McGonagall and Sprout already realized something was up, just from the first paragraph. If so, it was probably from the mention of the Ministry, because as noted above that is entirely superfluous unless the Ministry will be interfering.



              Therefore, I would assume that Hermione also figured out right from the start that Umbridge would be initiating Ministry interference. The specific examples mentioned by Hermione (and the other answers here) are just that — examples of how the Ministry will be interfering once we already know that they will be interfering.






              share|improve this answer





















              • 7





                I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).

                – se0808
                Dec 30 '18 at 20:06








              • 3





                I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.

                – Tim B
                Jan 2 at 13:53











              • @TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.

                – Alex
                Jan 3 at 1:01













              • @se0808 Gotta disagree - the book literally has Hermione state which phrases were telling, and they aren't just the first line. The other phrases matter because they indicate that Umbridge (aka Ministry) don't want change, all while Dumbledore is trying to call the wizarding to action by repeatedly announcing that Voldemort is back. It's as simple as that - Dumbledore is trying to shake up the world, the Ministry is trying to stop him, and Umbridges speech plainly identifies her as a Ministry figurehead planted at Hogwarts, hence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts."

                – DavidS
                Jan 10 at 14:29








              • 3





                @DavidS I didn’t say the other phrased don’t matter. What I said was that without the opening line it wouldn’t prove that it’s the Ministry that’s interfering. I explicitly stated that the other phrases are examples of how the Ministry will be interfering.

                – Alex
                Jan 10 at 15:23
















              21














              Umbridge spoke for a long time, but only small snippets of it are recorded in the book. While it is theoretically possible that she said some stuff "off-screen" that gave away that the Ministry would be interfering, for the sake of answering this question let's assume that we have enough information in the parts that we saw.



              Here are the snippets of her speech:




              "The Ministry of Magic has always considered the
              education of young witches and wizards to be of vital
              importance. The rare gifts with which you were born
              may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by
              careful instruction. The ancient skills unique to the
              Wizarding community must be passed down through
              the generations lest we lose them forever. The
              treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our
              ancestors must be guarded, replenished, and polished
              by those who have been called to the noble profession
              of teaching."







              "Every headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts has
              brought something new to the weighty task of
              governing this historic school, and that is as it should
              be, for without progress there will be stagnation and
              decay. There again, progress for progress’s sake must
              be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions
              often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between
              old and new, between permanence and change,
              between tradition and innovation..."







              "... because some changes will be for the better, while
              others will come, in the fullness of time, to be
              recognized as errors of judgment. Meanwhile, some
              old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas
              others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned.
              Let us move forward, then, into a new era of
              openness, effectiveness, and accountability, intent on
              preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting
              what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we
              find practices that ought to be prohibited."




              I would argue that none of the concepts Umbridge discusses actually indicate Ministry interference. The first paragraph points out the unique mission of Hogwarts, the second paragraph points out that every headmaster changes things up a bit, and a certain balance is necessary, and the third paragraph says that we have to constantly look back and see if we are making things better or worse.



              I don't think any of that is particularly controversial. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if other headmasters made similar speeches upon starting at Hogwarts (though I'd expect some of them to at least have the sense to not give the speech to a room full of sleepy, inattentive students).



              I think that the entire issue here is with the very first sentence:




              The Ministry of Magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance.




              Everyone agrees that education is important, and should be done properly. So why mention the Ministry here? I would argue that it is this insertion that is the indicator of Ministry interference. By telling us that the Ministry values education, she is saying that whatever follows (e.g. some things need to be reevaluated) will be Ministry-oriented. Had she left out the first sentence there would have been no indication of Ministry interference (though there might have been indication of her own interference).



              In fact, we can make an observation based on the reactions of others besides Hermione. During the speech we find the following:




              Professor McGonagall’s dark eyebrows had
              contracted so that she looked positively hawklike, and
              Harry distinctly saw her exchange a significant glance
              with Professor Sprout as Umbridge gave another little
              "Hem, hem" and went on with her speech.




              Yet, interestingly, this does not occur after the second or third paragraph, which is where Umbridge actually lays out what the "interference" would consist of. Instead, it occurs after the first paragraph when all Umbridge said is that the Ministry values education. It would seem, then, that McGonagall and Sprout already realized something was up, just from the first paragraph. If so, it was probably from the mention of the Ministry, because as noted above that is entirely superfluous unless the Ministry will be interfering.



              Therefore, I would assume that Hermione also figured out right from the start that Umbridge would be initiating Ministry interference. The specific examples mentioned by Hermione (and the other answers here) are just that — examples of how the Ministry will be interfering once we already know that they will be interfering.






              share|improve this answer





















              • 7





                I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).

                – se0808
                Dec 30 '18 at 20:06








              • 3





                I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.

                – Tim B
                Jan 2 at 13:53











              • @TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.

                – Alex
                Jan 3 at 1:01













              • @se0808 Gotta disagree - the book literally has Hermione state which phrases were telling, and they aren't just the first line. The other phrases matter because they indicate that Umbridge (aka Ministry) don't want change, all while Dumbledore is trying to call the wizarding to action by repeatedly announcing that Voldemort is back. It's as simple as that - Dumbledore is trying to shake up the world, the Ministry is trying to stop him, and Umbridges speech plainly identifies her as a Ministry figurehead planted at Hogwarts, hence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts."

                – DavidS
                Jan 10 at 14:29








              • 3





                @DavidS I didn’t say the other phrased don’t matter. What I said was that without the opening line it wouldn’t prove that it’s the Ministry that’s interfering. I explicitly stated that the other phrases are examples of how the Ministry will be interfering.

                – Alex
                Jan 10 at 15:23














              21












              21








              21







              Umbridge spoke for a long time, but only small snippets of it are recorded in the book. While it is theoretically possible that she said some stuff "off-screen" that gave away that the Ministry would be interfering, for the sake of answering this question let's assume that we have enough information in the parts that we saw.



              Here are the snippets of her speech:




              "The Ministry of Magic has always considered the
              education of young witches and wizards to be of vital
              importance. The rare gifts with which you were born
              may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by
              careful instruction. The ancient skills unique to the
              Wizarding community must be passed down through
              the generations lest we lose them forever. The
              treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our
              ancestors must be guarded, replenished, and polished
              by those who have been called to the noble profession
              of teaching."







              "Every headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts has
              brought something new to the weighty task of
              governing this historic school, and that is as it should
              be, for without progress there will be stagnation and
              decay. There again, progress for progress’s sake must
              be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions
              often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between
              old and new, between permanence and change,
              between tradition and innovation..."







              "... because some changes will be for the better, while
              others will come, in the fullness of time, to be
              recognized as errors of judgment. Meanwhile, some
              old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas
              others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned.
              Let us move forward, then, into a new era of
              openness, effectiveness, and accountability, intent on
              preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting
              what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we
              find practices that ought to be prohibited."




              I would argue that none of the concepts Umbridge discusses actually indicate Ministry interference. The first paragraph points out the unique mission of Hogwarts, the second paragraph points out that every headmaster changes things up a bit, and a certain balance is necessary, and the third paragraph says that we have to constantly look back and see if we are making things better or worse.



              I don't think any of that is particularly controversial. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if other headmasters made similar speeches upon starting at Hogwarts (though I'd expect some of them to at least have the sense to not give the speech to a room full of sleepy, inattentive students).



              I think that the entire issue here is with the very first sentence:




              The Ministry of Magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance.




              Everyone agrees that education is important, and should be done properly. So why mention the Ministry here? I would argue that it is this insertion that is the indicator of Ministry interference. By telling us that the Ministry values education, she is saying that whatever follows (e.g. some things need to be reevaluated) will be Ministry-oriented. Had she left out the first sentence there would have been no indication of Ministry interference (though there might have been indication of her own interference).



              In fact, we can make an observation based on the reactions of others besides Hermione. During the speech we find the following:




              Professor McGonagall’s dark eyebrows had
              contracted so that she looked positively hawklike, and
              Harry distinctly saw her exchange a significant glance
              with Professor Sprout as Umbridge gave another little
              "Hem, hem" and went on with her speech.




              Yet, interestingly, this does not occur after the second or third paragraph, which is where Umbridge actually lays out what the "interference" would consist of. Instead, it occurs after the first paragraph when all Umbridge said is that the Ministry values education. It would seem, then, that McGonagall and Sprout already realized something was up, just from the first paragraph. If so, it was probably from the mention of the Ministry, because as noted above that is entirely superfluous unless the Ministry will be interfering.



              Therefore, I would assume that Hermione also figured out right from the start that Umbridge would be initiating Ministry interference. The specific examples mentioned by Hermione (and the other answers here) are just that — examples of how the Ministry will be interfering once we already know that they will be interfering.






              share|improve this answer















              Umbridge spoke for a long time, but only small snippets of it are recorded in the book. While it is theoretically possible that she said some stuff "off-screen" that gave away that the Ministry would be interfering, for the sake of answering this question let's assume that we have enough information in the parts that we saw.



              Here are the snippets of her speech:




              "The Ministry of Magic has always considered the
              education of young witches and wizards to be of vital
              importance. The rare gifts with which you were born
              may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by
              careful instruction. The ancient skills unique to the
              Wizarding community must be passed down through
              the generations lest we lose them forever. The
              treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our
              ancestors must be guarded, replenished, and polished
              by those who have been called to the noble profession
              of teaching."







              "Every headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts has
              brought something new to the weighty task of
              governing this historic school, and that is as it should
              be, for without progress there will be stagnation and
              decay. There again, progress for progress’s sake must
              be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions
              often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between
              old and new, between permanence and change,
              between tradition and innovation..."







              "... because some changes will be for the better, while
              others will come, in the fullness of time, to be
              recognized as errors of judgment. Meanwhile, some
              old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas
              others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned.
              Let us move forward, then, into a new era of
              openness, effectiveness, and accountability, intent on
              preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting
              what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we
              find practices that ought to be prohibited."




              I would argue that none of the concepts Umbridge discusses actually indicate Ministry interference. The first paragraph points out the unique mission of Hogwarts, the second paragraph points out that every headmaster changes things up a bit, and a certain balance is necessary, and the third paragraph says that we have to constantly look back and see if we are making things better or worse.



              I don't think any of that is particularly controversial. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if other headmasters made similar speeches upon starting at Hogwarts (though I'd expect some of them to at least have the sense to not give the speech to a room full of sleepy, inattentive students).



              I think that the entire issue here is with the very first sentence:




              The Ministry of Magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance.




              Everyone agrees that education is important, and should be done properly. So why mention the Ministry here? I would argue that it is this insertion that is the indicator of Ministry interference. By telling us that the Ministry values education, she is saying that whatever follows (e.g. some things need to be reevaluated) will be Ministry-oriented. Had she left out the first sentence there would have been no indication of Ministry interference (though there might have been indication of her own interference).



              In fact, we can make an observation based on the reactions of others besides Hermione. During the speech we find the following:




              Professor McGonagall’s dark eyebrows had
              contracted so that she looked positively hawklike, and
              Harry distinctly saw her exchange a significant glance
              with Professor Sprout as Umbridge gave another little
              "Hem, hem" and went on with her speech.




              Yet, interestingly, this does not occur after the second or third paragraph, which is where Umbridge actually lays out what the "interference" would consist of. Instead, it occurs after the first paragraph when all Umbridge said is that the Ministry values education. It would seem, then, that McGonagall and Sprout already realized something was up, just from the first paragraph. If so, it was probably from the mention of the Ministry, because as noted above that is entirely superfluous unless the Ministry will be interfering.



              Therefore, I would assume that Hermione also figured out right from the start that Umbridge would be initiating Ministry interference. The specific examples mentioned by Hermione (and the other answers here) are just that — examples of how the Ministry will be interfering once we already know that they will be interfering.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Dec 30 '18 at 18:37

























              answered Dec 30 '18 at 18:24









              AlexAlex

              20.6k56298




              20.6k56298








              • 7





                I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).

                – se0808
                Dec 30 '18 at 20:06








              • 3





                I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.

                – Tim B
                Jan 2 at 13:53











              • @TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.

                – Alex
                Jan 3 at 1:01













              • @se0808 Gotta disagree - the book literally has Hermione state which phrases were telling, and they aren't just the first line. The other phrases matter because they indicate that Umbridge (aka Ministry) don't want change, all while Dumbledore is trying to call the wizarding to action by repeatedly announcing that Voldemort is back. It's as simple as that - Dumbledore is trying to shake up the world, the Ministry is trying to stop him, and Umbridges speech plainly identifies her as a Ministry figurehead planted at Hogwarts, hence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts."

                – DavidS
                Jan 10 at 14:29








              • 3





                @DavidS I didn’t say the other phrased don’t matter. What I said was that without the opening line it wouldn’t prove that it’s the Ministry that’s interfering. I explicitly stated that the other phrases are examples of how the Ministry will be interfering.

                – Alex
                Jan 10 at 15:23














              • 7





                I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).

                – se0808
                Dec 30 '18 at 20:06








              • 3





                I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.

                – Tim B
                Jan 2 at 13:53











              • @TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.

                – Alex
                Jan 3 at 1:01













              • @se0808 Gotta disagree - the book literally has Hermione state which phrases were telling, and they aren't just the first line. The other phrases matter because they indicate that Umbridge (aka Ministry) don't want change, all while Dumbledore is trying to call the wizarding to action by repeatedly announcing that Voldemort is back. It's as simple as that - Dumbledore is trying to shake up the world, the Ministry is trying to stop him, and Umbridges speech plainly identifies her as a Ministry figurehead planted at Hogwarts, hence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts."

                – DavidS
                Jan 10 at 14:29








              • 3





                @DavidS I didn’t say the other phrased don’t matter. What I said was that without the opening line it wouldn’t prove that it’s the Ministry that’s interfering. I explicitly stated that the other phrases are examples of how the Ministry will be interfering.

                – Alex
                Jan 10 at 15:23








              7




              7





              I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).

              – se0808
              Dec 30 '18 at 20:06







              I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).

              – se0808
              Dec 30 '18 at 20:06






              3




              3





              I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.

              – Tim B
              Jan 2 at 13:53





              I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.

              – Tim B
              Jan 2 at 13:53













              @TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.

              – Alex
              Jan 3 at 1:01







              @TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.

              – Alex
              Jan 3 at 1:01















              @se0808 Gotta disagree - the book literally has Hermione state which phrases were telling, and they aren't just the first line. The other phrases matter because they indicate that Umbridge (aka Ministry) don't want change, all while Dumbledore is trying to call the wizarding to action by repeatedly announcing that Voldemort is back. It's as simple as that - Dumbledore is trying to shake up the world, the Ministry is trying to stop him, and Umbridges speech plainly identifies her as a Ministry figurehead planted at Hogwarts, hence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts."

              – DavidS
              Jan 10 at 14:29







              @se0808 Gotta disagree - the book literally has Hermione state which phrases were telling, and they aren't just the first line. The other phrases matter because they indicate that Umbridge (aka Ministry) don't want change, all while Dumbledore is trying to call the wizarding to action by repeatedly announcing that Voldemort is back. It's as simple as that - Dumbledore is trying to shake up the world, the Ministry is trying to stop him, and Umbridges speech plainly identifies her as a Ministry figurehead planted at Hogwarts, hence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts."

              – DavidS
              Jan 10 at 14:29






              3




              3





              @DavidS I didn’t say the other phrased don’t matter. What I said was that without the opening line it wouldn’t prove that it’s the Ministry that’s interfering. I explicitly stated that the other phrases are examples of how the Ministry will be interfering.

              – Alex
              Jan 10 at 15:23





              @DavidS I didn’t say the other phrased don’t matter. What I said was that without the opening line it wouldn’t prove that it’s the Ministry that’s interfering. I explicitly stated that the other phrases are examples of how the Ministry will be interfering.

              – Alex
              Jan 10 at 15:23













              79















              "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"




              Who decides whether an innovation is a good thing or just "progress for progress's sake"?




              "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?




              Which practices are those, and who are "we"?



              Both of these implicitly assume a judgement on what should be discouraged or prohibited. Since Umbridge was appointed by the Ministry it follows that it is the Ministry judgement that will be applied. Presumably in the past the Headmaster of Hogwarts was free to run the school as he saw fit, answerable only to the Board of Governors. Umbridge's speech was a coded announcement that in the future the Ministry would be setting policy directly, which is what Hermione described as "interfering".






              share|improve this answer





















              • 14





                The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.

                – Nobody
                Dec 30 '18 at 18:55






              • 7





                More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?

                – WhatRoughBeast
                Dec 30 '18 at 23:43






              • 6





                Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.

                – Frank Hopkins
                Dec 31 '18 at 13:28








              • 2





                Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!

                – Sean
                Dec 31 '18 at 19:05








              • 5





                +1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)

                – ruakh
                Dec 31 '18 at 22:55
















              79















              "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"




              Who decides whether an innovation is a good thing or just "progress for progress's sake"?




              "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?




              Which practices are those, and who are "we"?



              Both of these implicitly assume a judgement on what should be discouraged or prohibited. Since Umbridge was appointed by the Ministry it follows that it is the Ministry judgement that will be applied. Presumably in the past the Headmaster of Hogwarts was free to run the school as he saw fit, answerable only to the Board of Governors. Umbridge's speech was a coded announcement that in the future the Ministry would be setting policy directly, which is what Hermione described as "interfering".






              share|improve this answer





















              • 14





                The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.

                – Nobody
                Dec 30 '18 at 18:55






              • 7





                More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?

                – WhatRoughBeast
                Dec 30 '18 at 23:43






              • 6





                Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.

                – Frank Hopkins
                Dec 31 '18 at 13:28








              • 2





                Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!

                – Sean
                Dec 31 '18 at 19:05








              • 5





                +1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)

                – ruakh
                Dec 31 '18 at 22:55














              79












              79








              79








              "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"




              Who decides whether an innovation is a good thing or just "progress for progress's sake"?




              "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?




              Which practices are those, and who are "we"?



              Both of these implicitly assume a judgement on what should be discouraged or prohibited. Since Umbridge was appointed by the Ministry it follows that it is the Ministry judgement that will be applied. Presumably in the past the Headmaster of Hogwarts was free to run the school as he saw fit, answerable only to the Board of Governors. Umbridge's speech was a coded announcement that in the future the Ministry would be setting policy directly, which is what Hermione described as "interfering".






              share|improve this answer
















              "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"




              Who decides whether an innovation is a good thing or just "progress for progress's sake"?




              "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?




              Which practices are those, and who are "we"?



              Both of these implicitly assume a judgement on what should be discouraged or prohibited. Since Umbridge was appointed by the Ministry it follows that it is the Ministry judgement that will be applied. Presumably in the past the Headmaster of Hogwarts was free to run the school as he saw fit, answerable only to the Board of Governors. Umbridge's speech was a coded announcement that in the future the Ministry would be setting policy directly, which is what Hermione described as "interfering".







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Dec 31 '18 at 10:29

























              answered Dec 30 '18 at 15:26









              Paul JohnsonPaul Johnson

              4,28211123




              4,28211123








              • 14





                The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.

                – Nobody
                Dec 30 '18 at 18:55






              • 7





                More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?

                – WhatRoughBeast
                Dec 30 '18 at 23:43






              • 6





                Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.

                – Frank Hopkins
                Dec 31 '18 at 13:28








              • 2





                Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!

                – Sean
                Dec 31 '18 at 19:05








              • 5





                +1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)

                – ruakh
                Dec 31 '18 at 22:55














              • 14





                The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.

                – Nobody
                Dec 30 '18 at 18:55






              • 7





                More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?

                – WhatRoughBeast
                Dec 30 '18 at 23:43






              • 6





                Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.

                – Frank Hopkins
                Dec 31 '18 at 13:28








              • 2





                Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!

                – Sean
                Dec 31 '18 at 19:05








              • 5





                +1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)

                – ruakh
                Dec 31 '18 at 22:55








              14




              14





              The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.

              – Nobody
              Dec 30 '18 at 18:55





              The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.

              – Nobody
              Dec 30 '18 at 18:55




              7




              7





              More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?

              – WhatRoughBeast
              Dec 30 '18 at 23:43





              More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?

              – WhatRoughBeast
              Dec 30 '18 at 23:43




              6




              6





              Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.

              – Frank Hopkins
              Dec 31 '18 at 13:28







              Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.

              – Frank Hopkins
              Dec 31 '18 at 13:28






              2




              2





              Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!

              – Sean
              Dec 31 '18 at 19:05







              Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!

              – Sean
              Dec 31 '18 at 19:05






              5




              5





              +1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)

              – ruakh
              Dec 31 '18 at 22:55





              +1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)

              – ruakh
              Dec 31 '18 at 22:55











              58














              To understand this you have to appreciate that the Harry Potter series of books were not written in a vacuum, and that JK Rowling is a politically active person. The idea of the British Government interfering in education has been an issue here for a couple of decades and Rowling's works mirror the real world situation in the UK in her Wizarding world.



              The words of Dolores Umbridge reflect the typical doublespeak that politicians use in the real word. "Progress for progress's sake should be discouraged" means that you should not do something progressive just because you can, in our world it would be something like the right of gay marriage.



              "Pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited" means stopping the schools from teaching subjects that the Ministry did not approve of, such as Muggle studies. In the real world, in Britain, subjects such as music teaching and media studies had reduced funding.



              The Ministry is not allowing the staff at Hogwarts to make its own policies about what it should teach and how it should teach them, that's how the Ministry of Magic is interfering.






              share|improve this answer





















              • 8





                Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1

                – Mindwin
                Dec 31 '18 at 10:55






              • 7





                While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.

                – William Grobman
                Dec 31 '18 at 13:39








              • 5





                I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.

                – Adamant
                Dec 31 '18 at 18:17








              • 3





                As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.

                – Adamant
                Dec 31 '18 at 18:19








              • 1





                Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.

                – Adamant
                Jan 4 at 16:35


















              58














              To understand this you have to appreciate that the Harry Potter series of books were not written in a vacuum, and that JK Rowling is a politically active person. The idea of the British Government interfering in education has been an issue here for a couple of decades and Rowling's works mirror the real world situation in the UK in her Wizarding world.



              The words of Dolores Umbridge reflect the typical doublespeak that politicians use in the real word. "Progress for progress's sake should be discouraged" means that you should not do something progressive just because you can, in our world it would be something like the right of gay marriage.



              "Pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited" means stopping the schools from teaching subjects that the Ministry did not approve of, such as Muggle studies. In the real world, in Britain, subjects such as music teaching and media studies had reduced funding.



              The Ministry is not allowing the staff at Hogwarts to make its own policies about what it should teach and how it should teach them, that's how the Ministry of Magic is interfering.






              share|improve this answer





















              • 8





                Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1

                – Mindwin
                Dec 31 '18 at 10:55






              • 7





                While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.

                – William Grobman
                Dec 31 '18 at 13:39








              • 5





                I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.

                – Adamant
                Dec 31 '18 at 18:17








              • 3





                As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.

                – Adamant
                Dec 31 '18 at 18:19








              • 1





                Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.

                – Adamant
                Jan 4 at 16:35
















              58












              58








              58







              To understand this you have to appreciate that the Harry Potter series of books were not written in a vacuum, and that JK Rowling is a politically active person. The idea of the British Government interfering in education has been an issue here for a couple of decades and Rowling's works mirror the real world situation in the UK in her Wizarding world.



              The words of Dolores Umbridge reflect the typical doublespeak that politicians use in the real word. "Progress for progress's sake should be discouraged" means that you should not do something progressive just because you can, in our world it would be something like the right of gay marriage.



              "Pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited" means stopping the schools from teaching subjects that the Ministry did not approve of, such as Muggle studies. In the real world, in Britain, subjects such as music teaching and media studies had reduced funding.



              The Ministry is not allowing the staff at Hogwarts to make its own policies about what it should teach and how it should teach them, that's how the Ministry of Magic is interfering.






              share|improve this answer















              To understand this you have to appreciate that the Harry Potter series of books were not written in a vacuum, and that JK Rowling is a politically active person. The idea of the British Government interfering in education has been an issue here for a couple of decades and Rowling's works mirror the real world situation in the UK in her Wizarding world.



              The words of Dolores Umbridge reflect the typical doublespeak that politicians use in the real word. "Progress for progress's sake should be discouraged" means that you should not do something progressive just because you can, in our world it would be something like the right of gay marriage.



              "Pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited" means stopping the schools from teaching subjects that the Ministry did not approve of, such as Muggle studies. In the real world, in Britain, subjects such as music teaching and media studies had reduced funding.



              The Ministry is not allowing the staff at Hogwarts to make its own policies about what it should teach and how it should teach them, that's how the Ministry of Magic is interfering.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Jan 11 at 13:24

























              answered Dec 30 '18 at 9:05









              SarriesfanSarriesfan

              2,1811617




              2,1811617








              • 8





                Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1

                – Mindwin
                Dec 31 '18 at 10:55






              • 7





                While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.

                – William Grobman
                Dec 31 '18 at 13:39








              • 5





                I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.

                – Adamant
                Dec 31 '18 at 18:17








              • 3





                As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.

                – Adamant
                Dec 31 '18 at 18:19








              • 1





                Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.

                – Adamant
                Jan 4 at 16:35
















              • 8





                Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1

                – Mindwin
                Dec 31 '18 at 10:55






              • 7





                While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.

                – William Grobman
                Dec 31 '18 at 13:39








              • 5





                I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.

                – Adamant
                Dec 31 '18 at 18:17








              • 3





                As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.

                – Adamant
                Dec 31 '18 at 18:19








              • 1





                Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.

                – Adamant
                Jan 4 at 16:35










              8




              8





              Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1

              – Mindwin
              Dec 31 '18 at 10:55





              Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1

              – Mindwin
              Dec 31 '18 at 10:55




              7




              7





              While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.

              – William Grobman
              Dec 31 '18 at 13:39







              While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.

              – William Grobman
              Dec 31 '18 at 13:39






              5




              5





              I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.

              – Adamant
              Dec 31 '18 at 18:17







              I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.

              – Adamant
              Dec 31 '18 at 18:17






              3




              3





              As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.

              – Adamant
              Dec 31 '18 at 18:19







              As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.

              – Adamant
              Dec 31 '18 at 18:19






              1




              1





              Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.

              – Adamant
              Jan 4 at 16:35







              Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.

              – Adamant
              Jan 4 at 16:35













              7














              Dumbledore was the headmaster of Hogwarts, whereas Umbridge was just an underling working under the direction of the headmaster. For Umbridge to publicly pass absolute judgements against the policies or philosophies of Hogwarts was not a constructive action but therefore a hostile one. Dolores was able to get away with inappropriate and socially out-of-place comments like that because she had the protection of the Ministry to fall back on, hence the reason for Hermione's comment. It doesn't take a genius to see that, all you have to do is pay attention to what is going on around you, as Hermione often did.






              share|improve this answer




























                7














                Dumbledore was the headmaster of Hogwarts, whereas Umbridge was just an underling working under the direction of the headmaster. For Umbridge to publicly pass absolute judgements against the policies or philosophies of Hogwarts was not a constructive action but therefore a hostile one. Dolores was able to get away with inappropriate and socially out-of-place comments like that because she had the protection of the Ministry to fall back on, hence the reason for Hermione's comment. It doesn't take a genius to see that, all you have to do is pay attention to what is going on around you, as Hermione often did.






                share|improve this answer


























                  7












                  7








                  7







                  Dumbledore was the headmaster of Hogwarts, whereas Umbridge was just an underling working under the direction of the headmaster. For Umbridge to publicly pass absolute judgements against the policies or philosophies of Hogwarts was not a constructive action but therefore a hostile one. Dolores was able to get away with inappropriate and socially out-of-place comments like that because she had the protection of the Ministry to fall back on, hence the reason for Hermione's comment. It doesn't take a genius to see that, all you have to do is pay attention to what is going on around you, as Hermione often did.






                  share|improve this answer













                  Dumbledore was the headmaster of Hogwarts, whereas Umbridge was just an underling working under the direction of the headmaster. For Umbridge to publicly pass absolute judgements against the policies or philosophies of Hogwarts was not a constructive action but therefore a hostile one. Dolores was able to get away with inappropriate and socially out-of-place comments like that because she had the protection of the Ministry to fall back on, hence the reason for Hermione's comment. It doesn't take a genius to see that, all you have to do is pay attention to what is going on around you, as Hermione often did.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Dec 30 '18 at 23:41









                  ar18ar18

                  711




                  711























                      2














                      This speech is part of a larger pattern of events between the Ministry and Dumbledore. Hermione has picked up on this context to correctly deduce it's meaning.



                      The context is vital to understanding what is going on here. Umbridges speech is made far more meaningful when remembering the circumstances in which it is being given.



                      Consider that for the previous few months Dumbledore has been trying to convince the world that Voldemort has returned, and that the Ministry has been actively opposing him. The world is comfortable, and any hint that the status quo is about to be breaking is regarded as distressing and unwelcome. After all, we see how the Minister of Magic responds when he's told Voldemort is back...




                      "It seems to me that you are all determined
                      to start a panic that will destabilize everything we have worked for
                      these last thirteen years!"



                      Harry couldn't believe what he was hearing. He had always thought of
                      Fudge as a kindly figure, a little blustering, a little pompous, but
                      essentially good­natured. But now a short, angry wizard stood before
                      him, refusing, point­blank, to accept the prospect of disruption in
                      his comfortable and ordered world
                      , to believe that Voldemort could
                      have risen.




                      The conversation continues onwards with Dumbledore and the Minister actively opposing each other, leading to Fudge threatening the autonomy of Dumbledore and the school in general.




                      "If your determination to shut your eyes will carry you as far as
                      this, Cornelius," said Dumbledore, "we have reached a parting of the ways. You must act
                      as you see fit. And I...I shall act as I see fit.
                      "



                      Dumbledore's voice carried no hint of a threat; it sounded like a mere
                      statement, but Fudge bristled as though Dumbledore were advancing upon
                      him with a wand.



                      "Now, see here, Dumbledore," he said, waving a threatening finger.
                      "I've given you free rein, always. I've had a lot of respect for you.
                      I might not have agreed with some of your decisions, but I've kept
                      quiet. There aren't many who'd have let you hire werewolves, or keep
                      Hagrid, or decide what to teach your students without reference to the
                      Ministry. But if you're going to work against me ..."




                      The exchange ends with an indication that Fudge is going to clamp down on Dumbledore's running of Hogwarts.




                      "I will be in touch with you tomorrow, Dumbledore, to discuss the
                      running of this school
                      . I must return to the Ministry."




                      Dumbledore, for his part, ignores Fudges threats and starts to spread the truth, starting with Hogwarts.




                      "Cedric Diggory was murdered by Lord Voldemort."



                      A panicked whisper swept the Great Hall. People were staring at
                      Dumbledore in disbelief, in horror. He looked perfectly calm as he
                      watched them mutter themselves into silence.



                      "The Ministry of Magic," Dumbledore continued, "does not wish me to
                      tell you this."




                      The campaign of information and attempts to rouse the public continues all summer, with the Ministry growing actively more frustrated and devious in their attempts to discredit Dumbledore and Harry and clamp down on the behaviour. Hermione - living at the headquarters of the Order and being friends with Harry (who tells them everything), is well aware of all this, explaining to Harry:




                      But you see what they’re doing? They want to turn you into someone
                      nobody will believe. Fudge is behind it, I’ll bet anything.
                      "




                      When Umbridge - a known Ministry toady - is appointed to Hogwarts, it's not a huge leap to assume she's there to continue these efforts. Note that Hermione already suspects this from the moment they spot Umbridge at the the feast, before the speech.




                      "She works for Fudge!" Hermione repeated, frowning. "What on earth’s
                      she doing here, then?"



                      "Dunno..."



                      Hermione scanned the staff table, her eyes narrowed. "No," she muttered, "no, surely not..."




                      And the actual content of the speech perfectly aligns with these suspicions - the content (as @TimB excellently put it in the comments) "reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good".



                      In other words - the Ministry wants to keep things as they are, and so it emphasises the importance of "traditional values" and discourages change...




                      Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be
                      discouraged"?




                      ...while casually threatening those who would seek to upset the existing system...




                      How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be
                      prohibited"?






                      In Summary



                      All of this - the rabble-rousing of Dumbledore, the attempts by the Ministry to control him and continue with "business as usual", the installation of a Ministry-appointed teacher at Hogwarts, and Umbridge interrupting Dumbledore to give her own pro-traditionalist speech at the feast clearly indicates one thing...




                      Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's
                      interfering at Hogwarts.







                      share|improve this answer




























                        2














                        This speech is part of a larger pattern of events between the Ministry and Dumbledore. Hermione has picked up on this context to correctly deduce it's meaning.



                        The context is vital to understanding what is going on here. Umbridges speech is made far more meaningful when remembering the circumstances in which it is being given.



                        Consider that for the previous few months Dumbledore has been trying to convince the world that Voldemort has returned, and that the Ministry has been actively opposing him. The world is comfortable, and any hint that the status quo is about to be breaking is regarded as distressing and unwelcome. After all, we see how the Minister of Magic responds when he's told Voldemort is back...




                        "It seems to me that you are all determined
                        to start a panic that will destabilize everything we have worked for
                        these last thirteen years!"



                        Harry couldn't believe what he was hearing. He had always thought of
                        Fudge as a kindly figure, a little blustering, a little pompous, but
                        essentially good­natured. But now a short, angry wizard stood before
                        him, refusing, point­blank, to accept the prospect of disruption in
                        his comfortable and ordered world
                        , to believe that Voldemort could
                        have risen.




                        The conversation continues onwards with Dumbledore and the Minister actively opposing each other, leading to Fudge threatening the autonomy of Dumbledore and the school in general.




                        "If your determination to shut your eyes will carry you as far as
                        this, Cornelius," said Dumbledore, "we have reached a parting of the ways. You must act
                        as you see fit. And I...I shall act as I see fit.
                        "



                        Dumbledore's voice carried no hint of a threat; it sounded like a mere
                        statement, but Fudge bristled as though Dumbledore were advancing upon
                        him with a wand.



                        "Now, see here, Dumbledore," he said, waving a threatening finger.
                        "I've given you free rein, always. I've had a lot of respect for you.
                        I might not have agreed with some of your decisions, but I've kept
                        quiet. There aren't many who'd have let you hire werewolves, or keep
                        Hagrid, or decide what to teach your students without reference to the
                        Ministry. But if you're going to work against me ..."




                        The exchange ends with an indication that Fudge is going to clamp down on Dumbledore's running of Hogwarts.




                        "I will be in touch with you tomorrow, Dumbledore, to discuss the
                        running of this school
                        . I must return to the Ministry."




                        Dumbledore, for his part, ignores Fudges threats and starts to spread the truth, starting with Hogwarts.




                        "Cedric Diggory was murdered by Lord Voldemort."



                        A panicked whisper swept the Great Hall. People were staring at
                        Dumbledore in disbelief, in horror. He looked perfectly calm as he
                        watched them mutter themselves into silence.



                        "The Ministry of Magic," Dumbledore continued, "does not wish me to
                        tell you this."




                        The campaign of information and attempts to rouse the public continues all summer, with the Ministry growing actively more frustrated and devious in their attempts to discredit Dumbledore and Harry and clamp down on the behaviour. Hermione - living at the headquarters of the Order and being friends with Harry (who tells them everything), is well aware of all this, explaining to Harry:




                        But you see what they’re doing? They want to turn you into someone
                        nobody will believe. Fudge is behind it, I’ll bet anything.
                        "




                        When Umbridge - a known Ministry toady - is appointed to Hogwarts, it's not a huge leap to assume she's there to continue these efforts. Note that Hermione already suspects this from the moment they spot Umbridge at the the feast, before the speech.




                        "She works for Fudge!" Hermione repeated, frowning. "What on earth’s
                        she doing here, then?"



                        "Dunno..."



                        Hermione scanned the staff table, her eyes narrowed. "No," she muttered, "no, surely not..."




                        And the actual content of the speech perfectly aligns with these suspicions - the content (as @TimB excellently put it in the comments) "reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good".



                        In other words - the Ministry wants to keep things as they are, and so it emphasises the importance of "traditional values" and discourages change...




                        Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be
                        discouraged"?




                        ...while casually threatening those who would seek to upset the existing system...




                        How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be
                        prohibited"?






                        In Summary



                        All of this - the rabble-rousing of Dumbledore, the attempts by the Ministry to control him and continue with "business as usual", the installation of a Ministry-appointed teacher at Hogwarts, and Umbridge interrupting Dumbledore to give her own pro-traditionalist speech at the feast clearly indicates one thing...




                        Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's
                        interfering at Hogwarts.







                        share|improve this answer


























                          2












                          2








                          2







                          This speech is part of a larger pattern of events between the Ministry and Dumbledore. Hermione has picked up on this context to correctly deduce it's meaning.



                          The context is vital to understanding what is going on here. Umbridges speech is made far more meaningful when remembering the circumstances in which it is being given.



                          Consider that for the previous few months Dumbledore has been trying to convince the world that Voldemort has returned, and that the Ministry has been actively opposing him. The world is comfortable, and any hint that the status quo is about to be breaking is regarded as distressing and unwelcome. After all, we see how the Minister of Magic responds when he's told Voldemort is back...




                          "It seems to me that you are all determined
                          to start a panic that will destabilize everything we have worked for
                          these last thirteen years!"



                          Harry couldn't believe what he was hearing. He had always thought of
                          Fudge as a kindly figure, a little blustering, a little pompous, but
                          essentially good­natured. But now a short, angry wizard stood before
                          him, refusing, point­blank, to accept the prospect of disruption in
                          his comfortable and ordered world
                          , to believe that Voldemort could
                          have risen.




                          The conversation continues onwards with Dumbledore and the Minister actively opposing each other, leading to Fudge threatening the autonomy of Dumbledore and the school in general.




                          "If your determination to shut your eyes will carry you as far as
                          this, Cornelius," said Dumbledore, "we have reached a parting of the ways. You must act
                          as you see fit. And I...I shall act as I see fit.
                          "



                          Dumbledore's voice carried no hint of a threat; it sounded like a mere
                          statement, but Fudge bristled as though Dumbledore were advancing upon
                          him with a wand.



                          "Now, see here, Dumbledore," he said, waving a threatening finger.
                          "I've given you free rein, always. I've had a lot of respect for you.
                          I might not have agreed with some of your decisions, but I've kept
                          quiet. There aren't many who'd have let you hire werewolves, or keep
                          Hagrid, or decide what to teach your students without reference to the
                          Ministry. But if you're going to work against me ..."




                          The exchange ends with an indication that Fudge is going to clamp down on Dumbledore's running of Hogwarts.




                          "I will be in touch with you tomorrow, Dumbledore, to discuss the
                          running of this school
                          . I must return to the Ministry."




                          Dumbledore, for his part, ignores Fudges threats and starts to spread the truth, starting with Hogwarts.




                          "Cedric Diggory was murdered by Lord Voldemort."



                          A panicked whisper swept the Great Hall. People were staring at
                          Dumbledore in disbelief, in horror. He looked perfectly calm as he
                          watched them mutter themselves into silence.



                          "The Ministry of Magic," Dumbledore continued, "does not wish me to
                          tell you this."




                          The campaign of information and attempts to rouse the public continues all summer, with the Ministry growing actively more frustrated and devious in their attempts to discredit Dumbledore and Harry and clamp down on the behaviour. Hermione - living at the headquarters of the Order and being friends with Harry (who tells them everything), is well aware of all this, explaining to Harry:




                          But you see what they’re doing? They want to turn you into someone
                          nobody will believe. Fudge is behind it, I’ll bet anything.
                          "




                          When Umbridge - a known Ministry toady - is appointed to Hogwarts, it's not a huge leap to assume she's there to continue these efforts. Note that Hermione already suspects this from the moment they spot Umbridge at the the feast, before the speech.




                          "She works for Fudge!" Hermione repeated, frowning. "What on earth’s
                          she doing here, then?"



                          "Dunno..."



                          Hermione scanned the staff table, her eyes narrowed. "No," she muttered, "no, surely not..."




                          And the actual content of the speech perfectly aligns with these suspicions - the content (as @TimB excellently put it in the comments) "reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good".



                          In other words - the Ministry wants to keep things as they are, and so it emphasises the importance of "traditional values" and discourages change...




                          Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be
                          discouraged"?




                          ...while casually threatening those who would seek to upset the existing system...




                          How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be
                          prohibited"?






                          In Summary



                          All of this - the rabble-rousing of Dumbledore, the attempts by the Ministry to control him and continue with "business as usual", the installation of a Ministry-appointed teacher at Hogwarts, and Umbridge interrupting Dumbledore to give her own pro-traditionalist speech at the feast clearly indicates one thing...




                          Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's
                          interfering at Hogwarts.







                          share|improve this answer













                          This speech is part of a larger pattern of events between the Ministry and Dumbledore. Hermione has picked up on this context to correctly deduce it's meaning.



                          The context is vital to understanding what is going on here. Umbridges speech is made far more meaningful when remembering the circumstances in which it is being given.



                          Consider that for the previous few months Dumbledore has been trying to convince the world that Voldemort has returned, and that the Ministry has been actively opposing him. The world is comfortable, and any hint that the status quo is about to be breaking is regarded as distressing and unwelcome. After all, we see how the Minister of Magic responds when he's told Voldemort is back...




                          "It seems to me that you are all determined
                          to start a panic that will destabilize everything we have worked for
                          these last thirteen years!"



                          Harry couldn't believe what he was hearing. He had always thought of
                          Fudge as a kindly figure, a little blustering, a little pompous, but
                          essentially good­natured. But now a short, angry wizard stood before
                          him, refusing, point­blank, to accept the prospect of disruption in
                          his comfortable and ordered world
                          , to believe that Voldemort could
                          have risen.




                          The conversation continues onwards with Dumbledore and the Minister actively opposing each other, leading to Fudge threatening the autonomy of Dumbledore and the school in general.




                          "If your determination to shut your eyes will carry you as far as
                          this, Cornelius," said Dumbledore, "we have reached a parting of the ways. You must act
                          as you see fit. And I...I shall act as I see fit.
                          "



                          Dumbledore's voice carried no hint of a threat; it sounded like a mere
                          statement, but Fudge bristled as though Dumbledore were advancing upon
                          him with a wand.



                          "Now, see here, Dumbledore," he said, waving a threatening finger.
                          "I've given you free rein, always. I've had a lot of respect for you.
                          I might not have agreed with some of your decisions, but I've kept
                          quiet. There aren't many who'd have let you hire werewolves, or keep
                          Hagrid, or decide what to teach your students without reference to the
                          Ministry. But if you're going to work against me ..."




                          The exchange ends with an indication that Fudge is going to clamp down on Dumbledore's running of Hogwarts.




                          "I will be in touch with you tomorrow, Dumbledore, to discuss the
                          running of this school
                          . I must return to the Ministry."




                          Dumbledore, for his part, ignores Fudges threats and starts to spread the truth, starting with Hogwarts.




                          "Cedric Diggory was murdered by Lord Voldemort."



                          A panicked whisper swept the Great Hall. People were staring at
                          Dumbledore in disbelief, in horror. He looked perfectly calm as he
                          watched them mutter themselves into silence.



                          "The Ministry of Magic," Dumbledore continued, "does not wish me to
                          tell you this."




                          The campaign of information and attempts to rouse the public continues all summer, with the Ministry growing actively more frustrated and devious in their attempts to discredit Dumbledore and Harry and clamp down on the behaviour. Hermione - living at the headquarters of the Order and being friends with Harry (who tells them everything), is well aware of all this, explaining to Harry:




                          But you see what they’re doing? They want to turn you into someone
                          nobody will believe. Fudge is behind it, I’ll bet anything.
                          "




                          When Umbridge - a known Ministry toady - is appointed to Hogwarts, it's not a huge leap to assume she's there to continue these efforts. Note that Hermione already suspects this from the moment they spot Umbridge at the the feast, before the speech.




                          "She works for Fudge!" Hermione repeated, frowning. "What on earth’s
                          she doing here, then?"



                          "Dunno..."



                          Hermione scanned the staff table, her eyes narrowed. "No," she muttered, "no, surely not..."




                          And the actual content of the speech perfectly aligns with these suspicions - the content (as @TimB excellently put it in the comments) "reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good".



                          In other words - the Ministry wants to keep things as they are, and so it emphasises the importance of "traditional values" and discourages change...




                          Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be
                          discouraged"?




                          ...while casually threatening those who would seek to upset the existing system...




                          How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be
                          prohibited"?






                          In Summary



                          All of this - the rabble-rousing of Dumbledore, the attempts by the Ministry to control him and continue with "business as usual", the installation of a Ministry-appointed teacher at Hogwarts, and Umbridge interrupting Dumbledore to give her own pro-traditionalist speech at the feast clearly indicates one thing...




                          Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's
                          interfering at Hogwarts.








                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered Jan 10 at 16:47









                          DavidSDavidS

                          14.6k25757




                          14.6k25757






























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