Normal groups and homomorphism are the same, and this gives an approach to isomorphism theorem?












2












$begingroup$


I was reading a post here that give some interesting approach about isomorphism theorem (see quote). But there are some things I don't understand. What exactly does this mean?




The Second Isomorphism Theorem says that the homomorphism F is the
same on the restriction to H (by restricting the kernal) as it is on
the smallest subgroup that contains both K and H. F cannot tell the
difference between them.




And also the explanation for this




The Third Isomorphism Theorem tells us that making this stop into G'
does not affect anything




is not so clear to me, what exactly does it mean by does not affect anything?



This was the original post :




The isomorphism theorems overall tell us that Homomorphisms and Normal
Subgroups are essentially the same thing. Or, alternatively,
Homomorphisms are classified by their Kernals.



The First Isomorphism Theorem sets up the correspondence: For every
Normal Subgroup K, there is a "unique" surjective Homomorphism with
kernal K. (I use quotes because we can compose with any isomorphism of
G/K to get another, but we can see these as the same) Any other
homomorphism with kernal K will contain the image of this homomorphism
as an ordinary subgroup.



That is good and all, but we can do various things within G that may
change what a homomorphism looks like. We want to classify some of
these things.



If we have a homomorphism F from G with kernal K and a subgroup H of
G, how does F behave when we restrict to H? First, we know that the
kernal is going to be K∩H, simply by definition. But if we look at the
subgroup KH, then we are still essentially restricting to K (because
for kh in KH, F(kh)=F(h), so it only depends on K) but this new group
contains H now. This can be see as the smallest subgroup of G that
contains both K and H. The Second Isomorphism Theorem says that the
homomorphism F is the same on the restriction to H (by restricting the
kernal) as it is on the smallest subgroup that contains both K and H.
F cannot tell the difference between them. You should view the Second
Isomorphism Theorem as the Isomorphism Theorem of Function
Restriction.



What happens if we compose two functions? If F is a surjective
function from G to H, but we can factor this into a composition of two
functions A from G to G' and B from G' to H (so F=B*A), then what
happens to the kernals? The Third Isomorphism Theorem tells us that
making this stop into G' does not affect anything. If N is the kernal
of F, then the image of F is isomorphis to G/N. But if A has kernal K,
then we need G'=G/K and the image of N is going to be N/K. Then going
from G' to H is going to have kernal N/K and so H=G'/(N/K). You should
see the Third Isomorphism Theorem as the Isomorphism Theorem of
Function Composition.



It's a shame that the Isomorphism Theorems are all done in terms of
quotient groups, which are dry and usually very unmotivated. The focus
of an intro to Group Theory course should be on Homomorphisms and
Group Actions rather than on group structure. It really helps motivate
things, put them into context, apply more fluidly into other areas of
math and you still get all the structure theorems you could ask for.



The First Isomorphism Theorem could be stated as such:



If K is a normal subgroup, then there is a homomorphism with kernal K
and any two such homomorphisms have isomorphic images. Call the image
G/K.



So we define G/K as the image of the homomorphism guaranteed by the
First Isomorphism Theorem and then the proof of it would just be the
typical construction of it. This really shows that the structure of
G/K is determined as the image of a homomorphism instead of confusing
things with cosets. Save cosets for Group Actions.











share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$

















    2












    $begingroup$


    I was reading a post here that give some interesting approach about isomorphism theorem (see quote). But there are some things I don't understand. What exactly does this mean?




    The Second Isomorphism Theorem says that the homomorphism F is the
    same on the restriction to H (by restricting the kernal) as it is on
    the smallest subgroup that contains both K and H. F cannot tell the
    difference between them.




    And also the explanation for this




    The Third Isomorphism Theorem tells us that making this stop into G'
    does not affect anything




    is not so clear to me, what exactly does it mean by does not affect anything?



    This was the original post :




    The isomorphism theorems overall tell us that Homomorphisms and Normal
    Subgroups are essentially the same thing. Or, alternatively,
    Homomorphisms are classified by their Kernals.



    The First Isomorphism Theorem sets up the correspondence: For every
    Normal Subgroup K, there is a "unique" surjective Homomorphism with
    kernal K. (I use quotes because we can compose with any isomorphism of
    G/K to get another, but we can see these as the same) Any other
    homomorphism with kernal K will contain the image of this homomorphism
    as an ordinary subgroup.



    That is good and all, but we can do various things within G that may
    change what a homomorphism looks like. We want to classify some of
    these things.



    If we have a homomorphism F from G with kernal K and a subgroup H of
    G, how does F behave when we restrict to H? First, we know that the
    kernal is going to be K∩H, simply by definition. But if we look at the
    subgroup KH, then we are still essentially restricting to K (because
    for kh in KH, F(kh)=F(h), so it only depends on K) but this new group
    contains H now. This can be see as the smallest subgroup of G that
    contains both K and H. The Second Isomorphism Theorem says that the
    homomorphism F is the same on the restriction to H (by restricting the
    kernal) as it is on the smallest subgroup that contains both K and H.
    F cannot tell the difference between them. You should view the Second
    Isomorphism Theorem as the Isomorphism Theorem of Function
    Restriction.



    What happens if we compose two functions? If F is a surjective
    function from G to H, but we can factor this into a composition of two
    functions A from G to G' and B from G' to H (so F=B*A), then what
    happens to the kernals? The Third Isomorphism Theorem tells us that
    making this stop into G' does not affect anything. If N is the kernal
    of F, then the image of F is isomorphis to G/N. But if A has kernal K,
    then we need G'=G/K and the image of N is going to be N/K. Then going
    from G' to H is going to have kernal N/K and so H=G'/(N/K). You should
    see the Third Isomorphism Theorem as the Isomorphism Theorem of
    Function Composition.



    It's a shame that the Isomorphism Theorems are all done in terms of
    quotient groups, which are dry and usually very unmotivated. The focus
    of an intro to Group Theory course should be on Homomorphisms and
    Group Actions rather than on group structure. It really helps motivate
    things, put them into context, apply more fluidly into other areas of
    math and you still get all the structure theorems you could ask for.



    The First Isomorphism Theorem could be stated as such:



    If K is a normal subgroup, then there is a homomorphism with kernal K
    and any two such homomorphisms have isomorphic images. Call the image
    G/K.



    So we define G/K as the image of the homomorphism guaranteed by the
    First Isomorphism Theorem and then the proof of it would just be the
    typical construction of it. This really shows that the structure of
    G/K is determined as the image of a homomorphism instead of confusing
    things with cosets. Save cosets for Group Actions.











    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$















      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      I was reading a post here that give some interesting approach about isomorphism theorem (see quote). But there are some things I don't understand. What exactly does this mean?




      The Second Isomorphism Theorem says that the homomorphism F is the
      same on the restriction to H (by restricting the kernal) as it is on
      the smallest subgroup that contains both K and H. F cannot tell the
      difference between them.




      And also the explanation for this




      The Third Isomorphism Theorem tells us that making this stop into G'
      does not affect anything




      is not so clear to me, what exactly does it mean by does not affect anything?



      This was the original post :




      The isomorphism theorems overall tell us that Homomorphisms and Normal
      Subgroups are essentially the same thing. Or, alternatively,
      Homomorphisms are classified by their Kernals.



      The First Isomorphism Theorem sets up the correspondence: For every
      Normal Subgroup K, there is a "unique" surjective Homomorphism with
      kernal K. (I use quotes because we can compose with any isomorphism of
      G/K to get another, but we can see these as the same) Any other
      homomorphism with kernal K will contain the image of this homomorphism
      as an ordinary subgroup.



      That is good and all, but we can do various things within G that may
      change what a homomorphism looks like. We want to classify some of
      these things.



      If we have a homomorphism F from G with kernal K and a subgroup H of
      G, how does F behave when we restrict to H? First, we know that the
      kernal is going to be K∩H, simply by definition. But if we look at the
      subgroup KH, then we are still essentially restricting to K (because
      for kh in KH, F(kh)=F(h), so it only depends on K) but this new group
      contains H now. This can be see as the smallest subgroup of G that
      contains both K and H. The Second Isomorphism Theorem says that the
      homomorphism F is the same on the restriction to H (by restricting the
      kernal) as it is on the smallest subgroup that contains both K and H.
      F cannot tell the difference between them. You should view the Second
      Isomorphism Theorem as the Isomorphism Theorem of Function
      Restriction.



      What happens if we compose two functions? If F is a surjective
      function from G to H, but we can factor this into a composition of two
      functions A from G to G' and B from G' to H (so F=B*A), then what
      happens to the kernals? The Third Isomorphism Theorem tells us that
      making this stop into G' does not affect anything. If N is the kernal
      of F, then the image of F is isomorphis to G/N. But if A has kernal K,
      then we need G'=G/K and the image of N is going to be N/K. Then going
      from G' to H is going to have kernal N/K and so H=G'/(N/K). You should
      see the Third Isomorphism Theorem as the Isomorphism Theorem of
      Function Composition.



      It's a shame that the Isomorphism Theorems are all done in terms of
      quotient groups, which are dry and usually very unmotivated. The focus
      of an intro to Group Theory course should be on Homomorphisms and
      Group Actions rather than on group structure. It really helps motivate
      things, put them into context, apply more fluidly into other areas of
      math and you still get all the structure theorems you could ask for.



      The First Isomorphism Theorem could be stated as such:



      If K is a normal subgroup, then there is a homomorphism with kernal K
      and any two such homomorphisms have isomorphic images. Call the image
      G/K.



      So we define G/K as the image of the homomorphism guaranteed by the
      First Isomorphism Theorem and then the proof of it would just be the
      typical construction of it. This really shows that the structure of
      G/K is determined as the image of a homomorphism instead of confusing
      things with cosets. Save cosets for Group Actions.











      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      I was reading a post here that give some interesting approach about isomorphism theorem (see quote). But there are some things I don't understand. What exactly does this mean?




      The Second Isomorphism Theorem says that the homomorphism F is the
      same on the restriction to H (by restricting the kernal) as it is on
      the smallest subgroup that contains both K and H. F cannot tell the
      difference between them.




      And also the explanation for this




      The Third Isomorphism Theorem tells us that making this stop into G'
      does not affect anything




      is not so clear to me, what exactly does it mean by does not affect anything?



      This was the original post :




      The isomorphism theorems overall tell us that Homomorphisms and Normal
      Subgroups are essentially the same thing. Or, alternatively,
      Homomorphisms are classified by their Kernals.



      The First Isomorphism Theorem sets up the correspondence: For every
      Normal Subgroup K, there is a "unique" surjective Homomorphism with
      kernal K. (I use quotes because we can compose with any isomorphism of
      G/K to get another, but we can see these as the same) Any other
      homomorphism with kernal K will contain the image of this homomorphism
      as an ordinary subgroup.



      That is good and all, but we can do various things within G that may
      change what a homomorphism looks like. We want to classify some of
      these things.



      If we have a homomorphism F from G with kernal K and a subgroup H of
      G, how does F behave when we restrict to H? First, we know that the
      kernal is going to be K∩H, simply by definition. But if we look at the
      subgroup KH, then we are still essentially restricting to K (because
      for kh in KH, F(kh)=F(h), so it only depends on K) but this new group
      contains H now. This can be see as the smallest subgroup of G that
      contains both K and H. The Second Isomorphism Theorem says that the
      homomorphism F is the same on the restriction to H (by restricting the
      kernal) as it is on the smallest subgroup that contains both K and H.
      F cannot tell the difference between them. You should view the Second
      Isomorphism Theorem as the Isomorphism Theorem of Function
      Restriction.



      What happens if we compose two functions? If F is a surjective
      function from G to H, but we can factor this into a composition of two
      functions A from G to G' and B from G' to H (so F=B*A), then what
      happens to the kernals? The Third Isomorphism Theorem tells us that
      making this stop into G' does not affect anything. If N is the kernal
      of F, then the image of F is isomorphis to G/N. But if A has kernal K,
      then we need G'=G/K and the image of N is going to be N/K. Then going
      from G' to H is going to have kernal N/K and so H=G'/(N/K). You should
      see the Third Isomorphism Theorem as the Isomorphism Theorem of
      Function Composition.



      It's a shame that the Isomorphism Theorems are all done in terms of
      quotient groups, which are dry and usually very unmotivated. The focus
      of an intro to Group Theory course should be on Homomorphisms and
      Group Actions rather than on group structure. It really helps motivate
      things, put them into context, apply more fluidly into other areas of
      math and you still get all the structure theorems you could ask for.



      The First Isomorphism Theorem could be stated as such:



      If K is a normal subgroup, then there is a homomorphism with kernal K
      and any two such homomorphisms have isomorphic images. Call the image
      G/K.



      So we define G/K as the image of the homomorphism guaranteed by the
      First Isomorphism Theorem and then the proof of it would just be the
      typical construction of it. This really shows that the structure of
      G/K is determined as the image of a homomorphism instead of confusing
      things with cosets. Save cosets for Group Actions.








      normal-subgroups group-isomorphism group-homomorphism






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Dec 15 '18 at 21:14









      roi_saumonroi_saumon

      59438




      59438






















          0






          active

          oldest

          votes











          Your Answer





          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
          return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
          StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
          StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
          });
          });
          }, "mathjax-editing");

          StackExchange.ready(function() {
          var channelOptions = {
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "69"
          };
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
          createEditor();
          });
          }
          else {
          createEditor();
          }
          });

          function createEditor() {
          StackExchange.prepareEditor({
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
          convertImagesToLinks: true,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: 10,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader: {
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          },
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          });


          }
          });














          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3041969%2fnormal-groups-and-homomorphism-are-the-same-and-this-gives-an-approach-to-isomo%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          0






          active

          oldest

          votes








          0






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes
















          draft saved

          draft discarded




















































          Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

          But avoid



          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


          Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




          draft saved


          draft discarded














          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3041969%2fnormal-groups-and-homomorphism-are-the-same-and-this-gives-an-approach-to-isomo%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown





















































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown

































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown







          Popular posts from this blog

          Bundesstraße 106

          Verónica Boquete

          Ida-Boy-Ed-Garten