Equivalence of definitions of a closed set












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So I am working through some problems on my own and ran into one I have a question about. It is as follows. Let $(X_1,tau_1)$ and $(X_2,tau_2)$ be topological spaces, show that a set is closed iff whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ I don't see how to use the hint that $mathcal{U}(x)={Uintau_1:xin U}$ form a directed set with $Uleq V$ implying $Vsubseteq U$. Any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated.



Attempt: Suppose that whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ For all $xin X_1$ s.t. $xnotin A$
(i.e. $xin A^C$) we have that $x$ is not a limit point of $A$. Hence, $A^C$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Now we only need that $A^C$ is open, which is true since it is a neighborhood of all its points as $x$ was arbitrary. This should give us the first direction. I don't see how to get the other direction based using the provided hint.










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$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Dave
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:09










  • $begingroup$
    I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
    $endgroup$
    – John Mitchell
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:22










  • $begingroup$
    It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – Keenan Kidwell
    Dec 31 '18 at 2:25
















0












$begingroup$


So I am working through some problems on my own and ran into one I have a question about. It is as follows. Let $(X_1,tau_1)$ and $(X_2,tau_2)$ be topological spaces, show that a set is closed iff whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ I don't see how to use the hint that $mathcal{U}(x)={Uintau_1:xin U}$ form a directed set with $Uleq V$ implying $Vsubseteq U$. Any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated.



Attempt: Suppose that whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ For all $xin X_1$ s.t. $xnotin A$
(i.e. $xin A^C$) we have that $x$ is not a limit point of $A$. Hence, $A^C$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Now we only need that $A^C$ is open, which is true since it is a neighborhood of all its points as $x$ was arbitrary. This should give us the first direction. I don't see how to get the other direction based using the provided hint.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Dave
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:09










  • $begingroup$
    I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
    $endgroup$
    – John Mitchell
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:22










  • $begingroup$
    It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – Keenan Kidwell
    Dec 31 '18 at 2:25














0












0








0





$begingroup$


So I am working through some problems on my own and ran into one I have a question about. It is as follows. Let $(X_1,tau_1)$ and $(X_2,tau_2)$ be topological spaces, show that a set is closed iff whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ I don't see how to use the hint that $mathcal{U}(x)={Uintau_1:xin U}$ form a directed set with $Uleq V$ implying $Vsubseteq U$. Any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated.



Attempt: Suppose that whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ For all $xin X_1$ s.t. $xnotin A$
(i.e. $xin A^C$) we have that $x$ is not a limit point of $A$. Hence, $A^C$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Now we only need that $A^C$ is open, which is true since it is a neighborhood of all its points as $x$ was arbitrary. This should give us the first direction. I don't see how to get the other direction based using the provided hint.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




So I am working through some problems on my own and ran into one I have a question about. It is as follows. Let $(X_1,tau_1)$ and $(X_2,tau_2)$ be topological spaces, show that a set is closed iff whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ I don't see how to use the hint that $mathcal{U}(x)={Uintau_1:xin U}$ form a directed set with $Uleq V$ implying $Vsubseteq U$. Any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated.



Attempt: Suppose that whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ For all $xin X_1$ s.t. $xnotin A$
(i.e. $xin A^C$) we have that $x$ is not a limit point of $A$. Hence, $A^C$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Now we only need that $A^C$ is open, which is true since it is a neighborhood of all its points as $x$ was arbitrary. This should give us the first direction. I don't see how to get the other direction based using the provided hint.







general-topology






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edited Dec 31 '18 at 1:34







Scott

















asked Dec 31 '18 at 1:08









ScottScott

38918




38918












  • $begingroup$
    What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Dave
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:09










  • $begingroup$
    I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
    $endgroup$
    – John Mitchell
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:22










  • $begingroup$
    It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – Keenan Kidwell
    Dec 31 '18 at 2:25


















  • $begingroup$
    What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Dave
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:09










  • $begingroup$
    I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
    $endgroup$
    – John Mitchell
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:22










  • $begingroup$
    It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – Keenan Kidwell
    Dec 31 '18 at 2:25
















$begingroup$
What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
$endgroup$
– Dave
Dec 31 '18 at 1:09




$begingroup$
What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
$endgroup$
– Dave
Dec 31 '18 at 1:09












$begingroup$
I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
$endgroup$
– Scott
Dec 31 '18 at 1:13




$begingroup$
I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
$endgroup$
– Scott
Dec 31 '18 at 1:13












$begingroup$
Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
$endgroup$
– John Mitchell
Dec 31 '18 at 1:13




$begingroup$
Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
$endgroup$
– John Mitchell
Dec 31 '18 at 1:13












$begingroup$
I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
$endgroup$
– Scott
Dec 31 '18 at 1:22




$begingroup$
I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
$endgroup$
– Scott
Dec 31 '18 at 1:22












$begingroup$
It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
$endgroup$
– Keenan Kidwell
Dec 31 '18 at 2:25




$begingroup$
It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
$endgroup$
– Keenan Kidwell
Dec 31 '18 at 2:25










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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$begingroup$

Assume A closed. Let n be a net into A that converges to a.

To show a in A use the theorem for closed A

x in A iff for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty

and some facts about convergence of nets to show x in A.



Conversely, to prove A is closed, show

if for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty, then x in A.

So assume for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty.

Use the hint to construct a net into A that converges to x

and with that conclude x in A.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    You define $C$ to be closed if it’s complement is open. But the net convergence equivalent is easier proved using the following equivalent definition:




    $C$ is closed iff for all $x in X$: if every open set $O$ that contains $x$ intersects $C$, then $x in C$.




    Given this, suppose $C$ obeys the net convergence condition. Suppose that $x$ is a point such that every open neighbourhood of $x$ intersects $C$. Then we can apply the hint: define $Gamma$ be the directed set $mathcal{U}(x)$ under reverse inclusion, and pick (by the assumption on $x$ this is possible) a point $x(U) in C cap U$ for every $U in mathcal{U}(x)$. Then this defined a net: $x: Gamma to X$ where all values lie in $C$ by construction and also $x_gamma to x$: let $O$ be any open subset that contains $x$ and note that $O in Gamma$ and if $U ge O$ we have that $U subseteq O$ and so $x(U) in U subseteq O$, so $x(U) in O$. So this shows convergence. By the net convergence condition we can thus conclude $x in C$ and we are done with one direction.



    Suppose $C$ is closed and let $x: Gamma to X$ be any net with values in $C$ such that it converges to $p in X$. Then every open neighbourhood of $p$ contains a point of the net (by convergence to $p$) so in particular a point of $C$. By the equivalent formulation of closedness we see that $p in C$ and so $C$ obeys the net convergence condition.






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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes








      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      0












      $begingroup$

      Assume A closed. Let n be a net into A that converges to a.

      To show a in A use the theorem for closed A

      x in A iff for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty

      and some facts about convergence of nets to show x in A.



      Conversely, to prove A is closed, show

      if for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty, then x in A.

      So assume for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty.

      Use the hint to construct a net into A that converges to x

      and with that conclude x in A.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        0












        $begingroup$

        Assume A closed. Let n be a net into A that converges to a.

        To show a in A use the theorem for closed A

        x in A iff for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty

        and some facts about convergence of nets to show x in A.



        Conversely, to prove A is closed, show

        if for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty, then x in A.

        So assume for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty.

        Use the hint to construct a net into A that converges to x

        and with that conclude x in A.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          0












          0








          0





          $begingroup$

          Assume A closed. Let n be a net into A that converges to a.

          To show a in A use the theorem for closed A

          x in A iff for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty

          and some facts about convergence of nets to show x in A.



          Conversely, to prove A is closed, show

          if for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty, then x in A.

          So assume for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty.

          Use the hint to construct a net into A that converges to x

          and with that conclude x in A.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Assume A closed. Let n be a net into A that converges to a.

          To show a in A use the theorem for closed A

          x in A iff for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty

          and some facts about convergence of nets to show x in A.



          Conversely, to prove A is closed, show

          if for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty, then x in A.

          So assume for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty.

          Use the hint to construct a net into A that converges to x

          and with that conclude x in A.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Dec 31 '18 at 1:59









          William ElliotWilliam Elliot

          9,3012820




          9,3012820























              0












              $begingroup$

              You define $C$ to be closed if it’s complement is open. But the net convergence equivalent is easier proved using the following equivalent definition:




              $C$ is closed iff for all $x in X$: if every open set $O$ that contains $x$ intersects $C$, then $x in C$.




              Given this, suppose $C$ obeys the net convergence condition. Suppose that $x$ is a point such that every open neighbourhood of $x$ intersects $C$. Then we can apply the hint: define $Gamma$ be the directed set $mathcal{U}(x)$ under reverse inclusion, and pick (by the assumption on $x$ this is possible) a point $x(U) in C cap U$ for every $U in mathcal{U}(x)$. Then this defined a net: $x: Gamma to X$ where all values lie in $C$ by construction and also $x_gamma to x$: let $O$ be any open subset that contains $x$ and note that $O in Gamma$ and if $U ge O$ we have that $U subseteq O$ and so $x(U) in U subseteq O$, so $x(U) in O$. So this shows convergence. By the net convergence condition we can thus conclude $x in C$ and we are done with one direction.



              Suppose $C$ is closed and let $x: Gamma to X$ be any net with values in $C$ such that it converges to $p in X$. Then every open neighbourhood of $p$ contains a point of the net (by convergence to $p$) so in particular a point of $C$. By the equivalent formulation of closedness we see that $p in C$ and so $C$ obeys the net convergence condition.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$

                You define $C$ to be closed if it’s complement is open. But the net convergence equivalent is easier proved using the following equivalent definition:




                $C$ is closed iff for all $x in X$: if every open set $O$ that contains $x$ intersects $C$, then $x in C$.




                Given this, suppose $C$ obeys the net convergence condition. Suppose that $x$ is a point such that every open neighbourhood of $x$ intersects $C$. Then we can apply the hint: define $Gamma$ be the directed set $mathcal{U}(x)$ under reverse inclusion, and pick (by the assumption on $x$ this is possible) a point $x(U) in C cap U$ for every $U in mathcal{U}(x)$. Then this defined a net: $x: Gamma to X$ where all values lie in $C$ by construction and also $x_gamma to x$: let $O$ be any open subset that contains $x$ and note that $O in Gamma$ and if $U ge O$ we have that $U subseteq O$ and so $x(U) in U subseteq O$, so $x(U) in O$. So this shows convergence. By the net convergence condition we can thus conclude $x in C$ and we are done with one direction.



                Suppose $C$ is closed and let $x: Gamma to X$ be any net with values in $C$ such that it converges to $p in X$. Then every open neighbourhood of $p$ contains a point of the net (by convergence to $p$) so in particular a point of $C$. By the equivalent formulation of closedness we see that $p in C$ and so $C$ obeys the net convergence condition.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  You define $C$ to be closed if it’s complement is open. But the net convergence equivalent is easier proved using the following equivalent definition:




                  $C$ is closed iff for all $x in X$: if every open set $O$ that contains $x$ intersects $C$, then $x in C$.




                  Given this, suppose $C$ obeys the net convergence condition. Suppose that $x$ is a point such that every open neighbourhood of $x$ intersects $C$. Then we can apply the hint: define $Gamma$ be the directed set $mathcal{U}(x)$ under reverse inclusion, and pick (by the assumption on $x$ this is possible) a point $x(U) in C cap U$ for every $U in mathcal{U}(x)$. Then this defined a net: $x: Gamma to X$ where all values lie in $C$ by construction and also $x_gamma to x$: let $O$ be any open subset that contains $x$ and note that $O in Gamma$ and if $U ge O$ we have that $U subseteq O$ and so $x(U) in U subseteq O$, so $x(U) in O$. So this shows convergence. By the net convergence condition we can thus conclude $x in C$ and we are done with one direction.



                  Suppose $C$ is closed and let $x: Gamma to X$ be any net with values in $C$ such that it converges to $p in X$. Then every open neighbourhood of $p$ contains a point of the net (by convergence to $p$) so in particular a point of $C$. By the equivalent formulation of closedness we see that $p in C$ and so $C$ obeys the net convergence condition.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  You define $C$ to be closed if it’s complement is open. But the net convergence equivalent is easier proved using the following equivalent definition:




                  $C$ is closed iff for all $x in X$: if every open set $O$ that contains $x$ intersects $C$, then $x in C$.




                  Given this, suppose $C$ obeys the net convergence condition. Suppose that $x$ is a point such that every open neighbourhood of $x$ intersects $C$. Then we can apply the hint: define $Gamma$ be the directed set $mathcal{U}(x)$ under reverse inclusion, and pick (by the assumption on $x$ this is possible) a point $x(U) in C cap U$ for every $U in mathcal{U}(x)$. Then this defined a net: $x: Gamma to X$ where all values lie in $C$ by construction and also $x_gamma to x$: let $O$ be any open subset that contains $x$ and note that $O in Gamma$ and if $U ge O$ we have that $U subseteq O$ and so $x(U) in U subseteq O$, so $x(U) in O$. So this shows convergence. By the net convergence condition we can thus conclude $x in C$ and we are done with one direction.



                  Suppose $C$ is closed and let $x: Gamma to X$ be any net with values in $C$ such that it converges to $p in X$. Then every open neighbourhood of $p$ contains a point of the net (by convergence to $p$) so in particular a point of $C$. By the equivalent formulation of closedness we see that $p in C$ and so $C$ obeys the net convergence condition.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Dec 31 '18 at 13:07









                  Henno BrandsmaHenno Brandsma

                  118k350128




                  118k350128






























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