The cornerstone definition in Abstract Elementary Classes
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In the first paragraph of p.41 of Introduction to: classification theory for abstract elementary class, Shelah gives the following definition of (Galois) type.
For $Mpreceq N_ell$ and $a_ellin N_ell setminus M$, $mathbf {tp}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ iff for some $preceq$-extension $N_3$ of $N_2$ there is a $preceq$-embedding of $N_1$ into $N_3$ over $M$ which maps $a_1$ to $a_2$, recalling that $mathfrak K_lambda$ has amalgamation.
I have omitted references in the notation to the AEC $mathfrak{K}_lambda$ in which this is taking place.
How do I see that this definition is equivalent to the following definition?
For $Mpreceq N_ell$ and $a_ellin N_ell setminus M$, $mathbf {tp}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ iff there exist $preceq$-embeddings $h: N_1to N_3$ and $g:N_2to N_3$ such that the resulting square commutes and $h(a_1) = g(a_2)$.
Also:
Why does Shelah write "recalling that $mathfrak K_lambda$ has amalgamation" after his definition?
In the definition, why does Shelah write $mathbf{tp}_{mathfrak{K}_lambda}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}_{mathfrak{K}}(a_2,M,N_2)$? (Note: there is no $lambda$ in the r.h.s.,but there is one in the l.h.s.)
In the second definition, do we assume that $g$ and $h$ fix $M$?
logic model-theory
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the first paragraph of p.41 of Introduction to: classification theory for abstract elementary class, Shelah gives the following definition of (Galois) type.
For $Mpreceq N_ell$ and $a_ellin N_ell setminus M$, $mathbf {tp}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ iff for some $preceq$-extension $N_3$ of $N_2$ there is a $preceq$-embedding of $N_1$ into $N_3$ over $M$ which maps $a_1$ to $a_2$, recalling that $mathfrak K_lambda$ has amalgamation.
I have omitted references in the notation to the AEC $mathfrak{K}_lambda$ in which this is taking place.
How do I see that this definition is equivalent to the following definition?
For $Mpreceq N_ell$ and $a_ellin N_ell setminus M$, $mathbf {tp}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ iff there exist $preceq$-embeddings $h: N_1to N_3$ and $g:N_2to N_3$ such that the resulting square commutes and $h(a_1) = g(a_2)$.
Also:
Why does Shelah write "recalling that $mathfrak K_lambda$ has amalgamation" after his definition?
In the definition, why does Shelah write $mathbf{tp}_{mathfrak{K}_lambda}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}_{mathfrak{K}}(a_2,M,N_2)$? (Note: there is no $lambda$ in the r.h.s.,but there is one in the l.h.s.)
In the second definition, do we assume that $g$ and $h$ fix $M$?
logic model-theory
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I don't understand your question - you're asking how to see that something from the first paragraph on p. 41 is equivalent to "that definition using two maps..." but it's not clear what. Could write out in detail the two statements/definitions that you want to show are equivalent?
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– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 17:38
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@AlexKruckman Please, see EDIT in my OQ.
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– user122424
Dec 17 '18 at 18:03
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The question was still a total mess, so I edited it. This involved a bit of interpretation, so please make sure I maintained the intention of the question.
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 19:16
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the first paragraph of p.41 of Introduction to: classification theory for abstract elementary class, Shelah gives the following definition of (Galois) type.
For $Mpreceq N_ell$ and $a_ellin N_ell setminus M$, $mathbf {tp}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ iff for some $preceq$-extension $N_3$ of $N_2$ there is a $preceq$-embedding of $N_1$ into $N_3$ over $M$ which maps $a_1$ to $a_2$, recalling that $mathfrak K_lambda$ has amalgamation.
I have omitted references in the notation to the AEC $mathfrak{K}_lambda$ in which this is taking place.
How do I see that this definition is equivalent to the following definition?
For $Mpreceq N_ell$ and $a_ellin N_ell setminus M$, $mathbf {tp}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ iff there exist $preceq$-embeddings $h: N_1to N_3$ and $g:N_2to N_3$ such that the resulting square commutes and $h(a_1) = g(a_2)$.
Also:
Why does Shelah write "recalling that $mathfrak K_lambda$ has amalgamation" after his definition?
In the definition, why does Shelah write $mathbf{tp}_{mathfrak{K}_lambda}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}_{mathfrak{K}}(a_2,M,N_2)$? (Note: there is no $lambda$ in the r.h.s.,but there is one in the l.h.s.)
In the second definition, do we assume that $g$ and $h$ fix $M$?
logic model-theory
$endgroup$
In the first paragraph of p.41 of Introduction to: classification theory for abstract elementary class, Shelah gives the following definition of (Galois) type.
For $Mpreceq N_ell$ and $a_ellin N_ell setminus M$, $mathbf {tp}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ iff for some $preceq$-extension $N_3$ of $N_2$ there is a $preceq$-embedding of $N_1$ into $N_3$ over $M$ which maps $a_1$ to $a_2$, recalling that $mathfrak K_lambda$ has amalgamation.
I have omitted references in the notation to the AEC $mathfrak{K}_lambda$ in which this is taking place.
How do I see that this definition is equivalent to the following definition?
For $Mpreceq N_ell$ and $a_ellin N_ell setminus M$, $mathbf {tp}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ iff there exist $preceq$-embeddings $h: N_1to N_3$ and $g:N_2to N_3$ such that the resulting square commutes and $h(a_1) = g(a_2)$.
Also:
Why does Shelah write "recalling that $mathfrak K_lambda$ has amalgamation" after his definition?
In the definition, why does Shelah write $mathbf{tp}_{mathfrak{K}_lambda}(a_1,M,N_1)=mathbf{tp}_{mathfrak{K}}(a_2,M,N_2)$? (Note: there is no $lambda$ in the r.h.s.,but there is one in the l.h.s.)
In the second definition, do we assume that $g$ and $h$ fix $M$?
logic model-theory
logic model-theory
edited Dec 18 '18 at 5:15
Asaf Karagila♦
306k33438769
306k33438769
asked Dec 17 '18 at 16:08
user122424user122424
1,1582717
1,1582717
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I don't understand your question - you're asking how to see that something from the first paragraph on p. 41 is equivalent to "that definition using two maps..." but it's not clear what. Could write out in detail the two statements/definitions that you want to show are equivalent?
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– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 17:38
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@AlexKruckman Please, see EDIT in my OQ.
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 17 '18 at 18:03
$begingroup$
The question was still a total mess, so I edited it. This involved a bit of interpretation, so please make sure I maintained the intention of the question.
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 19:16
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don't understand your question - you're asking how to see that something from the first paragraph on p. 41 is equivalent to "that definition using two maps..." but it's not clear what. Could write out in detail the two statements/definitions that you want to show are equivalent?
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 17:38
$begingroup$
@AlexKruckman Please, see EDIT in my OQ.
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 17 '18 at 18:03
$begingroup$
The question was still a total mess, so I edited it. This involved a bit of interpretation, so please make sure I maintained the intention of the question.
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 19:16
$begingroup$
I don't understand your question - you're asking how to see that something from the first paragraph on p. 41 is equivalent to "that definition using two maps..." but it's not clear what. Could write out in detail the two statements/definitions that you want to show are equivalent?
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 17:38
$begingroup$
I don't understand your question - you're asking how to see that something from the first paragraph on p. 41 is equivalent to "that definition using two maps..." but it's not clear what. Could write out in detail the two statements/definitions that you want to show are equivalent?
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 17:38
$begingroup$
@AlexKruckman Please, see EDIT in my OQ.
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 17 '18 at 18:03
$begingroup$
@AlexKruckman Please, see EDIT in my OQ.
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 17 '18 at 18:03
$begingroup$
The question was still a total mess, so I edited it. This involved a bit of interpretation, so please make sure I maintained the intention of the question.
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 19:16
$begingroup$
The question was still a total mess, so I edited it. This involved a bit of interpretation, so please make sure I maintained the intention of the question.
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 19:16
add a comment |
1 Answer
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active
oldest
votes
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These definitions are saying almost exactly the same thing. They really only differ in whether they require $N_2$ to be a substructure of $N_3$, or just embedded into it.
Suppose $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the first definition. Then we have an extension $N_2preceq N_3$ and a $preceq$-embedding $hcolon N_1to N_3$ over $M$ such that $h(a_1) = a_2$. Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2to N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $min M$, $h(m) = m = g(m)$. [This is what it means to say that $h$ is a map over $M$.] And $h(a_1) = a_2 = g(a_2)$. So $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the second definition.
Conversely, suppose $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the second definition. Then we have $preceq$-embeddings $hcolon N_1to N_3$ and $gcolon N_2to N_3$ such that the resulting square commutes and $h(a_1) = g(a_2)$. Now we may assume that $N_2preceq N_3$ and $g$ is the inclusion mapping, by replacing $N_3$ with an isomorphic copy. And then $h(a_1) = g(a_2) = a_2$, so $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the first definition.
For your additional questions:
- It's because a more complicated definition of Galois type turns out to be necessary in AECs without amalgamation. If the AEC lacks amalgamation, then the relation $text{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = text{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ defined in the question (in either of the equivalent ways) might not be transitive, and hence not an equivalence relation on triples $(a,M,N)$. I believe the usual fix is just to take the transitive closure of this relation.
- My best guess is that it's a typo.
- I don't know what this means. We have $Msubseteq N_1$ and $hcolon N_1to N_3$. Since $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$, $h$ can't fix $M$. Certainly definition 2 assumes that for all $min M$, $h(m) = g(m)$, which is exactly what it means to say the square commutes.
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Could you please correct your 4th line in which there is an incomplete notation $(a_1)=a_2$ ?
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– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:03
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@user122424 Done
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– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 17:05
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How do we find that the squares commutes in your sentence "Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2→N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $m∈M$, $h(m)=m=g(m)$." ? More precisely how can I justify $h(m)=m$, the second equality is clear to me.
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– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:51
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@user122424 I already explained in the bracketed comment. To say $hcolon N_1 to N_3$ is a map over $M$ is to say that $h$ is the identity when restricted to $M$, i.e. $h(m) = m$ for all $min M$. (Of course this only makes sense when $Msubseteq N_1$ and $Msubseteq N_3$).
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– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 18:26
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But in the -3rd line in your item $3.$ you write $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$ and in the above comment you write "(Of course this only makes sense when $M⊆N_1$ and $M⊆N_3$)".
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– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 20:38
|
show 3 more comments
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1 Answer
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$begingroup$
These definitions are saying almost exactly the same thing. They really only differ in whether they require $N_2$ to be a substructure of $N_3$, or just embedded into it.
Suppose $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the first definition. Then we have an extension $N_2preceq N_3$ and a $preceq$-embedding $hcolon N_1to N_3$ over $M$ such that $h(a_1) = a_2$. Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2to N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $min M$, $h(m) = m = g(m)$. [This is what it means to say that $h$ is a map over $M$.] And $h(a_1) = a_2 = g(a_2)$. So $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the second definition.
Conversely, suppose $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the second definition. Then we have $preceq$-embeddings $hcolon N_1to N_3$ and $gcolon N_2to N_3$ such that the resulting square commutes and $h(a_1) = g(a_2)$. Now we may assume that $N_2preceq N_3$ and $g$ is the inclusion mapping, by replacing $N_3$ with an isomorphic copy. And then $h(a_1) = g(a_2) = a_2$, so $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the first definition.
For your additional questions:
- It's because a more complicated definition of Galois type turns out to be necessary in AECs without amalgamation. If the AEC lacks amalgamation, then the relation $text{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = text{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ defined in the question (in either of the equivalent ways) might not be transitive, and hence not an equivalence relation on triples $(a,M,N)$. I believe the usual fix is just to take the transitive closure of this relation.
- My best guess is that it's a typo.
- I don't know what this means. We have $Msubseteq N_1$ and $hcolon N_1to N_3$. Since $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$, $h$ can't fix $M$. Certainly definition 2 assumes that for all $min M$, $h(m) = g(m)$, which is exactly what it means to say the square commutes.
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Could you please correct your 4th line in which there is an incomplete notation $(a_1)=a_2$ ?
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– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:03
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@user122424 Done
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– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 17:05
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How do we find that the squares commutes in your sentence "Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2→N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $m∈M$, $h(m)=m=g(m)$." ? More precisely how can I justify $h(m)=m$, the second equality is clear to me.
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– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:51
$begingroup$
@user122424 I already explained in the bracketed comment. To say $hcolon N_1 to N_3$ is a map over $M$ is to say that $h$ is the identity when restricted to $M$, i.e. $h(m) = m$ for all $min M$. (Of course this only makes sense when $Msubseteq N_1$ and $Msubseteq N_3$).
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– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 18:26
$begingroup$
But in the -3rd line in your item $3.$ you write $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$ and in the above comment you write "(Of course this only makes sense when $M⊆N_1$ and $M⊆N_3$)".
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 20:38
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
These definitions are saying almost exactly the same thing. They really only differ in whether they require $N_2$ to be a substructure of $N_3$, or just embedded into it.
Suppose $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the first definition. Then we have an extension $N_2preceq N_3$ and a $preceq$-embedding $hcolon N_1to N_3$ over $M$ such that $h(a_1) = a_2$. Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2to N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $min M$, $h(m) = m = g(m)$. [This is what it means to say that $h$ is a map over $M$.] And $h(a_1) = a_2 = g(a_2)$. So $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the second definition.
Conversely, suppose $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the second definition. Then we have $preceq$-embeddings $hcolon N_1to N_3$ and $gcolon N_2to N_3$ such that the resulting square commutes and $h(a_1) = g(a_2)$. Now we may assume that $N_2preceq N_3$ and $g$ is the inclusion mapping, by replacing $N_3$ with an isomorphic copy. And then $h(a_1) = g(a_2) = a_2$, so $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the first definition.
For your additional questions:
- It's because a more complicated definition of Galois type turns out to be necessary in AECs without amalgamation. If the AEC lacks amalgamation, then the relation $text{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = text{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ defined in the question (in either of the equivalent ways) might not be transitive, and hence not an equivalence relation on triples $(a,M,N)$. I believe the usual fix is just to take the transitive closure of this relation.
- My best guess is that it's a typo.
- I don't know what this means. We have $Msubseteq N_1$ and $hcolon N_1to N_3$. Since $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$, $h$ can't fix $M$. Certainly definition 2 assumes that for all $min M$, $h(m) = g(m)$, which is exactly what it means to say the square commutes.
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$begingroup$
Could you please correct your 4th line in which there is an incomplete notation $(a_1)=a_2$ ?
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– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:03
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@user122424 Done
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 17:05
$begingroup$
How do we find that the squares commutes in your sentence "Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2→N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $m∈M$, $h(m)=m=g(m)$." ? More precisely how can I justify $h(m)=m$, the second equality is clear to me.
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:51
$begingroup$
@user122424 I already explained in the bracketed comment. To say $hcolon N_1 to N_3$ is a map over $M$ is to say that $h$ is the identity when restricted to $M$, i.e. $h(m) = m$ for all $min M$. (Of course this only makes sense when $Msubseteq N_1$ and $Msubseteq N_3$).
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 18:26
$begingroup$
But in the -3rd line in your item $3.$ you write $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$ and in the above comment you write "(Of course this only makes sense when $M⊆N_1$ and $M⊆N_3$)".
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 20:38
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
These definitions are saying almost exactly the same thing. They really only differ in whether they require $N_2$ to be a substructure of $N_3$, or just embedded into it.
Suppose $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the first definition. Then we have an extension $N_2preceq N_3$ and a $preceq$-embedding $hcolon N_1to N_3$ over $M$ such that $h(a_1) = a_2$. Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2to N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $min M$, $h(m) = m = g(m)$. [This is what it means to say that $h$ is a map over $M$.] And $h(a_1) = a_2 = g(a_2)$. So $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the second definition.
Conversely, suppose $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the second definition. Then we have $preceq$-embeddings $hcolon N_1to N_3$ and $gcolon N_2to N_3$ such that the resulting square commutes and $h(a_1) = g(a_2)$. Now we may assume that $N_2preceq N_3$ and $g$ is the inclusion mapping, by replacing $N_3$ with an isomorphic copy. And then $h(a_1) = g(a_2) = a_2$, so $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the first definition.
For your additional questions:
- It's because a more complicated definition of Galois type turns out to be necessary in AECs without amalgamation. If the AEC lacks amalgamation, then the relation $text{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = text{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ defined in the question (in either of the equivalent ways) might not be transitive, and hence not an equivalence relation on triples $(a,M,N)$. I believe the usual fix is just to take the transitive closure of this relation.
- My best guess is that it's a typo.
- I don't know what this means. We have $Msubseteq N_1$ and $hcolon N_1to N_3$. Since $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$, $h$ can't fix $M$. Certainly definition 2 assumes that for all $min M$, $h(m) = g(m)$, which is exactly what it means to say the square commutes.
$endgroup$
These definitions are saying almost exactly the same thing. They really only differ in whether they require $N_2$ to be a substructure of $N_3$, or just embedded into it.
Suppose $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the first definition. Then we have an extension $N_2preceq N_3$ and a $preceq$-embedding $hcolon N_1to N_3$ over $M$ such that $h(a_1) = a_2$. Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2to N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $min M$, $h(m) = m = g(m)$. [This is what it means to say that $h$ is a map over $M$.] And $h(a_1) = a_2 = g(a_2)$. So $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the second definition.
Conversely, suppose $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the second definition. Then we have $preceq$-embeddings $hcolon N_1to N_3$ and $gcolon N_2to N_3$ such that the resulting square commutes and $h(a_1) = g(a_2)$. Now we may assume that $N_2preceq N_3$ and $g$ is the inclusion mapping, by replacing $N_3$ with an isomorphic copy. And then $h(a_1) = g(a_2) = a_2$, so $mathbf{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = mathbf{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ in the sense of the first definition.
For your additional questions:
- It's because a more complicated definition of Galois type turns out to be necessary in AECs without amalgamation. If the AEC lacks amalgamation, then the relation $text{tp}(a_1,M,N_1) = text{tp}(a_2,M,N_2)$ defined in the question (in either of the equivalent ways) might not be transitive, and hence not an equivalence relation on triples $(a,M,N)$. I believe the usual fix is just to take the transitive closure of this relation.
- My best guess is that it's a typo.
- I don't know what this means. We have $Msubseteq N_1$ and $hcolon N_1to N_3$. Since $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$, $h$ can't fix $M$. Certainly definition 2 assumes that for all $min M$, $h(m) = g(m)$, which is exactly what it means to say the square commutes.
edited Dec 18 '18 at 17:05
answered Dec 17 '18 at 19:38
Alex KruckmanAlex Kruckman
28k32658
28k32658
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Could you please correct your 4th line in which there is an incomplete notation $(a_1)=a_2$ ?
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– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:03
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@user122424 Done
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– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 17:05
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How do we find that the squares commutes in your sentence "Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2→N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $m∈M$, $h(m)=m=g(m)$." ? More precisely how can I justify $h(m)=m$, the second equality is clear to me.
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– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:51
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@user122424 I already explained in the bracketed comment. To say $hcolon N_1 to N_3$ is a map over $M$ is to say that $h$ is the identity when restricted to $M$, i.e. $h(m) = m$ for all $min M$. (Of course this only makes sense when $Msubseteq N_1$ and $Msubseteq N_3$).
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– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 18:26
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But in the -3rd line in your item $3.$ you write $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$ and in the above comment you write "(Of course this only makes sense when $M⊆N_1$ and $M⊆N_3$)".
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– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 20:38
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show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Could you please correct your 4th line in which there is an incomplete notation $(a_1)=a_2$ ?
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:03
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@user122424 Done
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 17:05
$begingroup$
How do we find that the squares commutes in your sentence "Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2→N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $m∈M$, $h(m)=m=g(m)$." ? More precisely how can I justify $h(m)=m$, the second equality is clear to me.
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:51
$begingroup$
@user122424 I already explained in the bracketed comment. To say $hcolon N_1 to N_3$ is a map over $M$ is to say that $h$ is the identity when restricted to $M$, i.e. $h(m) = m$ for all $min M$. (Of course this only makes sense when $Msubseteq N_1$ and $Msubseteq N_3$).
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 18:26
$begingroup$
But in the -3rd line in your item $3.$ you write $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$ and in the above comment you write "(Of course this only makes sense when $M⊆N_1$ and $M⊆N_3$)".
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 20:38
$begingroup$
Could you please correct your 4th line in which there is an incomplete notation $(a_1)=a_2$ ?
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:03
$begingroup$
Could you please correct your 4th line in which there is an incomplete notation $(a_1)=a_2$ ?
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:03
$begingroup$
@user122424 Done
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 17:05
$begingroup$
@user122424 Done
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 17:05
$begingroup$
How do we find that the squares commutes in your sentence "Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2→N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $m∈M$, $h(m)=m=g(m)$." ? More precisely how can I justify $h(m)=m$, the second equality is clear to me.
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:51
$begingroup$
How do we find that the squares commutes in your sentence "Taking $g$ to be the inclusion $N_2→N_3$, we find that the square commutes: for all $m∈M$, $h(m)=m=g(m)$." ? More precisely how can I justify $h(m)=m$, the second equality is clear to me.
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 17:51
$begingroup$
@user122424 I already explained in the bracketed comment. To say $hcolon N_1 to N_3$ is a map over $M$ is to say that $h$ is the identity when restricted to $M$, i.e. $h(m) = m$ for all $min M$. (Of course this only makes sense when $Msubseteq N_1$ and $Msubseteq N_3$).
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 18:26
$begingroup$
@user122424 I already explained in the bracketed comment. To say $hcolon N_1 to N_3$ is a map over $M$ is to say that $h$ is the identity when restricted to $M$, i.e. $h(m) = m$ for all $min M$. (Of course this only makes sense when $Msubseteq N_1$ and $Msubseteq N_3$).
$endgroup$
– Alex Kruckman
Dec 18 '18 at 18:26
$begingroup$
But in the -3rd line in your item $3.$ you write $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$ and in the above comment you write "(Of course this only makes sense when $M⊆N_1$ and $M⊆N_3$)".
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 20:38
$begingroup$
But in the -3rd line in your item $3.$ you write $M$ is not assumed to be a subset of $N_3$ and in the above comment you write "(Of course this only makes sense when $M⊆N_1$ and $M⊆N_3$)".
$endgroup$
– user122424
Dec 18 '18 at 20:38
|
show 3 more comments
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$begingroup$
I don't understand your question - you're asking how to see that something from the first paragraph on p. 41 is equivalent to "that definition using two maps..." but it's not clear what. Could write out in detail the two statements/definitions that you want to show are equivalent?
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– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 17:38
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@AlexKruckman Please, see EDIT in my OQ.
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– user122424
Dec 17 '18 at 18:03
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The question was still a total mess, so I edited it. This involved a bit of interpretation, so please make sure I maintained the intention of the question.
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– Alex Kruckman
Dec 17 '18 at 19:16