Proving that $T$ is self-adjoint (or that $A,B$ are vertical to each other)











up vote
0
down vote

favorite












I'm facing the following problem:



Let $X$ be a Hilbert space, $A,B$ be subspaces of $X$ such that $X=Aoplus B$ and $Tin B(X)$ such that $Tvert_A=text{Id}_A$, $Tvert_B=-text{Id}_B$. Prove that $T=T^{-1}$ and that $T^*=T$.



The first statement is easy; indeed, if $x=a+b$, then $Tx=a-b$, therefore $TTx=a+b=x$, thus $TT=text{Id}_X$ and we are done.
But I really can't move on with the second statement. I proved that $T^*=T$ if and only if $Abot B$:



Indeed, if $T^*=T$, then $<Tx,y>=<x,T^*y>=<x,Ty>$ for all $x,y$, which yields $<Tx-x,y+Ty>=0$. If $a,bin A,B$ respectively, then for $x=b, y=a$ we have that $<a,b>=0$.
The converse is obvious by taking random $x,y$ and writing them in the form $a+b$ where $ain A, bin B$. But I can't prove that $Abot B$. I tried taking the closure of $A$ and writing $X$ as $X=overline{A}oplusoverline{A}^{bot}$ ,and, since $overline{A}^bot=A^bot$, $X=overline{A}oplus A^{bot}$ but I couldn't move on. Any ideas?










share|cite|improve this question






















  • I do not understand your question. In the third paragraph, you prove indeed that $T=T^*$ implies $Aperp B$.
    – daw
    Nov 16 at 19:22










  • @daw I want to prove that $T=T^*$. My only progress was that $T=T^*iff Abot B$. The third paragraph is this proof, but I can't prove that $Abot B$.
    – JustDroppedIn
    Nov 16 at 19:42










  • The part between 'Indeed' and $langle a,brangle=0$ IS the proof of $T=T^*$ $Rightarrow$ $Aperp B$. Please reread your question and comment and revise.
    – daw
    Nov 16 at 20:11






  • 1




    @daw $Abot B implies T=T^*$ is obvious as i say. So, by proving this equivalence, i prove that the problem "prove that $T=T^*$" is the same as "prove that $Abot B$". Please reread my question and comment and revise.
    – JustDroppedIn
    Nov 16 at 20:16

















up vote
0
down vote

favorite












I'm facing the following problem:



Let $X$ be a Hilbert space, $A,B$ be subspaces of $X$ such that $X=Aoplus B$ and $Tin B(X)$ such that $Tvert_A=text{Id}_A$, $Tvert_B=-text{Id}_B$. Prove that $T=T^{-1}$ and that $T^*=T$.



The first statement is easy; indeed, if $x=a+b$, then $Tx=a-b$, therefore $TTx=a+b=x$, thus $TT=text{Id}_X$ and we are done.
But I really can't move on with the second statement. I proved that $T^*=T$ if and only if $Abot B$:



Indeed, if $T^*=T$, then $<Tx,y>=<x,T^*y>=<x,Ty>$ for all $x,y$, which yields $<Tx-x,y+Ty>=0$. If $a,bin A,B$ respectively, then for $x=b, y=a$ we have that $<a,b>=0$.
The converse is obvious by taking random $x,y$ and writing them in the form $a+b$ where $ain A, bin B$. But I can't prove that $Abot B$. I tried taking the closure of $A$ and writing $X$ as $X=overline{A}oplusoverline{A}^{bot}$ ,and, since $overline{A}^bot=A^bot$, $X=overline{A}oplus A^{bot}$ but I couldn't move on. Any ideas?










share|cite|improve this question






















  • I do not understand your question. In the third paragraph, you prove indeed that $T=T^*$ implies $Aperp B$.
    – daw
    Nov 16 at 19:22










  • @daw I want to prove that $T=T^*$. My only progress was that $T=T^*iff Abot B$. The third paragraph is this proof, but I can't prove that $Abot B$.
    – JustDroppedIn
    Nov 16 at 19:42










  • The part between 'Indeed' and $langle a,brangle=0$ IS the proof of $T=T^*$ $Rightarrow$ $Aperp B$. Please reread your question and comment and revise.
    – daw
    Nov 16 at 20:11






  • 1




    @daw $Abot B implies T=T^*$ is obvious as i say. So, by proving this equivalence, i prove that the problem "prove that $T=T^*$" is the same as "prove that $Abot B$". Please reread my question and comment and revise.
    – JustDroppedIn
    Nov 16 at 20:16















up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











I'm facing the following problem:



Let $X$ be a Hilbert space, $A,B$ be subspaces of $X$ such that $X=Aoplus B$ and $Tin B(X)$ such that $Tvert_A=text{Id}_A$, $Tvert_B=-text{Id}_B$. Prove that $T=T^{-1}$ and that $T^*=T$.



The first statement is easy; indeed, if $x=a+b$, then $Tx=a-b$, therefore $TTx=a+b=x$, thus $TT=text{Id}_X$ and we are done.
But I really can't move on with the second statement. I proved that $T^*=T$ if and only if $Abot B$:



Indeed, if $T^*=T$, then $<Tx,y>=<x,T^*y>=<x,Ty>$ for all $x,y$, which yields $<Tx-x,y+Ty>=0$. If $a,bin A,B$ respectively, then for $x=b, y=a$ we have that $<a,b>=0$.
The converse is obvious by taking random $x,y$ and writing them in the form $a+b$ where $ain A, bin B$. But I can't prove that $Abot B$. I tried taking the closure of $A$ and writing $X$ as $X=overline{A}oplusoverline{A}^{bot}$ ,and, since $overline{A}^bot=A^bot$, $X=overline{A}oplus A^{bot}$ but I couldn't move on. Any ideas?










share|cite|improve this question













I'm facing the following problem:



Let $X$ be a Hilbert space, $A,B$ be subspaces of $X$ such that $X=Aoplus B$ and $Tin B(X)$ such that $Tvert_A=text{Id}_A$, $Tvert_B=-text{Id}_B$. Prove that $T=T^{-1}$ and that $T^*=T$.



The first statement is easy; indeed, if $x=a+b$, then $Tx=a-b$, therefore $TTx=a+b=x$, thus $TT=text{Id}_X$ and we are done.
But I really can't move on with the second statement. I proved that $T^*=T$ if and only if $Abot B$:



Indeed, if $T^*=T$, then $<Tx,y>=<x,T^*y>=<x,Ty>$ for all $x,y$, which yields $<Tx-x,y+Ty>=0$. If $a,bin A,B$ respectively, then for $x=b, y=a$ we have that $<a,b>=0$.
The converse is obvious by taking random $x,y$ and writing them in the form $a+b$ where $ain A, bin B$. But I can't prove that $Abot B$. I tried taking the closure of $A$ and writing $X$ as $X=overline{A}oplusoverline{A}^{bot}$ ,and, since $overline{A}^bot=A^bot$, $X=overline{A}oplus A^{bot}$ but I couldn't move on. Any ideas?







functional-analysis operator-theory hilbert-spaces






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Nov 16 at 17:31









JustDroppedIn

1,754419




1,754419












  • I do not understand your question. In the third paragraph, you prove indeed that $T=T^*$ implies $Aperp B$.
    – daw
    Nov 16 at 19:22










  • @daw I want to prove that $T=T^*$. My only progress was that $T=T^*iff Abot B$. The third paragraph is this proof, but I can't prove that $Abot B$.
    – JustDroppedIn
    Nov 16 at 19:42










  • The part between 'Indeed' and $langle a,brangle=0$ IS the proof of $T=T^*$ $Rightarrow$ $Aperp B$. Please reread your question and comment and revise.
    – daw
    Nov 16 at 20:11






  • 1




    @daw $Abot B implies T=T^*$ is obvious as i say. So, by proving this equivalence, i prove that the problem "prove that $T=T^*$" is the same as "prove that $Abot B$". Please reread my question and comment and revise.
    – JustDroppedIn
    Nov 16 at 20:16




















  • I do not understand your question. In the third paragraph, you prove indeed that $T=T^*$ implies $Aperp B$.
    – daw
    Nov 16 at 19:22










  • @daw I want to prove that $T=T^*$. My only progress was that $T=T^*iff Abot B$. The third paragraph is this proof, but I can't prove that $Abot B$.
    – JustDroppedIn
    Nov 16 at 19:42










  • The part between 'Indeed' and $langle a,brangle=0$ IS the proof of $T=T^*$ $Rightarrow$ $Aperp B$. Please reread your question and comment and revise.
    – daw
    Nov 16 at 20:11






  • 1




    @daw $Abot B implies T=T^*$ is obvious as i say. So, by proving this equivalence, i prove that the problem "prove that $T=T^*$" is the same as "prove that $Abot B$". Please reread my question and comment and revise.
    – JustDroppedIn
    Nov 16 at 20:16


















I do not understand your question. In the third paragraph, you prove indeed that $T=T^*$ implies $Aperp B$.
– daw
Nov 16 at 19:22




I do not understand your question. In the third paragraph, you prove indeed that $T=T^*$ implies $Aperp B$.
– daw
Nov 16 at 19:22












@daw I want to prove that $T=T^*$. My only progress was that $T=T^*iff Abot B$. The third paragraph is this proof, but I can't prove that $Abot B$.
– JustDroppedIn
Nov 16 at 19:42




@daw I want to prove that $T=T^*$. My only progress was that $T=T^*iff Abot B$. The third paragraph is this proof, but I can't prove that $Abot B$.
– JustDroppedIn
Nov 16 at 19:42












The part between 'Indeed' and $langle a,brangle=0$ IS the proof of $T=T^*$ $Rightarrow$ $Aperp B$. Please reread your question and comment and revise.
– daw
Nov 16 at 20:11




The part between 'Indeed' and $langle a,brangle=0$ IS the proof of $T=T^*$ $Rightarrow$ $Aperp B$. Please reread your question and comment and revise.
– daw
Nov 16 at 20:11




1




1




@daw $Abot B implies T=T^*$ is obvious as i say. So, by proving this equivalence, i prove that the problem "prove that $T=T^*$" is the same as "prove that $Abot B$". Please reread my question and comment and revise.
– JustDroppedIn
Nov 16 at 20:16






@daw $Abot B implies T=T^*$ is obvious as i say. So, by proving this equivalence, i prove that the problem "prove that $T=T^*$" is the same as "prove that $Abot B$". Please reread my question and comment and revise.
– JustDroppedIn
Nov 16 at 20:16












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote



accepted










Your problem in understanding here might be that "verticality" of $A$ and $B$ are due to the definition of the direct sum of Hilbert spaces.



For arbitrary Hilbert spaces $(A,langlecdot,cdotrangle_A)$, $(B,langlecdot,cdotrangle_B)$, one defines the direct sum as ordered pairs of the form
$$
Aoplus B=lbrace (a,b),|,ain A,bin Brbrace
$$

which turns into a vector space with componentwise addition and scalar multiplication. Then $Aoplus B$ becomes a Hilbert space under the scalar product
$$
biglangle (a_1,b_1),(a_2,b_2)bigrangle_{Aoplus B}:=langle a_1,a_2rangle_A+langle b_1,b_2rangle_B,.tag{1}
$$

Now it is customary to write these elements of not as ordered pairs $(a,b)$, but as a sum $a+b$ (by identifying $A$ with $Atimeslbrace 0rbracesubset Aotimes B$ and same with $B$). With this identification, every $xin Aoplus B$ can be uniquely expressed as $x=a+b$ for some $ain A$, $bin B$. So in some sense it is by definition that
$$
langle x,Tyrangle=biglangle a_1+b_1,(operatorname{Id}_Aa_2-operatorname{Id}_Bb_2)bigrangle=langle a_1+b_1,a_2-b_2rangleoverset{(1)}=langle a_1,a_2rangle-langle b_1,b_2rangle=ldots= langle Tx,yrangle,,
$$

because $Aoplus B$ by definition (1) / construction / assumption are "orthogonal".






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Thank you for your answer
    – JustDroppedIn
    11 hours ago


















up vote
1
down vote













Your arguments are all correct and You have to assume $Aoplus B$ really means the orthogonal sum. If it is not orthogonal by construction as in Frederiks answer and You take the definition $Aoplus B={a+b:ain A,bin B}$ where $Acap B={0}$ then You get simple counterexamples like the finite-dimensional $X=mathbb{R}^2=langlebegin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}rangleopluslanglebegin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ and $T(begin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix})=begin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}$ and $T(begin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix})=-begin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}$. Then $T$ is a bounded operator that fulfills $T_{|A}=Id_A$ for $A=langlebegin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ and $T_{|B}=-Id_B$ for $B=langlebegin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ but is not self-adjoint, what You proved and can check by finding its matrix to an orthogonal basis (e.g. to the standard basis, this yields $begin{pmatrix}1&0\2&-1end{pmatrix}$)






share|cite|improve this answer























  • That is a nice counterexample to hopefully further clear up OP's misconception!
    – Frederik vom Ende
    Nov 17 at 13:20










  • Thanks! Hopefully it is not even confusing, $langle .,.rangle _2neq langle .,. rangle _{Aoplus B}$ if $Anotperp B$ with respect to $langle .,.rangle _2$.
    – Peter Melech
    Nov 17 at 13:49








  • 1




    @PeterMelech Thank you,the counter-examples were helpful indeed.
    – JustDroppedIn
    11 hours ago













Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














 

draft saved


draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3001410%2fproving-that-t-is-self-adjoint-or-that-a-b-are-vertical-to-each-other%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
2
down vote



accepted










Your problem in understanding here might be that "verticality" of $A$ and $B$ are due to the definition of the direct sum of Hilbert spaces.



For arbitrary Hilbert spaces $(A,langlecdot,cdotrangle_A)$, $(B,langlecdot,cdotrangle_B)$, one defines the direct sum as ordered pairs of the form
$$
Aoplus B=lbrace (a,b),|,ain A,bin Brbrace
$$

which turns into a vector space with componentwise addition and scalar multiplication. Then $Aoplus B$ becomes a Hilbert space under the scalar product
$$
biglangle (a_1,b_1),(a_2,b_2)bigrangle_{Aoplus B}:=langle a_1,a_2rangle_A+langle b_1,b_2rangle_B,.tag{1}
$$

Now it is customary to write these elements of not as ordered pairs $(a,b)$, but as a sum $a+b$ (by identifying $A$ with $Atimeslbrace 0rbracesubset Aotimes B$ and same with $B$). With this identification, every $xin Aoplus B$ can be uniquely expressed as $x=a+b$ for some $ain A$, $bin B$. So in some sense it is by definition that
$$
langle x,Tyrangle=biglangle a_1+b_1,(operatorname{Id}_Aa_2-operatorname{Id}_Bb_2)bigrangle=langle a_1+b_1,a_2-b_2rangleoverset{(1)}=langle a_1,a_2rangle-langle b_1,b_2rangle=ldots= langle Tx,yrangle,,
$$

because $Aoplus B$ by definition (1) / construction / assumption are "orthogonal".






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Thank you for your answer
    – JustDroppedIn
    11 hours ago















up vote
2
down vote



accepted










Your problem in understanding here might be that "verticality" of $A$ and $B$ are due to the definition of the direct sum of Hilbert spaces.



For arbitrary Hilbert spaces $(A,langlecdot,cdotrangle_A)$, $(B,langlecdot,cdotrangle_B)$, one defines the direct sum as ordered pairs of the form
$$
Aoplus B=lbrace (a,b),|,ain A,bin Brbrace
$$

which turns into a vector space with componentwise addition and scalar multiplication. Then $Aoplus B$ becomes a Hilbert space under the scalar product
$$
biglangle (a_1,b_1),(a_2,b_2)bigrangle_{Aoplus B}:=langle a_1,a_2rangle_A+langle b_1,b_2rangle_B,.tag{1}
$$

Now it is customary to write these elements of not as ordered pairs $(a,b)$, but as a sum $a+b$ (by identifying $A$ with $Atimeslbrace 0rbracesubset Aotimes B$ and same with $B$). With this identification, every $xin Aoplus B$ can be uniquely expressed as $x=a+b$ for some $ain A$, $bin B$. So in some sense it is by definition that
$$
langle x,Tyrangle=biglangle a_1+b_1,(operatorname{Id}_Aa_2-operatorname{Id}_Bb_2)bigrangle=langle a_1+b_1,a_2-b_2rangleoverset{(1)}=langle a_1,a_2rangle-langle b_1,b_2rangle=ldots= langle Tx,yrangle,,
$$

because $Aoplus B$ by definition (1) / construction / assumption are "orthogonal".






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Thank you for your answer
    – JustDroppedIn
    11 hours ago













up vote
2
down vote



accepted







up vote
2
down vote



accepted






Your problem in understanding here might be that "verticality" of $A$ and $B$ are due to the definition of the direct sum of Hilbert spaces.



For arbitrary Hilbert spaces $(A,langlecdot,cdotrangle_A)$, $(B,langlecdot,cdotrangle_B)$, one defines the direct sum as ordered pairs of the form
$$
Aoplus B=lbrace (a,b),|,ain A,bin Brbrace
$$

which turns into a vector space with componentwise addition and scalar multiplication. Then $Aoplus B$ becomes a Hilbert space under the scalar product
$$
biglangle (a_1,b_1),(a_2,b_2)bigrangle_{Aoplus B}:=langle a_1,a_2rangle_A+langle b_1,b_2rangle_B,.tag{1}
$$

Now it is customary to write these elements of not as ordered pairs $(a,b)$, but as a sum $a+b$ (by identifying $A$ with $Atimeslbrace 0rbracesubset Aotimes B$ and same with $B$). With this identification, every $xin Aoplus B$ can be uniquely expressed as $x=a+b$ for some $ain A$, $bin B$. So in some sense it is by definition that
$$
langle x,Tyrangle=biglangle a_1+b_1,(operatorname{Id}_Aa_2-operatorname{Id}_Bb_2)bigrangle=langle a_1+b_1,a_2-b_2rangleoverset{(1)}=langle a_1,a_2rangle-langle b_1,b_2rangle=ldots= langle Tx,yrangle,,
$$

because $Aoplus B$ by definition (1) / construction / assumption are "orthogonal".






share|cite|improve this answer














Your problem in understanding here might be that "verticality" of $A$ and $B$ are due to the definition of the direct sum of Hilbert spaces.



For arbitrary Hilbert spaces $(A,langlecdot,cdotrangle_A)$, $(B,langlecdot,cdotrangle_B)$, one defines the direct sum as ordered pairs of the form
$$
Aoplus B=lbrace (a,b),|,ain A,bin Brbrace
$$

which turns into a vector space with componentwise addition and scalar multiplication. Then $Aoplus B$ becomes a Hilbert space under the scalar product
$$
biglangle (a_1,b_1),(a_2,b_2)bigrangle_{Aoplus B}:=langle a_1,a_2rangle_A+langle b_1,b_2rangle_B,.tag{1}
$$

Now it is customary to write these elements of not as ordered pairs $(a,b)$, but as a sum $a+b$ (by identifying $A$ with $Atimeslbrace 0rbracesubset Aotimes B$ and same with $B$). With this identification, every $xin Aoplus B$ can be uniquely expressed as $x=a+b$ for some $ain A$, $bin B$. So in some sense it is by definition that
$$
langle x,Tyrangle=biglangle a_1+b_1,(operatorname{Id}_Aa_2-operatorname{Id}_Bb_2)bigrangle=langle a_1+b_1,a_2-b_2rangleoverset{(1)}=langle a_1,a_2rangle-langle b_1,b_2rangle=ldots= langle Tx,yrangle,,
$$

because $Aoplus B$ by definition (1) / construction / assumption are "orthogonal".







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Nov 17 at 13:32

























answered Nov 17 at 13:02









Frederik vom Ende

5621321




5621321








  • 1




    Thank you for your answer
    – JustDroppedIn
    11 hours ago














  • 1




    Thank you for your answer
    – JustDroppedIn
    11 hours ago








1




1




Thank you for your answer
– JustDroppedIn
11 hours ago




Thank you for your answer
– JustDroppedIn
11 hours ago










up vote
1
down vote













Your arguments are all correct and You have to assume $Aoplus B$ really means the orthogonal sum. If it is not orthogonal by construction as in Frederiks answer and You take the definition $Aoplus B={a+b:ain A,bin B}$ where $Acap B={0}$ then You get simple counterexamples like the finite-dimensional $X=mathbb{R}^2=langlebegin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}rangleopluslanglebegin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ and $T(begin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix})=begin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}$ and $T(begin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix})=-begin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}$. Then $T$ is a bounded operator that fulfills $T_{|A}=Id_A$ for $A=langlebegin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ and $T_{|B}=-Id_B$ for $B=langlebegin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ but is not self-adjoint, what You proved and can check by finding its matrix to an orthogonal basis (e.g. to the standard basis, this yields $begin{pmatrix}1&0\2&-1end{pmatrix}$)






share|cite|improve this answer























  • That is a nice counterexample to hopefully further clear up OP's misconception!
    – Frederik vom Ende
    Nov 17 at 13:20










  • Thanks! Hopefully it is not even confusing, $langle .,.rangle _2neq langle .,. rangle _{Aoplus B}$ if $Anotperp B$ with respect to $langle .,.rangle _2$.
    – Peter Melech
    Nov 17 at 13:49








  • 1




    @PeterMelech Thank you,the counter-examples were helpful indeed.
    – JustDroppedIn
    11 hours ago

















up vote
1
down vote













Your arguments are all correct and You have to assume $Aoplus B$ really means the orthogonal sum. If it is not orthogonal by construction as in Frederiks answer and You take the definition $Aoplus B={a+b:ain A,bin B}$ where $Acap B={0}$ then You get simple counterexamples like the finite-dimensional $X=mathbb{R}^2=langlebegin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}rangleopluslanglebegin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ and $T(begin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix})=begin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}$ and $T(begin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix})=-begin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}$. Then $T$ is a bounded operator that fulfills $T_{|A}=Id_A$ for $A=langlebegin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ and $T_{|B}=-Id_B$ for $B=langlebegin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ but is not self-adjoint, what You proved and can check by finding its matrix to an orthogonal basis (e.g. to the standard basis, this yields $begin{pmatrix}1&0\2&-1end{pmatrix}$)






share|cite|improve this answer























  • That is a nice counterexample to hopefully further clear up OP's misconception!
    – Frederik vom Ende
    Nov 17 at 13:20










  • Thanks! Hopefully it is not even confusing, $langle .,.rangle _2neq langle .,. rangle _{Aoplus B}$ if $Anotperp B$ with respect to $langle .,.rangle _2$.
    – Peter Melech
    Nov 17 at 13:49








  • 1




    @PeterMelech Thank you,the counter-examples were helpful indeed.
    – JustDroppedIn
    11 hours ago















up vote
1
down vote










up vote
1
down vote









Your arguments are all correct and You have to assume $Aoplus B$ really means the orthogonal sum. If it is not orthogonal by construction as in Frederiks answer and You take the definition $Aoplus B={a+b:ain A,bin B}$ where $Acap B={0}$ then You get simple counterexamples like the finite-dimensional $X=mathbb{R}^2=langlebegin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}rangleopluslanglebegin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ and $T(begin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix})=begin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}$ and $T(begin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix})=-begin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}$. Then $T$ is a bounded operator that fulfills $T_{|A}=Id_A$ for $A=langlebegin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ and $T_{|B}=-Id_B$ for $B=langlebegin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ but is not self-adjoint, what You proved and can check by finding its matrix to an orthogonal basis (e.g. to the standard basis, this yields $begin{pmatrix}1&0\2&-1end{pmatrix}$)






share|cite|improve this answer














Your arguments are all correct and You have to assume $Aoplus B$ really means the orthogonal sum. If it is not orthogonal by construction as in Frederiks answer and You take the definition $Aoplus B={a+b:ain A,bin B}$ where $Acap B={0}$ then You get simple counterexamples like the finite-dimensional $X=mathbb{R}^2=langlebegin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}rangleopluslanglebegin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ and $T(begin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix})=begin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}$ and $T(begin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix})=-begin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}$. Then $T$ is a bounded operator that fulfills $T_{|A}=Id_A$ for $A=langlebegin{pmatrix}1\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ and $T_{|B}=-Id_B$ for $B=langlebegin{pmatrix}0\1end{pmatrix}rangle$ but is not self-adjoint, what You proved and can check by finding its matrix to an orthogonal basis (e.g. to the standard basis, this yields $begin{pmatrix}1&0\2&-1end{pmatrix}$)







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Nov 17 at 13:27

























answered Nov 17 at 13:11









Peter Melech

2,464813




2,464813












  • That is a nice counterexample to hopefully further clear up OP's misconception!
    – Frederik vom Ende
    Nov 17 at 13:20










  • Thanks! Hopefully it is not even confusing, $langle .,.rangle _2neq langle .,. rangle _{Aoplus B}$ if $Anotperp B$ with respect to $langle .,.rangle _2$.
    – Peter Melech
    Nov 17 at 13:49








  • 1




    @PeterMelech Thank you,the counter-examples were helpful indeed.
    – JustDroppedIn
    11 hours ago




















  • That is a nice counterexample to hopefully further clear up OP's misconception!
    – Frederik vom Ende
    Nov 17 at 13:20










  • Thanks! Hopefully it is not even confusing, $langle .,.rangle _2neq langle .,. rangle _{Aoplus B}$ if $Anotperp B$ with respect to $langle .,.rangle _2$.
    – Peter Melech
    Nov 17 at 13:49








  • 1




    @PeterMelech Thank you,the counter-examples were helpful indeed.
    – JustDroppedIn
    11 hours ago


















That is a nice counterexample to hopefully further clear up OP's misconception!
– Frederik vom Ende
Nov 17 at 13:20




That is a nice counterexample to hopefully further clear up OP's misconception!
– Frederik vom Ende
Nov 17 at 13:20












Thanks! Hopefully it is not even confusing, $langle .,.rangle _2neq langle .,. rangle _{Aoplus B}$ if $Anotperp B$ with respect to $langle .,.rangle _2$.
– Peter Melech
Nov 17 at 13:49






Thanks! Hopefully it is not even confusing, $langle .,.rangle _2neq langle .,. rangle _{Aoplus B}$ if $Anotperp B$ with respect to $langle .,.rangle _2$.
– Peter Melech
Nov 17 at 13:49






1




1




@PeterMelech Thank you,the counter-examples were helpful indeed.
– JustDroppedIn
11 hours ago






@PeterMelech Thank you,the counter-examples were helpful indeed.
– JustDroppedIn
11 hours ago




















 

draft saved


draft discarded



















































 


draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3001410%2fproving-that-t-is-self-adjoint-or-that-a-b-are-vertical-to-each-other%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Bundesstraße 106

Verónica Boquete

Ida-Boy-Ed-Garten