Can “illa” be used to mean “there?”












7
















Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.




Does stetit illa refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is illa capable of carrying that meaning?



This passage is from Wheelock's Latin.






latin-to-english-translation wheelocks-latin







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  • hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.

    – Hugh
    Nov 30 '18 at 7:03


















7
















Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.




Does stetit illa refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is illa capable of carrying that meaning?



This passage is from Wheelock's Latin.






latin-to-english-translation wheelocks-latin







share|improve this question

























  • hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.

    – Hugh
    Nov 30 '18 at 7:03
















7












7








7


1







Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.




Does stetit illa refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is illa capable of carrying that meaning?



This passage is from Wheelock's Latin.






latin-to-english-translation wheelocks-latin







share|improve this question

















Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.




Does stetit illa refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is illa capable of carrying that meaning?



This passage is from Wheelock's Latin.






latin-to-english-translation wheelocks-latin




latin-to-english-translation wheelocks-latin






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edited Dec 12 '18 at 7:44









Joonas Ilmavirta♦

45.9k1058263




45.9k1058263










asked Nov 30 '18 at 5:57









NickimiteNickimite

383




383













  • hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.

    – Hugh
    Nov 30 '18 at 7:03





















  • hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.

    – Hugh
    Nov 30 '18 at 7:03



















hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.

– Hugh
Nov 30 '18 at 7:03







hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.

– Hugh
Nov 30 '18 at 7:03












4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















6














According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.



With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.






share|improve this answer
























  • Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.

    – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
    Nov 30 '18 at 10:31











  • @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?

    – cnread
    Nov 30 '18 at 17:51



















4














illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".



stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"



Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:



stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"






share|improve this answer































    3














    I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.



    Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;



    '...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'






    share|improve this answer































      3














      I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."



      Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".






      share|improve this answer























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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        6














        According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.



        With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.






        share|improve this answer
























        • Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          Nov 30 '18 at 10:31











        • @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?

          – cnread
          Nov 30 '18 at 17:51
















        6














        According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.



        With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.






        share|improve this answer
























        • Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          Nov 30 '18 at 10:31











        • @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?

          – cnread
          Nov 30 '18 at 17:51














        6












        6








        6







        According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.



        With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.






        share|improve this answer













        According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.



        With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Nov 30 '18 at 9:59









        cnreadcnread

        8,67711124




        8,67711124













        • Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          Nov 30 '18 at 10:31











        • @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?

          – cnread
          Nov 30 '18 at 17:51



















        • Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          Nov 30 '18 at 10:31











        • @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?

          – cnread
          Nov 30 '18 at 17:51

















        Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.

        – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
        Nov 30 '18 at 10:31





        Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.

        – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
        Nov 30 '18 at 10:31













        @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?

        – cnread
        Nov 30 '18 at 17:51





        @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?

        – cnread
        Nov 30 '18 at 17:51











        4














        illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".



        stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"



        Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:



        stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"






        share|improve this answer




























          4














          illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".



          stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"



          Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:



          stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"






          share|improve this answer


























            4












            4








            4







            illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".



            stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"



            Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:



            stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"






            share|improve this answer













            illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".



            stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"



            Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:



            stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Nov 30 '18 at 14:28









            J. FosterJ. Foster

            1412




            1412























                3














                I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.



                Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;



                '...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'






                share|improve this answer




























                  3














                  I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.



                  Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;



                  '...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'






                  share|improve this answer


























                    3












                    3








                    3







                    I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.



                    Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;



                    '...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'






                    share|improve this answer













                    I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.



                    Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;



                    '...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Nov 30 '18 at 7:46









                    HughHugh

                    5,1152616




                    5,1152616























                        3














                        I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."



                        Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".






                        share|improve this answer




























                          3














                          I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."



                          Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".






                          share|improve this answer


























                            3












                            3








                            3







                            I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."



                            Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".






                            share|improve this answer













                            I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."



                            Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered Dec 1 '18 at 4:15









                            Cassius12Cassius12

                            1485




                            1485






























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