Two sets such that $sup(A) = inf(B)$, there are elements within a distance of $epsilon$












1















Given two bounded, nonempty sets $A$ and $B$, such that $sup(A) = inf(B)$.



$(a)$ Show that $A cap B$ contains at most $1$ element.




Suppose that two distinct $a, b in A cap B $, we then have:
$$ a leq sup(A) = inf(B)$$
since $a in A$, and also since $b in B$ we can say that that:
$$ a leq sup(A) = inf(B) leq b rightarrow a leq b$$



We now make the same statement, but reverse the roles of $a$ and $b$, since $b in A$, and also since $a in B$
$$ b leq sup(A) = inf(B) leq a rightarrow b leq a$$
We conclude that $a=b$. $square$



I think this proof is fine so far.




(b) Show that:



$$ forall epsilon >0: space{ } exists a in A, b in B: space |a-b|< epsilon $$




I think the point is to use the first exercise,



1 element so suppose we have $c in A cap B$ then also $c in A,B$ , we then have that $|c-c|=0<epsilon$



No elements For the second case we would need to prove that whenever $A cap B = emptyset$, we can still find such an $a$ and $b$. Maybe we could somehow use the fact about the supremum and infimum, but I am not sure how to use this. We know that $a leq sup(A)=inf(B) leq b$, this just tells us how they are ordered.










share|cite|improve this question



























    1















    Given two bounded, nonempty sets $A$ and $B$, such that $sup(A) = inf(B)$.



    $(a)$ Show that $A cap B$ contains at most $1$ element.




    Suppose that two distinct $a, b in A cap B $, we then have:
    $$ a leq sup(A) = inf(B)$$
    since $a in A$, and also since $b in B$ we can say that that:
    $$ a leq sup(A) = inf(B) leq b rightarrow a leq b$$



    We now make the same statement, but reverse the roles of $a$ and $b$, since $b in A$, and also since $a in B$
    $$ b leq sup(A) = inf(B) leq a rightarrow b leq a$$
    We conclude that $a=b$. $square$



    I think this proof is fine so far.




    (b) Show that:



    $$ forall epsilon >0: space{ } exists a in A, b in B: space |a-b|< epsilon $$




    I think the point is to use the first exercise,



    1 element so suppose we have $c in A cap B$ then also $c in A,B$ , we then have that $|c-c|=0<epsilon$



    No elements For the second case we would need to prove that whenever $A cap B = emptyset$, we can still find such an $a$ and $b$. Maybe we could somehow use the fact about the supremum and infimum, but I am not sure how to use this. We know that $a leq sup(A)=inf(B) leq b$, this just tells us how they are ordered.










    share|cite|improve this question

























      1












      1








      1








      Given two bounded, nonempty sets $A$ and $B$, such that $sup(A) = inf(B)$.



      $(a)$ Show that $A cap B$ contains at most $1$ element.




      Suppose that two distinct $a, b in A cap B $, we then have:
      $$ a leq sup(A) = inf(B)$$
      since $a in A$, and also since $b in B$ we can say that that:
      $$ a leq sup(A) = inf(B) leq b rightarrow a leq b$$



      We now make the same statement, but reverse the roles of $a$ and $b$, since $b in A$, and also since $a in B$
      $$ b leq sup(A) = inf(B) leq a rightarrow b leq a$$
      We conclude that $a=b$. $square$



      I think this proof is fine so far.




      (b) Show that:



      $$ forall epsilon >0: space{ } exists a in A, b in B: space |a-b|< epsilon $$




      I think the point is to use the first exercise,



      1 element so suppose we have $c in A cap B$ then also $c in A,B$ , we then have that $|c-c|=0<epsilon$



      No elements For the second case we would need to prove that whenever $A cap B = emptyset$, we can still find such an $a$ and $b$. Maybe we could somehow use the fact about the supremum and infimum, but I am not sure how to use this. We know that $a leq sup(A)=inf(B) leq b$, this just tells us how they are ordered.










      share|cite|improve this question














      Given two bounded, nonempty sets $A$ and $B$, such that $sup(A) = inf(B)$.



      $(a)$ Show that $A cap B$ contains at most $1$ element.




      Suppose that two distinct $a, b in A cap B $, we then have:
      $$ a leq sup(A) = inf(B)$$
      since $a in A$, and also since $b in B$ we can say that that:
      $$ a leq sup(A) = inf(B) leq b rightarrow a leq b$$



      We now make the same statement, but reverse the roles of $a$ and $b$, since $b in A$, and also since $a in B$
      $$ b leq sup(A) = inf(B) leq a rightarrow b leq a$$
      We conclude that $a=b$. $square$



      I think this proof is fine so far.




      (b) Show that:



      $$ forall epsilon >0: space{ } exists a in A, b in B: space |a-b|< epsilon $$




      I think the point is to use the first exercise,



      1 element so suppose we have $c in A cap B$ then also $c in A,B$ , we then have that $|c-c|=0<epsilon$



      No elements For the second case we would need to prove that whenever $A cap B = emptyset$, we can still find such an $a$ and $b$. Maybe we could somehow use the fact about the supremum and infimum, but I am not sure how to use this. We know that $a leq sup(A)=inf(B) leq b$, this just tells us how they are ordered.







      real-analysis






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      asked Nov 29 '18 at 20:26









      Wesley StrikWesley Strik

      1,623423




      1,623423






















          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1














          I think it's unnecessarily complicated to use the first question. It could be useful to use the following property of $c=sup(A)$. For every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $ain A$ such that
          $$c-varepsilon<a$$
          (otherwise $c$ wouldn't be the lowest upper bound!). Similarly if $d=inf(B)$ then for every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $bin B$ such that
          $$b<d+varepsilon$$
          Can you finish it from there?






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • of course! very nice suggestion.
            – Wesley Strik
            Nov 29 '18 at 21:22










          • I formulated my answer below, for anyone interested.
            – Wesley Strik
            Nov 29 '18 at 21:37



















          1














          You can use the first statement if you wish. So you have two cases.



          Case 1 A$cap$B = {a} You'll want to show that a = inf A = sup B. Then you can prove your claim using definitions.



          Case 2 A$cap$ B = $emptyset$ For elements to be within distance $epsilon$ of each other, you can show they are distance $frac{epsilon}{2}$ away from s = inf A = sup B. This can also be done with definitions of sup and inf.



          What @Olivier Moschetta has written is also correct. You'll notice you'll use the same arguments in both cases.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks for answering my question and showing me it can be done both ways.
            – Wesley Strik
            Nov 29 '18 at 21:23



















          0














          I don't think the first statement is necessary for the second.



          But the definition (one way or another) of $sup A$ is that if $w < sup A$ then $w$ is not upper bound. So if $w < sup A$ there exists an $ain A$ so that $w < a le sup A$.



          Likewise if $v > inf B$ then $v$ is not a lower bound of $B$ and so there is a $b in B$ so so that $inf B le b < v$.



          If we let $w = sup A - frac 12epsilon$ and $v = inf B + frac 12 epsilon $ we get that there are elements $a,b$ so that:



          $w = sup A - frac 12epsilon < a le sup A = sup B le b < sup B + frac 12 epsilon$.



          And so $|b-a| = b- a < (inf B + frac 12 epsilon) - (sup - frac 12epsilon = epsilon$.



          Now it could be that $a = b = sup A=inf B$. Or it might not. If $Acap B = {z}$ where $z = inf B=sup A$ that's a perfectly good example that works. But it need not be the only. If $Acap B =emptyset$ then we know that there is another example. But none of this is necessary






          share|cite|improve this answer





























            0














            Let $c=sup(A)$ and $d=inf(B)$



            For every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $ain A$ such that
            $$c-frac{varepsilon}{2}<a rightarrow c-a <frac{varepsilon}{2} $$
            Similarly, for every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $bin B$ such that
            $$b<d+ frac{varepsilon}{2} rightarrow b-d < frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
            Also notice that $c=d$, so we have that
            $$b-c < frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
            Great, now notice that by the triangle inequality:



            $$ |a-b|=|a-c + c-b| leq |a-c| + |c-b|=|c-a|+|b-c|<frac{varepsilon}{2} + frac{varepsilon}{2} = varepsilon $$
            Booya!






            share|cite|improve this answer





















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              4 Answers
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              4 Answers
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              active

              oldest

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              active

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              active

              oldest

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              1














              I think it's unnecessarily complicated to use the first question. It could be useful to use the following property of $c=sup(A)$. For every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $ain A$ such that
              $$c-varepsilon<a$$
              (otherwise $c$ wouldn't be the lowest upper bound!). Similarly if $d=inf(B)$ then for every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $bin B$ such that
              $$b<d+varepsilon$$
              Can you finish it from there?






              share|cite|improve this answer





















              • of course! very nice suggestion.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:22










              • I formulated my answer below, for anyone interested.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:37
















              1














              I think it's unnecessarily complicated to use the first question. It could be useful to use the following property of $c=sup(A)$. For every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $ain A$ such that
              $$c-varepsilon<a$$
              (otherwise $c$ wouldn't be the lowest upper bound!). Similarly if $d=inf(B)$ then for every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $bin B$ such that
              $$b<d+varepsilon$$
              Can you finish it from there?






              share|cite|improve this answer





















              • of course! very nice suggestion.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:22










              • I formulated my answer below, for anyone interested.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:37














              1












              1








              1






              I think it's unnecessarily complicated to use the first question. It could be useful to use the following property of $c=sup(A)$. For every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $ain A$ such that
              $$c-varepsilon<a$$
              (otherwise $c$ wouldn't be the lowest upper bound!). Similarly if $d=inf(B)$ then for every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $bin B$ such that
              $$b<d+varepsilon$$
              Can you finish it from there?






              share|cite|improve this answer












              I think it's unnecessarily complicated to use the first question. It could be useful to use the following property of $c=sup(A)$. For every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $ain A$ such that
              $$c-varepsilon<a$$
              (otherwise $c$ wouldn't be the lowest upper bound!). Similarly if $d=inf(B)$ then for every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $bin B$ such that
              $$b<d+varepsilon$$
              Can you finish it from there?







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Nov 29 '18 at 20:34









              Olivier MoschettaOlivier Moschetta

              2,8111411




              2,8111411












              • of course! very nice suggestion.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:22










              • I formulated my answer below, for anyone interested.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:37


















              • of course! very nice suggestion.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:22










              • I formulated my answer below, for anyone interested.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:37
















              of course! very nice suggestion.
              – Wesley Strik
              Nov 29 '18 at 21:22




              of course! very nice suggestion.
              – Wesley Strik
              Nov 29 '18 at 21:22












              I formulated my answer below, for anyone interested.
              – Wesley Strik
              Nov 29 '18 at 21:37




              I formulated my answer below, for anyone interested.
              – Wesley Strik
              Nov 29 '18 at 21:37











              1














              You can use the first statement if you wish. So you have two cases.



              Case 1 A$cap$B = {a} You'll want to show that a = inf A = sup B. Then you can prove your claim using definitions.



              Case 2 A$cap$ B = $emptyset$ For elements to be within distance $epsilon$ of each other, you can show they are distance $frac{epsilon}{2}$ away from s = inf A = sup B. This can also be done with definitions of sup and inf.



              What @Olivier Moschetta has written is also correct. You'll notice you'll use the same arguments in both cases.






              share|cite|improve this answer





















              • Thanks for answering my question and showing me it can be done both ways.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:23
















              1














              You can use the first statement if you wish. So you have two cases.



              Case 1 A$cap$B = {a} You'll want to show that a = inf A = sup B. Then you can prove your claim using definitions.



              Case 2 A$cap$ B = $emptyset$ For elements to be within distance $epsilon$ of each other, you can show they are distance $frac{epsilon}{2}$ away from s = inf A = sup B. This can also be done with definitions of sup and inf.



              What @Olivier Moschetta has written is also correct. You'll notice you'll use the same arguments in both cases.






              share|cite|improve this answer





















              • Thanks for answering my question and showing me it can be done both ways.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:23














              1












              1








              1






              You can use the first statement if you wish. So you have two cases.



              Case 1 A$cap$B = {a} You'll want to show that a = inf A = sup B. Then you can prove your claim using definitions.



              Case 2 A$cap$ B = $emptyset$ For elements to be within distance $epsilon$ of each other, you can show they are distance $frac{epsilon}{2}$ away from s = inf A = sup B. This can also be done with definitions of sup and inf.



              What @Olivier Moschetta has written is also correct. You'll notice you'll use the same arguments in both cases.






              share|cite|improve this answer












              You can use the first statement if you wish. So you have two cases.



              Case 1 A$cap$B = {a} You'll want to show that a = inf A = sup B. Then you can prove your claim using definitions.



              Case 2 A$cap$ B = $emptyset$ For elements to be within distance $epsilon$ of each other, you can show they are distance $frac{epsilon}{2}$ away from s = inf A = sup B. This can also be done with definitions of sup and inf.



              What @Olivier Moschetta has written is also correct. You'll notice you'll use the same arguments in both cases.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Nov 29 '18 at 20:59









              Joel PereiraJoel Pereira

              68819




              68819












              • Thanks for answering my question and showing me it can be done both ways.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:23


















              • Thanks for answering my question and showing me it can be done both ways.
                – Wesley Strik
                Nov 29 '18 at 21:23
















              Thanks for answering my question and showing me it can be done both ways.
              – Wesley Strik
              Nov 29 '18 at 21:23




              Thanks for answering my question and showing me it can be done both ways.
              – Wesley Strik
              Nov 29 '18 at 21:23











              0














              I don't think the first statement is necessary for the second.



              But the definition (one way or another) of $sup A$ is that if $w < sup A$ then $w$ is not upper bound. So if $w < sup A$ there exists an $ain A$ so that $w < a le sup A$.



              Likewise if $v > inf B$ then $v$ is not a lower bound of $B$ and so there is a $b in B$ so so that $inf B le b < v$.



              If we let $w = sup A - frac 12epsilon$ and $v = inf B + frac 12 epsilon $ we get that there are elements $a,b$ so that:



              $w = sup A - frac 12epsilon < a le sup A = sup B le b < sup B + frac 12 epsilon$.



              And so $|b-a| = b- a < (inf B + frac 12 epsilon) - (sup - frac 12epsilon = epsilon$.



              Now it could be that $a = b = sup A=inf B$. Or it might not. If $Acap B = {z}$ where $z = inf B=sup A$ that's a perfectly good example that works. But it need not be the only. If $Acap B =emptyset$ then we know that there is another example. But none of this is necessary






              share|cite|improve this answer


























                0














                I don't think the first statement is necessary for the second.



                But the definition (one way or another) of $sup A$ is that if $w < sup A$ then $w$ is not upper bound. So if $w < sup A$ there exists an $ain A$ so that $w < a le sup A$.



                Likewise if $v > inf B$ then $v$ is not a lower bound of $B$ and so there is a $b in B$ so so that $inf B le b < v$.



                If we let $w = sup A - frac 12epsilon$ and $v = inf B + frac 12 epsilon $ we get that there are elements $a,b$ so that:



                $w = sup A - frac 12epsilon < a le sup A = sup B le b < sup B + frac 12 epsilon$.



                And so $|b-a| = b- a < (inf B + frac 12 epsilon) - (sup - frac 12epsilon = epsilon$.



                Now it could be that $a = b = sup A=inf B$. Or it might not. If $Acap B = {z}$ where $z = inf B=sup A$ that's a perfectly good example that works. But it need not be the only. If $Acap B =emptyset$ then we know that there is another example. But none of this is necessary






                share|cite|improve this answer
























                  0












                  0








                  0






                  I don't think the first statement is necessary for the second.



                  But the definition (one way or another) of $sup A$ is that if $w < sup A$ then $w$ is not upper bound. So if $w < sup A$ there exists an $ain A$ so that $w < a le sup A$.



                  Likewise if $v > inf B$ then $v$ is not a lower bound of $B$ and so there is a $b in B$ so so that $inf B le b < v$.



                  If we let $w = sup A - frac 12epsilon$ and $v = inf B + frac 12 epsilon $ we get that there are elements $a,b$ so that:



                  $w = sup A - frac 12epsilon < a le sup A = sup B le b < sup B + frac 12 epsilon$.



                  And so $|b-a| = b- a < (inf B + frac 12 epsilon) - (sup - frac 12epsilon = epsilon$.



                  Now it could be that $a = b = sup A=inf B$. Or it might not. If $Acap B = {z}$ where $z = inf B=sup A$ that's a perfectly good example that works. But it need not be the only. If $Acap B =emptyset$ then we know that there is another example. But none of this is necessary






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  I don't think the first statement is necessary for the second.



                  But the definition (one way or another) of $sup A$ is that if $w < sup A$ then $w$ is not upper bound. So if $w < sup A$ there exists an $ain A$ so that $w < a le sup A$.



                  Likewise if $v > inf B$ then $v$ is not a lower bound of $B$ and so there is a $b in B$ so so that $inf B le b < v$.



                  If we let $w = sup A - frac 12epsilon$ and $v = inf B + frac 12 epsilon $ we get that there are elements $a,b$ so that:



                  $w = sup A - frac 12epsilon < a le sup A = sup B le b < sup B + frac 12 epsilon$.



                  And so $|b-a| = b- a < (inf B + frac 12 epsilon) - (sup - frac 12epsilon = epsilon$.



                  Now it could be that $a = b = sup A=inf B$. Or it might not. If $Acap B = {z}$ where $z = inf B=sup A$ that's a perfectly good example that works. But it need not be the only. If $Acap B =emptyset$ then we know that there is another example. But none of this is necessary







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Nov 29 '18 at 21:33









                  fleabloodfleablood

                  68.7k22685




                  68.7k22685























                      0














                      Let $c=sup(A)$ and $d=inf(B)$



                      For every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $ain A$ such that
                      $$c-frac{varepsilon}{2}<a rightarrow c-a <frac{varepsilon}{2} $$
                      Similarly, for every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $bin B$ such that
                      $$b<d+ frac{varepsilon}{2} rightarrow b-d < frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
                      Also notice that $c=d$, so we have that
                      $$b-c < frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
                      Great, now notice that by the triangle inequality:



                      $$ |a-b|=|a-c + c-b| leq |a-c| + |c-b|=|c-a|+|b-c|<frac{varepsilon}{2} + frac{varepsilon}{2} = varepsilon $$
                      Booya!






                      share|cite|improve this answer


























                        0














                        Let $c=sup(A)$ and $d=inf(B)$



                        For every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $ain A$ such that
                        $$c-frac{varepsilon}{2}<a rightarrow c-a <frac{varepsilon}{2} $$
                        Similarly, for every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $bin B$ such that
                        $$b<d+ frac{varepsilon}{2} rightarrow b-d < frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
                        Also notice that $c=d$, so we have that
                        $$b-c < frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
                        Great, now notice that by the triangle inequality:



                        $$ |a-b|=|a-c + c-b| leq |a-c| + |c-b|=|c-a|+|b-c|<frac{varepsilon}{2} + frac{varepsilon}{2} = varepsilon $$
                        Booya!






                        share|cite|improve this answer
























                          0












                          0








                          0






                          Let $c=sup(A)$ and $d=inf(B)$



                          For every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $ain A$ such that
                          $$c-frac{varepsilon}{2}<a rightarrow c-a <frac{varepsilon}{2} $$
                          Similarly, for every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $bin B$ such that
                          $$b<d+ frac{varepsilon}{2} rightarrow b-d < frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
                          Also notice that $c=d$, so we have that
                          $$b-c < frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
                          Great, now notice that by the triangle inequality:



                          $$ |a-b|=|a-c + c-b| leq |a-c| + |c-b|=|c-a|+|b-c|<frac{varepsilon}{2} + frac{varepsilon}{2} = varepsilon $$
                          Booya!






                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          Let $c=sup(A)$ and $d=inf(B)$



                          For every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $ain A$ such that
                          $$c-frac{varepsilon}{2}<a rightarrow c-a <frac{varepsilon}{2} $$
                          Similarly, for every $varepsilon>0$ there exists $bin B$ such that
                          $$b<d+ frac{varepsilon}{2} rightarrow b-d < frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
                          Also notice that $c=d$, so we have that
                          $$b-c < frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
                          Great, now notice that by the triangle inequality:



                          $$ |a-b|=|a-c + c-b| leq |a-c| + |c-b|=|c-a|+|b-c|<frac{varepsilon}{2} + frac{varepsilon}{2} = varepsilon $$
                          Booya!







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered Nov 29 '18 at 21:36









                          Wesley StrikWesley Strik

                          1,623423




                          1,623423






























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