$|Z(G) cap G'|$ is not divisible by p if $G$ has abelian p-Sylow subgroups
$begingroup$
In Exercise §11.12 of “Methods of Representation Theory” by Curtis and Reiner, the reader is asked to prove the statement given in the title. In other words: If $P$ is an abelian $p$-Sylow subgroup of a finite group $G$, and if $x in P cap Z(G)$ is any non-trivial element (of order $p$, say), we have to show there is a homomorphism $varphi colon G to A$ into some abelian group $A$ such that $varphi(x) neq 1$.
If the transfer homomorphism is known, this is an easy task. Indeed, the transfer homomorphism $varphi colon G to P$ satisfies $varphi(x) = x^{|G:P|} neq 1$. But this morphism is only introduced later in the book. I suspect the authors want the reader to construct a linear representation $varphi colon G to mathbb{C}^times$ instead.
Maybe a desired proof would start like this: Since $P$ is abelian, there is a linear character $lambda$ of $P$ such that $lambda(x) neq 1$. Then $chi = lambda^G$ is a character of $G$ of degree $chi(1) = |G : P|$ with $x notin operatorname{Ker}(chi)$. More precisely, we have $chi_{|langle x rangle} = |G:P| cdot lambda_{|langle x rangle}$ (since $x in Z(G)$). In particular, we have $x notin operatorname{Ker}(psi)$ for all irreducible constituents $psi$ of $chi$. So it suffices to show that $chi$ has at least one linear constituent.
Any ideas how to continue from here? Note that I have not used that $P$ is a Sylow group so far.
Added later: As Dietrich Burde's comment shows, I was actually quite close: Instead of looking for a constituent of $chi$, one only needs to consider the determinant $varphi = det chi$. This is a homomorphism $G to mathbb{C}^times$ satisfying $varphi(x) = lambda(x)^{|G:P|} neq 1$.
By essentially the same argument, we can also prove the more general statement: $P cap Z(G) cap G' leq P'$ for all (not necessarily abelian) Sylow subgroups $P leq G$.
abstract-algebra group-theory finite-groups representation-theory
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In Exercise §11.12 of “Methods of Representation Theory” by Curtis and Reiner, the reader is asked to prove the statement given in the title. In other words: If $P$ is an abelian $p$-Sylow subgroup of a finite group $G$, and if $x in P cap Z(G)$ is any non-trivial element (of order $p$, say), we have to show there is a homomorphism $varphi colon G to A$ into some abelian group $A$ such that $varphi(x) neq 1$.
If the transfer homomorphism is known, this is an easy task. Indeed, the transfer homomorphism $varphi colon G to P$ satisfies $varphi(x) = x^{|G:P|} neq 1$. But this morphism is only introduced later in the book. I suspect the authors want the reader to construct a linear representation $varphi colon G to mathbb{C}^times$ instead.
Maybe a desired proof would start like this: Since $P$ is abelian, there is a linear character $lambda$ of $P$ such that $lambda(x) neq 1$. Then $chi = lambda^G$ is a character of $G$ of degree $chi(1) = |G : P|$ with $x notin operatorname{Ker}(chi)$. More precisely, we have $chi_{|langle x rangle} = |G:P| cdot lambda_{|langle x rangle}$ (since $x in Z(G)$). In particular, we have $x notin operatorname{Ker}(psi)$ for all irreducible constituents $psi$ of $chi$. So it suffices to show that $chi$ has at least one linear constituent.
Any ideas how to continue from here? Note that I have not used that $P$ is a Sylow group so far.
Added later: As Dietrich Burde's comment shows, I was actually quite close: Instead of looking for a constituent of $chi$, one only needs to consider the determinant $varphi = det chi$. This is a homomorphism $G to mathbb{C}^times$ satisfying $varphi(x) = lambda(x)^{|G:P|} neq 1$.
By essentially the same argument, we can also prove the more general statement: $P cap Z(G) cap G' leq P'$ for all (not necessarily abelian) Sylow subgroups $P leq G$.
abstract-algebra group-theory finite-groups representation-theory
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The references here also give an argument for one (not all) $p$-Sylow group being abelian; see also Geoff Robinson's answer (can be proved also without using transfer).
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Dec 13 '18 at 19:48
$begingroup$
@DietrichBurde: This is perfect, thank you very much! Isaacs' answer shows that I actually was on the right track. I will also think about a transfer-free proof of Geoff Robinson's suggestion (the focal subgroup theorem uses transfer if I am not mistaken?).
$endgroup$
– Dune
Dec 13 '18 at 19:58
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In Exercise §11.12 of “Methods of Representation Theory” by Curtis and Reiner, the reader is asked to prove the statement given in the title. In other words: If $P$ is an abelian $p$-Sylow subgroup of a finite group $G$, and if $x in P cap Z(G)$ is any non-trivial element (of order $p$, say), we have to show there is a homomorphism $varphi colon G to A$ into some abelian group $A$ such that $varphi(x) neq 1$.
If the transfer homomorphism is known, this is an easy task. Indeed, the transfer homomorphism $varphi colon G to P$ satisfies $varphi(x) = x^{|G:P|} neq 1$. But this morphism is only introduced later in the book. I suspect the authors want the reader to construct a linear representation $varphi colon G to mathbb{C}^times$ instead.
Maybe a desired proof would start like this: Since $P$ is abelian, there is a linear character $lambda$ of $P$ such that $lambda(x) neq 1$. Then $chi = lambda^G$ is a character of $G$ of degree $chi(1) = |G : P|$ with $x notin operatorname{Ker}(chi)$. More precisely, we have $chi_{|langle x rangle} = |G:P| cdot lambda_{|langle x rangle}$ (since $x in Z(G)$). In particular, we have $x notin operatorname{Ker}(psi)$ for all irreducible constituents $psi$ of $chi$. So it suffices to show that $chi$ has at least one linear constituent.
Any ideas how to continue from here? Note that I have not used that $P$ is a Sylow group so far.
Added later: As Dietrich Burde's comment shows, I was actually quite close: Instead of looking for a constituent of $chi$, one only needs to consider the determinant $varphi = det chi$. This is a homomorphism $G to mathbb{C}^times$ satisfying $varphi(x) = lambda(x)^{|G:P|} neq 1$.
By essentially the same argument, we can also prove the more general statement: $P cap Z(G) cap G' leq P'$ for all (not necessarily abelian) Sylow subgroups $P leq G$.
abstract-algebra group-theory finite-groups representation-theory
$endgroup$
In Exercise §11.12 of “Methods of Representation Theory” by Curtis and Reiner, the reader is asked to prove the statement given in the title. In other words: If $P$ is an abelian $p$-Sylow subgroup of a finite group $G$, and if $x in P cap Z(G)$ is any non-trivial element (of order $p$, say), we have to show there is a homomorphism $varphi colon G to A$ into some abelian group $A$ such that $varphi(x) neq 1$.
If the transfer homomorphism is known, this is an easy task. Indeed, the transfer homomorphism $varphi colon G to P$ satisfies $varphi(x) = x^{|G:P|} neq 1$. But this morphism is only introduced later in the book. I suspect the authors want the reader to construct a linear representation $varphi colon G to mathbb{C}^times$ instead.
Maybe a desired proof would start like this: Since $P$ is abelian, there is a linear character $lambda$ of $P$ such that $lambda(x) neq 1$. Then $chi = lambda^G$ is a character of $G$ of degree $chi(1) = |G : P|$ with $x notin operatorname{Ker}(chi)$. More precisely, we have $chi_{|langle x rangle} = |G:P| cdot lambda_{|langle x rangle}$ (since $x in Z(G)$). In particular, we have $x notin operatorname{Ker}(psi)$ for all irreducible constituents $psi$ of $chi$. So it suffices to show that $chi$ has at least one linear constituent.
Any ideas how to continue from here? Note that I have not used that $P$ is a Sylow group so far.
Added later: As Dietrich Burde's comment shows, I was actually quite close: Instead of looking for a constituent of $chi$, one only needs to consider the determinant $varphi = det chi$. This is a homomorphism $G to mathbb{C}^times$ satisfying $varphi(x) = lambda(x)^{|G:P|} neq 1$.
By essentially the same argument, we can also prove the more general statement: $P cap Z(G) cap G' leq P'$ for all (not necessarily abelian) Sylow subgroups $P leq G$.
abstract-algebra group-theory finite-groups representation-theory
abstract-algebra group-theory finite-groups representation-theory
edited Dec 13 '18 at 21:00
Dune
asked Dec 13 '18 at 19:18
DuneDune
4,46211231
4,46211231
$begingroup$
The references here also give an argument for one (not all) $p$-Sylow group being abelian; see also Geoff Robinson's answer (can be proved also without using transfer).
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Dec 13 '18 at 19:48
$begingroup$
@DietrichBurde: This is perfect, thank you very much! Isaacs' answer shows that I actually was on the right track. I will also think about a transfer-free proof of Geoff Robinson's suggestion (the focal subgroup theorem uses transfer if I am not mistaken?).
$endgroup$
– Dune
Dec 13 '18 at 19:58
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The references here also give an argument for one (not all) $p$-Sylow group being abelian; see also Geoff Robinson's answer (can be proved also without using transfer).
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Dec 13 '18 at 19:48
$begingroup$
@DietrichBurde: This is perfect, thank you very much! Isaacs' answer shows that I actually was on the right track. I will also think about a transfer-free proof of Geoff Robinson's suggestion (the focal subgroup theorem uses transfer if I am not mistaken?).
$endgroup$
– Dune
Dec 13 '18 at 19:58
$begingroup$
The references here also give an argument for one (not all) $p$-Sylow group being abelian; see also Geoff Robinson's answer (can be proved also without using transfer).
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Dec 13 '18 at 19:48
$begingroup$
The references here also give an argument for one (not all) $p$-Sylow group being abelian; see also Geoff Robinson's answer (can be proved also without using transfer).
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Dec 13 '18 at 19:48
$begingroup$
@DietrichBurde: This is perfect, thank you very much! Isaacs' answer shows that I actually was on the right track. I will also think about a transfer-free proof of Geoff Robinson's suggestion (the focal subgroup theorem uses transfer if I am not mistaken?).
$endgroup$
– Dune
Dec 13 '18 at 19:58
$begingroup$
@DietrichBurde: This is perfect, thank you very much! Isaacs' answer shows that I actually was on the right track. I will also think about a transfer-free proof of Geoff Robinson's suggestion (the focal subgroup theorem uses transfer if I am not mistaken?).
$endgroup$
– Dune
Dec 13 '18 at 19:58
add a comment |
1 Answer
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$begingroup$
Here is the total proof.
Theorem Let $P in Syl_p(G)$, then $G' cap Z(G) cap P subseteq P'$.
Proof Choose a linear character $lambda in Irr(P)$ and $g in G' cap Z(G) cap P$. We are going to show that $lambda(g)=1$. Since $P'=bigcap {ker(lambda) : lambda in Irr(P), lambda(1)=1}$, this will guarantee the result.
Now, $lambda^G=sum a_{chi}chi$, for certain $chi in Irr(G)$ and $a_{chi}$ positive integers. Since $lambda^G(1)=|G:P|=sum a_{chi}chi(1)$ is a not divisible by $p$, there must be a constituent $chi$ of $lambda^G$ with $p nmid chi(1)$. Let $mathfrak{X}$ be a representation affording this character $chi$.
Since $g in Z(G)$, $mathfrak{X}(g)=omega I$ for certain $omega in mathbb{C}^*$. Note that the order of $omega$ (in $mathbb{C}^*$) is a divisor of the order of $g$, which is a power of $p$, since $g in P$. But $g in G'$, so $det(mathfrak{X}(g))=det(omega I)=omega^{chi(1)}=1$. So the order of $omega$ divides also $chi(1)$. We conclude that $omega=1$, and hence $g in ker(mathfrak{X})=ker(chi)$. By Frobenius Reciprocity, $chi_P=a_{chi}lambda + cdots$, whence $ker(chi_P)=P cap ker(chi) subseteq ker(lambda)$. So $g in ker(lambda)$ and we are done.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Here is the total proof.
Theorem Let $P in Syl_p(G)$, then $G' cap Z(G) cap P subseteq P'$.
Proof Choose a linear character $lambda in Irr(P)$ and $g in G' cap Z(G) cap P$. We are going to show that $lambda(g)=1$. Since $P'=bigcap {ker(lambda) : lambda in Irr(P), lambda(1)=1}$, this will guarantee the result.
Now, $lambda^G=sum a_{chi}chi$, for certain $chi in Irr(G)$ and $a_{chi}$ positive integers. Since $lambda^G(1)=|G:P|=sum a_{chi}chi(1)$ is a not divisible by $p$, there must be a constituent $chi$ of $lambda^G$ with $p nmid chi(1)$. Let $mathfrak{X}$ be a representation affording this character $chi$.
Since $g in Z(G)$, $mathfrak{X}(g)=omega I$ for certain $omega in mathbb{C}^*$. Note that the order of $omega$ (in $mathbb{C}^*$) is a divisor of the order of $g$, which is a power of $p$, since $g in P$. But $g in G'$, so $det(mathfrak{X}(g))=det(omega I)=omega^{chi(1)}=1$. So the order of $omega$ divides also $chi(1)$. We conclude that $omega=1$, and hence $g in ker(mathfrak{X})=ker(chi)$. By Frobenius Reciprocity, $chi_P=a_{chi}lambda + cdots$, whence $ker(chi_P)=P cap ker(chi) subseteq ker(lambda)$. So $g in ker(lambda)$ and we are done.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Here is the total proof.
Theorem Let $P in Syl_p(G)$, then $G' cap Z(G) cap P subseteq P'$.
Proof Choose a linear character $lambda in Irr(P)$ and $g in G' cap Z(G) cap P$. We are going to show that $lambda(g)=1$. Since $P'=bigcap {ker(lambda) : lambda in Irr(P), lambda(1)=1}$, this will guarantee the result.
Now, $lambda^G=sum a_{chi}chi$, for certain $chi in Irr(G)$ and $a_{chi}$ positive integers. Since $lambda^G(1)=|G:P|=sum a_{chi}chi(1)$ is a not divisible by $p$, there must be a constituent $chi$ of $lambda^G$ with $p nmid chi(1)$. Let $mathfrak{X}$ be a representation affording this character $chi$.
Since $g in Z(G)$, $mathfrak{X}(g)=omega I$ for certain $omega in mathbb{C}^*$. Note that the order of $omega$ (in $mathbb{C}^*$) is a divisor of the order of $g$, which is a power of $p$, since $g in P$. But $g in G'$, so $det(mathfrak{X}(g))=det(omega I)=omega^{chi(1)}=1$. So the order of $omega$ divides also $chi(1)$. We conclude that $omega=1$, and hence $g in ker(mathfrak{X})=ker(chi)$. By Frobenius Reciprocity, $chi_P=a_{chi}lambda + cdots$, whence $ker(chi_P)=P cap ker(chi) subseteq ker(lambda)$. So $g in ker(lambda)$ and we are done.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Here is the total proof.
Theorem Let $P in Syl_p(G)$, then $G' cap Z(G) cap P subseteq P'$.
Proof Choose a linear character $lambda in Irr(P)$ and $g in G' cap Z(G) cap P$. We are going to show that $lambda(g)=1$. Since $P'=bigcap {ker(lambda) : lambda in Irr(P), lambda(1)=1}$, this will guarantee the result.
Now, $lambda^G=sum a_{chi}chi$, for certain $chi in Irr(G)$ and $a_{chi}$ positive integers. Since $lambda^G(1)=|G:P|=sum a_{chi}chi(1)$ is a not divisible by $p$, there must be a constituent $chi$ of $lambda^G$ with $p nmid chi(1)$. Let $mathfrak{X}$ be a representation affording this character $chi$.
Since $g in Z(G)$, $mathfrak{X}(g)=omega I$ for certain $omega in mathbb{C}^*$. Note that the order of $omega$ (in $mathbb{C}^*$) is a divisor of the order of $g$, which is a power of $p$, since $g in P$. But $g in G'$, so $det(mathfrak{X}(g))=det(omega I)=omega^{chi(1)}=1$. So the order of $omega$ divides also $chi(1)$. We conclude that $omega=1$, and hence $g in ker(mathfrak{X})=ker(chi)$. By Frobenius Reciprocity, $chi_P=a_{chi}lambda + cdots$, whence $ker(chi_P)=P cap ker(chi) subseteq ker(lambda)$. So $g in ker(lambda)$ and we are done.
$endgroup$
Here is the total proof.
Theorem Let $P in Syl_p(G)$, then $G' cap Z(G) cap P subseteq P'$.
Proof Choose a linear character $lambda in Irr(P)$ and $g in G' cap Z(G) cap P$. We are going to show that $lambda(g)=1$. Since $P'=bigcap {ker(lambda) : lambda in Irr(P), lambda(1)=1}$, this will guarantee the result.
Now, $lambda^G=sum a_{chi}chi$, for certain $chi in Irr(G)$ and $a_{chi}$ positive integers. Since $lambda^G(1)=|G:P|=sum a_{chi}chi(1)$ is a not divisible by $p$, there must be a constituent $chi$ of $lambda^G$ with $p nmid chi(1)$. Let $mathfrak{X}$ be a representation affording this character $chi$.
Since $g in Z(G)$, $mathfrak{X}(g)=omega I$ for certain $omega in mathbb{C}^*$. Note that the order of $omega$ (in $mathbb{C}^*$) is a divisor of the order of $g$, which is a power of $p$, since $g in P$. But $g in G'$, so $det(mathfrak{X}(g))=det(omega I)=omega^{chi(1)}=1$. So the order of $omega$ divides also $chi(1)$. We conclude that $omega=1$, and hence $g in ker(mathfrak{X})=ker(chi)$. By Frobenius Reciprocity, $chi_P=a_{chi}lambda + cdots$, whence $ker(chi_P)=P cap ker(chi) subseteq ker(lambda)$. So $g in ker(lambda)$ and we are done.
answered Dec 31 '18 at 13:25
Nicky HeksterNicky Hekster
28.8k63456
28.8k63456
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
The references here also give an argument for one (not all) $p$-Sylow group being abelian; see also Geoff Robinson's answer (can be proved also without using transfer).
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Dec 13 '18 at 19:48
$begingroup$
@DietrichBurde: This is perfect, thank you very much! Isaacs' answer shows that I actually was on the right track. I will also think about a transfer-free proof of Geoff Robinson's suggestion (the focal subgroup theorem uses transfer if I am not mistaken?).
$endgroup$
– Dune
Dec 13 '18 at 19:58