Applying sine orthogonality
$begingroup$
I have a confusion as to why this is a viable procedure in the following image:
$$
sum_{n} B_n int_{0}^{a} sin left( frac{n pi x}{a}right) sin left( frac{m pi x}{a}right)
= sum_{n} B_n left( frac{a}{2} right) delta_m
= frac{a B_m}{2}
$$
To my knowledge (which is likely the thing that needs to improve here), sine orthogonality can be applied when integrating $sin(m k x) sin(n kx)$ over a full period (where $m, n$ are integers, and $k$ is a wavenumber, where $k = frac{2pi}{lambda}$), not half of one.
Here the period is clearly $2a$, so why is this permissible as well? It seems I don't know when and when I can't apply sine orthogonality given certain limits of integration and wavenumbers.
fourier-analysis orthonormal
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have a confusion as to why this is a viable procedure in the following image:
$$
sum_{n} B_n int_{0}^{a} sin left( frac{n pi x}{a}right) sin left( frac{m pi x}{a}right)
= sum_{n} B_n left( frac{a}{2} right) delta_m
= frac{a B_m}{2}
$$
To my knowledge (which is likely the thing that needs to improve here), sine orthogonality can be applied when integrating $sin(m k x) sin(n kx)$ over a full period (where $m, n$ are integers, and $k$ is a wavenumber, where $k = frac{2pi}{lambda}$), not half of one.
Here the period is clearly $2a$, so why is this permissible as well? It seems I don't know when and when I can't apply sine orthogonality given certain limits of integration and wavenumbers.
fourier-analysis orthonormal
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:17
$begingroup$
I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:19
1
$begingroup$
Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:20
$begingroup$
That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:26
$begingroup$
Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:37
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have a confusion as to why this is a viable procedure in the following image:
$$
sum_{n} B_n int_{0}^{a} sin left( frac{n pi x}{a}right) sin left( frac{m pi x}{a}right)
= sum_{n} B_n left( frac{a}{2} right) delta_m
= frac{a B_m}{2}
$$
To my knowledge (which is likely the thing that needs to improve here), sine orthogonality can be applied when integrating $sin(m k x) sin(n kx)$ over a full period (where $m, n$ are integers, and $k$ is a wavenumber, where $k = frac{2pi}{lambda}$), not half of one.
Here the period is clearly $2a$, so why is this permissible as well? It seems I don't know when and when I can't apply sine orthogonality given certain limits of integration and wavenumbers.
fourier-analysis orthonormal
$endgroup$
I have a confusion as to why this is a viable procedure in the following image:
$$
sum_{n} B_n int_{0}^{a} sin left( frac{n pi x}{a}right) sin left( frac{m pi x}{a}right)
= sum_{n} B_n left( frac{a}{2} right) delta_m
= frac{a B_m}{2}
$$
To my knowledge (which is likely the thing that needs to improve here), sine orthogonality can be applied when integrating $sin(m k x) sin(n kx)$ over a full period (where $m, n$ are integers, and $k$ is a wavenumber, where $k = frac{2pi}{lambda}$), not half of one.
Here the period is clearly $2a$, so why is this permissible as well? It seems I don't know when and when I can't apply sine orthogonality given certain limits of integration and wavenumbers.
fourier-analysis orthonormal
fourier-analysis orthonormal
edited Dec 14 '18 at 21:49
Viktor Glombik
1,0931527
1,0931527
asked Dec 14 '18 at 21:14
sangstarsangstar
853215
853215
3
$begingroup$
Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:17
$begingroup$
I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:19
1
$begingroup$
Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:20
$begingroup$
That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:26
$begingroup$
Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:37
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:17
$begingroup$
I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:19
1
$begingroup$
Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:20
$begingroup$
That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:26
$begingroup$
Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:37
3
3
$begingroup$
Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:17
$begingroup$
Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:17
$begingroup$
I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:19
$begingroup$
I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:19
1
1
$begingroup$
Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:20
$begingroup$
Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:20
$begingroup$
That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:26
$begingroup$
That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:26
$begingroup$
Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:37
$begingroup$
Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:37
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Your eigenfunctions are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0) = 0,;; y(a)=0.
$$
That is,
$y_n(x)=sin(npi x/a)$ for $n=1,2,3,cdots$ are the solutions where $lambda_n=n^2pi^2/a^2$. These are automatically orthogonal because of the selfadjoint nature of this ODE. And they form an orthonormal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.
Likewise, $y_n(x)=cos(npi x/a)$ for $n=0,1,2,3,cdots$ are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y= 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y'(0)=0,;; y'(a)=0
$$
So these functions also form an orthogonal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.
There are also orthogonal bases of $sin$ functions with non-harmonic arguments that form an orthogonal basis. For example, consider the more general problem
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0)=0,;;; Ay(a)+By'(a)=0.
$$
The functions $sin(alpha_n x)$ are solutions where
$$
Asin(alpha_n a)+Balpha_ncos(alpha_n a)=0
$$
The solutions $alpha_n$ are not evenly spaced, but the corresponding $sin(alpha_a x)$ are mutually orthogonal.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you start with a function $fin L^2[0,a]$ and you extend this to an odd function $f_o in L^2[-a,a]$, and then you expand this function in a Fourier series on $[-a,a]$, you get your sine series for $f$ on $[0,a]$.
Similarly, if you extend $f$ to an even function $f_e$, then you get an expansion of $f$ on $[0,a]$ in terms of cosines $cos(npi x/a)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
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oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Your eigenfunctions are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0) = 0,;; y(a)=0.
$$
That is,
$y_n(x)=sin(npi x/a)$ for $n=1,2,3,cdots$ are the solutions where $lambda_n=n^2pi^2/a^2$. These are automatically orthogonal because of the selfadjoint nature of this ODE. And they form an orthonormal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.
Likewise, $y_n(x)=cos(npi x/a)$ for $n=0,1,2,3,cdots$ are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y= 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y'(0)=0,;; y'(a)=0
$$
So these functions also form an orthogonal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.
There are also orthogonal bases of $sin$ functions with non-harmonic arguments that form an orthogonal basis. For example, consider the more general problem
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0)=0,;;; Ay(a)+By'(a)=0.
$$
The functions $sin(alpha_n x)$ are solutions where
$$
Asin(alpha_n a)+Balpha_ncos(alpha_n a)=0
$$
The solutions $alpha_n$ are not evenly spaced, but the corresponding $sin(alpha_a x)$ are mutually orthogonal.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your eigenfunctions are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0) = 0,;; y(a)=0.
$$
That is,
$y_n(x)=sin(npi x/a)$ for $n=1,2,3,cdots$ are the solutions where $lambda_n=n^2pi^2/a^2$. These are automatically orthogonal because of the selfadjoint nature of this ODE. And they form an orthonormal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.
Likewise, $y_n(x)=cos(npi x/a)$ for $n=0,1,2,3,cdots$ are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y= 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y'(0)=0,;; y'(a)=0
$$
So these functions also form an orthogonal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.
There are also orthogonal bases of $sin$ functions with non-harmonic arguments that form an orthogonal basis. For example, consider the more general problem
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0)=0,;;; Ay(a)+By'(a)=0.
$$
The functions $sin(alpha_n x)$ are solutions where
$$
Asin(alpha_n a)+Balpha_ncos(alpha_n a)=0
$$
The solutions $alpha_n$ are not evenly spaced, but the corresponding $sin(alpha_a x)$ are mutually orthogonal.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your eigenfunctions are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0) = 0,;; y(a)=0.
$$
That is,
$y_n(x)=sin(npi x/a)$ for $n=1,2,3,cdots$ are the solutions where $lambda_n=n^2pi^2/a^2$. These are automatically orthogonal because of the selfadjoint nature of this ODE. And they form an orthonormal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.
Likewise, $y_n(x)=cos(npi x/a)$ for $n=0,1,2,3,cdots$ are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y= 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y'(0)=0,;; y'(a)=0
$$
So these functions also form an orthogonal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.
There are also orthogonal bases of $sin$ functions with non-harmonic arguments that form an orthogonal basis. For example, consider the more general problem
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0)=0,;;; Ay(a)+By'(a)=0.
$$
The functions $sin(alpha_n x)$ are solutions where
$$
Asin(alpha_n a)+Balpha_ncos(alpha_n a)=0
$$
The solutions $alpha_n$ are not evenly spaced, but the corresponding $sin(alpha_a x)$ are mutually orthogonal.
$endgroup$
Your eigenfunctions are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0) = 0,;; y(a)=0.
$$
That is,
$y_n(x)=sin(npi x/a)$ for $n=1,2,3,cdots$ are the solutions where $lambda_n=n^2pi^2/a^2$. These are automatically orthogonal because of the selfadjoint nature of this ODE. And they form an orthonormal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.
Likewise, $y_n(x)=cos(npi x/a)$ for $n=0,1,2,3,cdots$ are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y= 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y'(0)=0,;; y'(a)=0
$$
So these functions also form an orthogonal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.
There are also orthogonal bases of $sin$ functions with non-harmonic arguments that form an orthogonal basis. For example, consider the more general problem
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0)=0,;;; Ay(a)+By'(a)=0.
$$
The functions $sin(alpha_n x)$ are solutions where
$$
Asin(alpha_n a)+Balpha_ncos(alpha_n a)=0
$$
The solutions $alpha_n$ are not evenly spaced, but the corresponding $sin(alpha_a x)$ are mutually orthogonal.
answered Dec 15 '18 at 17:51
DisintegratingByPartsDisintegratingByParts
59.5k42580
59.5k42580
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you start with a function $fin L^2[0,a]$ and you extend this to an odd function $f_o in L^2[-a,a]$, and then you expand this function in a Fourier series on $[-a,a]$, you get your sine series for $f$ on $[0,a]$.
Similarly, if you extend $f$ to an even function $f_e$, then you get an expansion of $f$ on $[0,a]$ in terms of cosines $cos(npi x/a)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you start with a function $fin L^2[0,a]$ and you extend this to an odd function $f_o in L^2[-a,a]$, and then you expand this function in a Fourier series on $[-a,a]$, you get your sine series for $f$ on $[0,a]$.
Similarly, if you extend $f$ to an even function $f_e$, then you get an expansion of $f$ on $[0,a]$ in terms of cosines $cos(npi x/a)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you start with a function $fin L^2[0,a]$ and you extend this to an odd function $f_o in L^2[-a,a]$, and then you expand this function in a Fourier series on $[-a,a]$, you get your sine series for $f$ on $[0,a]$.
Similarly, if you extend $f$ to an even function $f_e$, then you get an expansion of $f$ on $[0,a]$ in terms of cosines $cos(npi x/a)$.
$endgroup$
If you start with a function $fin L^2[0,a]$ and you extend this to an odd function $f_o in L^2[-a,a]$, and then you expand this function in a Fourier series on $[-a,a]$, you get your sine series for $f$ on $[0,a]$.
Similarly, if you extend $f$ to an even function $f_e$, then you get an expansion of $f$ on $[0,a]$ in terms of cosines $cos(npi x/a)$.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 17:07
DisintegratingByPartsDisintegratingByParts
59.5k42580
59.5k42580
add a comment |
add a comment |
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3
$begingroup$
Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:17
$begingroup$
I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:19
1
$begingroup$
Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:20
$begingroup$
That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:26
$begingroup$
Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:37