Applying sine orthogonality












0












$begingroup$


I have a confusion as to why this is a viable procedure in the following image:



$$
sum_{n} B_n int_{0}^{a} sin left( frac{n pi x}{a}right) sin left( frac{m pi x}{a}right)
= sum_{n} B_n left( frac{a}{2} right) delta_m
= frac{a B_m}{2}
$$



To my knowledge (which is likely the thing that needs to improve here), sine orthogonality can be applied when integrating $sin(m k x) sin(n kx)$ over a full period (where $m, n$ are integers, and $k$ is a wavenumber, where $k = frac{2pi}{lambda}$), not half of one.



Here the period is clearly $2a$, so why is this permissible as well? It seems I don't know when and when I can't apply sine orthogonality given certain limits of integration and wavenumbers.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
    $endgroup$
    – T. Bongers
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:17










  • $begingroup$
    I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:19






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
    $endgroup$
    – T. Bongers
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:20










  • $begingroup$
    That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:26












  • $begingroup$
    Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:37
















0












$begingroup$


I have a confusion as to why this is a viable procedure in the following image:



$$
sum_{n} B_n int_{0}^{a} sin left( frac{n pi x}{a}right) sin left( frac{m pi x}{a}right)
= sum_{n} B_n left( frac{a}{2} right) delta_m
= frac{a B_m}{2}
$$



To my knowledge (which is likely the thing that needs to improve here), sine orthogonality can be applied when integrating $sin(m k x) sin(n kx)$ over a full period (where $m, n$ are integers, and $k$ is a wavenumber, where $k = frac{2pi}{lambda}$), not half of one.



Here the period is clearly $2a$, so why is this permissible as well? It seems I don't know when and when I can't apply sine orthogonality given certain limits of integration and wavenumbers.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
    $endgroup$
    – T. Bongers
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:17










  • $begingroup$
    I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:19






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
    $endgroup$
    – T. Bongers
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:20










  • $begingroup$
    That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:26












  • $begingroup$
    Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:37














0












0








0





$begingroup$


I have a confusion as to why this is a viable procedure in the following image:



$$
sum_{n} B_n int_{0}^{a} sin left( frac{n pi x}{a}right) sin left( frac{m pi x}{a}right)
= sum_{n} B_n left( frac{a}{2} right) delta_m
= frac{a B_m}{2}
$$



To my knowledge (which is likely the thing that needs to improve here), sine orthogonality can be applied when integrating $sin(m k x) sin(n kx)$ over a full period (where $m, n$ are integers, and $k$ is a wavenumber, where $k = frac{2pi}{lambda}$), not half of one.



Here the period is clearly $2a$, so why is this permissible as well? It seems I don't know when and when I can't apply sine orthogonality given certain limits of integration and wavenumbers.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I have a confusion as to why this is a viable procedure in the following image:



$$
sum_{n} B_n int_{0}^{a} sin left( frac{n pi x}{a}right) sin left( frac{m pi x}{a}right)
= sum_{n} B_n left( frac{a}{2} right) delta_m
= frac{a B_m}{2}
$$



To my knowledge (which is likely the thing that needs to improve here), sine orthogonality can be applied when integrating $sin(m k x) sin(n kx)$ over a full period (where $m, n$ are integers, and $k$ is a wavenumber, where $k = frac{2pi}{lambda}$), not half of one.



Here the period is clearly $2a$, so why is this permissible as well? It seems I don't know when and when I can't apply sine orthogonality given certain limits of integration and wavenumbers.







fourier-analysis orthonormal






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Dec 14 '18 at 21:49









Viktor Glombik

1,0931527




1,0931527










asked Dec 14 '18 at 21:14









sangstarsangstar

853215




853215








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
    $endgroup$
    – T. Bongers
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:17










  • $begingroup$
    I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:19






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
    $endgroup$
    – T. Bongers
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:20










  • $begingroup$
    That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:26












  • $begingroup$
    Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:37














  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
    $endgroup$
    – T. Bongers
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:17










  • $begingroup$
    I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:19






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
    $endgroup$
    – T. Bongers
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:20










  • $begingroup$
    That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:26












  • $begingroup$
    Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
    $endgroup$
    – sangstar
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:37








3




3




$begingroup$
Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:17




$begingroup$
Why don't you just compute the integral explicitly? A sine addition formula will let you do this.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:17












$begingroup$
I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:19




$begingroup$
I certainly agree that the integral does turn out to be $a/2$, but I'm looking for a heuristic answer, basically. I don't want to have to check if my integral is equal to $delta_{nm}$ manually each time.
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:19




1




1




$begingroup$
Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:20




$begingroup$
Notice that the product of these two sine functions is even, so integrating over $[0, a]$ is the same as integrating over $[-a, 0]$. So you get half the value of integrating over a full period.
$endgroup$
– T. Bongers
Dec 14 '18 at 21:20












$begingroup$
That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:26






$begingroup$
That's a good point. The context for the image is that we're considering $0 le x le a$, so perhaps this is the motivation for this. So, here, the assumption that we must integrate over a full period for orthogonality is correct, but my lecturer is basically stating $int_0^a text{even function of x} dx = 1/2 int_0^{2a} text{even function of x} dx $? So I am true about having to integrate over a full period, I'm just forgetting the implicit step there?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:26














$begingroup$
Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:37




$begingroup$
Am I right in assuming this applies to any fraction of $2a$, not just $frac{2a}{2}$?
$endgroup$
– sangstar
Dec 14 '18 at 21:37










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















0












$begingroup$

Your eigenfunctions are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0) = 0,;; y(a)=0.
$$

That is,
$y_n(x)=sin(npi x/a)$ for $n=1,2,3,cdots$ are the solutions where $lambda_n=n^2pi^2/a^2$. These are automatically orthogonal because of the selfadjoint nature of this ODE. And they form an orthonormal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.



Likewise, $y_n(x)=cos(npi x/a)$ for $n=0,1,2,3,cdots$ are solutions of
$$
y''+lambda y= 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y'(0)=0,;; y'(a)=0
$$

So these functions also form an orthogonal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.



There are also orthogonal bases of $sin$ functions with non-harmonic arguments that form an orthogonal basis. For example, consider the more general problem
$$
y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
y(0)=0,;;; Ay(a)+By'(a)=0.
$$

The functions $sin(alpha_n x)$ are solutions where
$$
Asin(alpha_n a)+Balpha_ncos(alpha_n a)=0
$$

The solutions $alpha_n$ are not evenly spaced, but the corresponding $sin(alpha_a x)$ are mutually orthogonal.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    If you start with a function $fin L^2[0,a]$ and you extend this to an odd function $f_o in L^2[-a,a]$, and then you expand this function in a Fourier series on $[-a,a]$, you get your sine series for $f$ on $[0,a]$.



    Similarly, if you extend $f$ to an even function $f_e$, then you get an expansion of $f$ on $[0,a]$ in terms of cosines $cos(npi x/a)$.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes








      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      0












      $begingroup$

      Your eigenfunctions are solutions of
      $$
      y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
      y(0) = 0,;; y(a)=0.
      $$

      That is,
      $y_n(x)=sin(npi x/a)$ for $n=1,2,3,cdots$ are the solutions where $lambda_n=n^2pi^2/a^2$. These are automatically orthogonal because of the selfadjoint nature of this ODE. And they form an orthonormal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.



      Likewise, $y_n(x)=cos(npi x/a)$ for $n=0,1,2,3,cdots$ are solutions of
      $$
      y''+lambda y= 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
      y'(0)=0,;; y'(a)=0
      $$

      So these functions also form an orthogonal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.



      There are also orthogonal bases of $sin$ functions with non-harmonic arguments that form an orthogonal basis. For example, consider the more general problem
      $$
      y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
      y(0)=0,;;; Ay(a)+By'(a)=0.
      $$

      The functions $sin(alpha_n x)$ are solutions where
      $$
      Asin(alpha_n a)+Balpha_ncos(alpha_n a)=0
      $$

      The solutions $alpha_n$ are not evenly spaced, but the corresponding $sin(alpha_a x)$ are mutually orthogonal.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        0












        $begingroup$

        Your eigenfunctions are solutions of
        $$
        y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
        y(0) = 0,;; y(a)=0.
        $$

        That is,
        $y_n(x)=sin(npi x/a)$ for $n=1,2,3,cdots$ are the solutions where $lambda_n=n^2pi^2/a^2$. These are automatically orthogonal because of the selfadjoint nature of this ODE. And they form an orthonormal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.



        Likewise, $y_n(x)=cos(npi x/a)$ for $n=0,1,2,3,cdots$ are solutions of
        $$
        y''+lambda y= 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
        y'(0)=0,;; y'(a)=0
        $$

        So these functions also form an orthogonal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.



        There are also orthogonal bases of $sin$ functions with non-harmonic arguments that form an orthogonal basis. For example, consider the more general problem
        $$
        y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
        y(0)=0,;;; Ay(a)+By'(a)=0.
        $$

        The functions $sin(alpha_n x)$ are solutions where
        $$
        Asin(alpha_n a)+Balpha_ncos(alpha_n a)=0
        $$

        The solutions $alpha_n$ are not evenly spaced, but the corresponding $sin(alpha_a x)$ are mutually orthogonal.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          0












          0








          0





          $begingroup$

          Your eigenfunctions are solutions of
          $$
          y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
          y(0) = 0,;; y(a)=0.
          $$

          That is,
          $y_n(x)=sin(npi x/a)$ for $n=1,2,3,cdots$ are the solutions where $lambda_n=n^2pi^2/a^2$. These are automatically orthogonal because of the selfadjoint nature of this ODE. And they form an orthonormal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.



          Likewise, $y_n(x)=cos(npi x/a)$ for $n=0,1,2,3,cdots$ are solutions of
          $$
          y''+lambda y= 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
          y'(0)=0,;; y'(a)=0
          $$

          So these functions also form an orthogonal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.



          There are also orthogonal bases of $sin$ functions with non-harmonic arguments that form an orthogonal basis. For example, consider the more general problem
          $$
          y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
          y(0)=0,;;; Ay(a)+By'(a)=0.
          $$

          The functions $sin(alpha_n x)$ are solutions where
          $$
          Asin(alpha_n a)+Balpha_ncos(alpha_n a)=0
          $$

          The solutions $alpha_n$ are not evenly spaced, but the corresponding $sin(alpha_a x)$ are mutually orthogonal.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Your eigenfunctions are solutions of
          $$
          y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
          y(0) = 0,;; y(a)=0.
          $$

          That is,
          $y_n(x)=sin(npi x/a)$ for $n=1,2,3,cdots$ are the solutions where $lambda_n=n^2pi^2/a^2$. These are automatically orthogonal because of the selfadjoint nature of this ODE. And they form an orthonormal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.



          Likewise, $y_n(x)=cos(npi x/a)$ for $n=0,1,2,3,cdots$ are solutions of
          $$
          y''+lambda y= 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
          y'(0)=0,;; y'(a)=0
          $$

          So these functions also form an orthogonal basis of $L^2[0,a]$.



          There are also orthogonal bases of $sin$ functions with non-harmonic arguments that form an orthogonal basis. For example, consider the more general problem
          $$
          y''+lambda y = 0,;;; 0 le x le a \
          y(0)=0,;;; Ay(a)+By'(a)=0.
          $$

          The functions $sin(alpha_n x)$ are solutions where
          $$
          Asin(alpha_n a)+Balpha_ncos(alpha_n a)=0
          $$

          The solutions $alpha_n$ are not evenly spaced, but the corresponding $sin(alpha_a x)$ are mutually orthogonal.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Dec 15 '18 at 17:51









          DisintegratingByPartsDisintegratingByParts

          59.5k42580




          59.5k42580























              0












              $begingroup$

              If you start with a function $fin L^2[0,a]$ and you extend this to an odd function $f_o in L^2[-a,a]$, and then you expand this function in a Fourier series on $[-a,a]$, you get your sine series for $f$ on $[0,a]$.



              Similarly, if you extend $f$ to an even function $f_e$, then you get an expansion of $f$ on $[0,a]$ in terms of cosines $cos(npi x/a)$.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$

                If you start with a function $fin L^2[0,a]$ and you extend this to an odd function $f_o in L^2[-a,a]$, and then you expand this function in a Fourier series on $[-a,a]$, you get your sine series for $f$ on $[0,a]$.



                Similarly, if you extend $f$ to an even function $f_e$, then you get an expansion of $f$ on $[0,a]$ in terms of cosines $cos(npi x/a)$.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  If you start with a function $fin L^2[0,a]$ and you extend this to an odd function $f_o in L^2[-a,a]$, and then you expand this function in a Fourier series on $[-a,a]$, you get your sine series for $f$ on $[0,a]$.



                  Similarly, if you extend $f$ to an even function $f_e$, then you get an expansion of $f$ on $[0,a]$ in terms of cosines $cos(npi x/a)$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  If you start with a function $fin L^2[0,a]$ and you extend this to an odd function $f_o in L^2[-a,a]$, and then you expand this function in a Fourier series on $[-a,a]$, you get your sine series for $f$ on $[0,a]$.



                  Similarly, if you extend $f$ to an even function $f_e$, then you get an expansion of $f$ on $[0,a]$ in terms of cosines $cos(npi x/a)$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Dec 20 '18 at 17:07









                  DisintegratingByPartsDisintegratingByParts

                  59.5k42580




                  59.5k42580






























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