Find the sign of $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$











up vote
9
down vote

favorite












I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.



Any suggestions?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Do you want an approximate?
    – Pedro Tamaroff
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34










  • Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
    – Bill Cook
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34






  • 2




    No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
    – Jozef
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:38















up vote
9
down vote

favorite












I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.



Any suggestions?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Do you want an approximate?
    – Pedro Tamaroff
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34










  • Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
    – Bill Cook
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34






  • 2




    No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
    – Jozef
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:38













up vote
9
down vote

favorite









up vote
9
down vote

favorite











I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.



Any suggestions?










share|cite|improve this question















I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.



Any suggestions?







calculus






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 17 at 5:48









Abcd

2,88511130




2,88511130










asked Feb 8 '12 at 16:30









Jozef

2,82132464




2,82132464












  • Do you want an approximate?
    – Pedro Tamaroff
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34










  • Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
    – Bill Cook
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34






  • 2




    No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
    – Jozef
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:38


















  • Do you want an approximate?
    – Pedro Tamaroff
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34










  • Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
    – Bill Cook
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34






  • 2




    No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
    – Jozef
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:38
















Do you want an approximate?
– Pedro Tamaroff
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34




Do you want an approximate?
– Pedro Tamaroff
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34












Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
– Bill Cook
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34




Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
– Bill Cook
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34




2




2




No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:38




No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:38










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
26
down vote



accepted










$$
begin{align*}
int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
&=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
&>0
end{align*}
$$






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
    – Jozef
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:49




















up vote
2
down vote













Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.



For the value, integrate in the same interval



$$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$



The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.



Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$



For the first one you have.



$$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$



For the latter:



$$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$



Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.






share|cite|improve this answer






























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.



    Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.



    So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$






    share|cite|improve this answer





















      Your Answer





      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
      });
      });
      }, "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "69"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      convertImagesToLinks: true,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: 10,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














       

      draft saved


      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f107113%2ffind-the-sign-of-int-02-pi-frac-sin-xx-dx%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      26
      down vote



      accepted










      $$
      begin{align*}
      int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
      &=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
      &>0
      end{align*}
      $$






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
        – Jozef
        Feb 8 '12 at 16:49

















      up vote
      26
      down vote



      accepted










      $$
      begin{align*}
      int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
      &=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
      &>0
      end{align*}
      $$






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
        – Jozef
        Feb 8 '12 at 16:49















      up vote
      26
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      26
      down vote



      accepted






      $$
      begin{align*}
      int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
      &=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
      &>0
      end{align*}
      $$






      share|cite|improve this answer












      $$
      begin{align*}
      int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
      &=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
      &>0
      end{align*}
      $$







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Feb 8 '12 at 16:43









      Julián Aguirre

      66.7k23994




      66.7k23994












      • Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
        – Jozef
        Feb 8 '12 at 16:49




















      • Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
        – Jozef
        Feb 8 '12 at 16:49


















      Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
      – Jozef
      Feb 8 '12 at 16:49






      Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
      – Jozef
      Feb 8 '12 at 16:49












      up vote
      2
      down vote













      Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.



      For the value, integrate in the same interval



      $$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$



      The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.



      Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$



      For the first one you have.



      $$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$



      For the latter:



      $$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$



      Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.






      share|cite|improve this answer



























        up vote
        2
        down vote













        Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.



        For the value, integrate in the same interval



        $$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$



        The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.



        Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$



        For the first one you have.



        $$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$



        For the latter:



        $$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$



        Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.






        share|cite|improve this answer

























          up vote
          2
          down vote










          up vote
          2
          down vote









          Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.



          For the value, integrate in the same interval



          $$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$



          The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.



          Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$



          For the first one you have.



          $$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$



          For the latter:



          $$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$



          Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.






          share|cite|improve this answer














          Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.



          For the value, integrate in the same interval



          $$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$



          The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.



          Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$



          For the first one you have.



          $$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$



          For the latter:



          $$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$



          Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Feb 8 '12 at 16:44

























          answered Feb 8 '12 at 16:38









          Pedro Tamaroff

          95.5k10149295




          95.5k10149295






















              up vote
              1
              down vote













              Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.



              Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.



              So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                1
                down vote













                Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.



                Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.



                So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote









                  Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.



                  Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.



                  So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.



                  Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.



                  So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Feb 8 '12 at 16:45









                  Bill Cook

                  22.8k4568




                  22.8k4568






























                       

                      draft saved


                      draft discarded



















































                       


                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f107113%2ffind-the-sign-of-int-02-pi-frac-sin-xx-dx%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      Bundesstraße 106

                      Verónica Boquete

                      Ida-Boy-Ed-Garten