Find the sign of $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.
Any suggestions?
calculus
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.
Any suggestions?
calculus
Do you want an approximate?
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
– Bill Cook
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
2
No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:38
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.
Any suggestions?
calculus
I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.
Any suggestions?
calculus
calculus
edited Nov 17 at 5:48
Abcd
2,88511130
2,88511130
asked Feb 8 '12 at 16:30
Jozef
2,82132464
2,82132464
Do you want an approximate?
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
– Bill Cook
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
2
No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:38
add a comment |
Do you want an approximate?
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
– Bill Cook
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
2
No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:38
Do you want an approximate?
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
Do you want an approximate?
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
– Bill Cook
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
– Bill Cook
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
2
2
No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:38
No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:38
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
26
down vote
accepted
$$
begin{align*}
int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
&=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
&>0
end{align*}
$$
Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:49
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.
For the value, integrate in the same interval
$$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$
The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.
Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$
For the first one you have.
$$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$
For the latter:
$$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$
Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.
Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.
So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
26
down vote
accepted
$$
begin{align*}
int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
&=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
&>0
end{align*}
$$
Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:49
add a comment |
up vote
26
down vote
accepted
$$
begin{align*}
int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
&=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
&>0
end{align*}
$$
Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:49
add a comment |
up vote
26
down vote
accepted
up vote
26
down vote
accepted
$$
begin{align*}
int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
&=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
&>0
end{align*}
$$
$$
begin{align*}
int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
&=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
&>0
end{align*}
$$
answered Feb 8 '12 at 16:43
Julián Aguirre
66.7k23994
66.7k23994
Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:49
add a comment |
Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:49
Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:49
Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:49
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.
For the value, integrate in the same interval
$$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$
The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.
Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$
For the first one you have.
$$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$
For the latter:
$$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$
Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.
For the value, integrate in the same interval
$$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$
The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.
Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$
For the first one you have.
$$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$
For the latter:
$$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$
Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.
For the value, integrate in the same interval
$$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$
The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.
Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$
For the first one you have.
$$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$
For the latter:
$$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$
Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.
Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.
For the value, integrate in the same interval
$$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$
The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.
Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$
For the first one you have.
$$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$
For the latter:
$$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$
Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.
edited Feb 8 '12 at 16:44
answered Feb 8 '12 at 16:38
Pedro Tamaroff♦
95.5k10149295
95.5k10149295
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.
Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.
So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.
Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.
So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.
Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.
So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$
Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.
Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.
So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$
answered Feb 8 '12 at 16:45
Bill Cook
22.8k4568
22.8k4568
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Do you want an approximate?
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
– Bill Cook
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34
2
No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:38