Find the sign of $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$











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I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.



Any suggestions?










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  • Do you want an approximate?
    – Pedro Tamaroff
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34










  • Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
    – Bill Cook
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34






  • 2




    No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
    – Jozef
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:38















up vote
9
down vote

favorite












I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.



Any suggestions?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Do you want an approximate?
    – Pedro Tamaroff
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34










  • Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
    – Bill Cook
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34






  • 2




    No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
    – Jozef
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:38













up vote
9
down vote

favorite









up vote
9
down vote

favorite











I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.



Any suggestions?










share|cite|improve this question















I'd love your help with finding the sign of the following integral: $int_{0}^{2 pi}frac{sin x}{x} dx$,I know that computing it is impossible. I tried to use integration by parts and maybe to learn about the sign of each part and conclude something but It didn't work for me.



Any suggestions?







calculus






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Nov 17 at 5:48









Abcd

2,88511130




2,88511130










asked Feb 8 '12 at 16:30









Jozef

2,82132464




2,82132464












  • Do you want an approximate?
    – Pedro Tamaroff
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34










  • Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
    – Bill Cook
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34






  • 2




    No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
    – Jozef
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:38


















  • Do you want an approximate?
    – Pedro Tamaroff
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34










  • Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
    – Bill Cook
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:34






  • 2




    No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
    – Jozef
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:38
















Do you want an approximate?
– Pedro Tamaroff
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34




Do you want an approximate?
– Pedro Tamaroff
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34












Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
– Bill Cook
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34




Wolfram alpha will give you an approximation. (by the way it's positive)
– Bill Cook
Feb 8 '12 at 16:34




2




2




No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:38




No, as I said I want to find only the sign, I want to find it by a "calculus- investigation", and not by checking it on W.A :) Thanks!
– Jozef
Feb 8 '12 at 16:38










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
26
down vote



accepted










$$
begin{align*}
int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
&=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
&=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
&>0
end{align*}
$$






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
    – Jozef
    Feb 8 '12 at 16:49




















up vote
2
down vote













Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.



For the value, integrate in the same interval



$$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$



The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.



Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$



For the first one you have.



$$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$



For the latter:



$$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$



Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.






share|cite|improve this answer






























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.



    Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.



    So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$






    share|cite|improve this answer





















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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      26
      down vote



      accepted










      $$
      begin{align*}
      int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
      &=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
      &>0
      end{align*}
      $$






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
        – Jozef
        Feb 8 '12 at 16:49

















      up vote
      26
      down vote



      accepted










      $$
      begin{align*}
      int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
      &=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
      &>0
      end{align*}
      $$






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
        – Jozef
        Feb 8 '12 at 16:49















      up vote
      26
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      26
      down vote



      accepted






      $$
      begin{align*}
      int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
      &=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
      &>0
      end{align*}
      $$






      share|cite|improve this answer












      $$
      begin{align*}
      int_0^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx&=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_pi^{2pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x},dx+int_0^{pi}frac{sin(x+pi)}{x+pi},dx\
      &=int_0^{pi}Bigl(frac{1}{x}-frac{1}{x+pi}Bigr)sin x,dx\
      &=piint_0^{pi}frac{sin x}{x(x+pi)},dx\
      &>0
      end{align*}
      $$







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Feb 8 '12 at 16:43









      Julián Aguirre

      66.7k23994




      66.7k23994












      • Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
        – Jozef
        Feb 8 '12 at 16:49




















      • Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
        – Jozef
        Feb 8 '12 at 16:49


















      Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
      – Jozef
      Feb 8 '12 at 16:49






      Thanks Julian! :) very nice solution!
      – Jozef
      Feb 8 '12 at 16:49












      up vote
      2
      down vote













      Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.



      For the value, integrate in the same interval



      $$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$



      The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.



      Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$



      For the first one you have.



      $$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$



      For the latter:



      $$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$



      Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.






      share|cite|improve this answer



























        up vote
        2
        down vote













        Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.



        For the value, integrate in the same interval



        $$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$



        The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.



        Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$



        For the first one you have.



        $$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$



        For the latter:



        $$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$



        Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.






        share|cite|improve this answer

























          up vote
          2
          down vote










          up vote
          2
          down vote









          Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.



          For the value, integrate in the same interval



          $$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$



          The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.



          Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$



          For the first one you have.



          $$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$



          For the latter:



          $$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$



          Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.






          share|cite|improve this answer














          Regarding the sign, it is easy the check that every area in each $pi$ interval is always smaller than the preceeding one. The sign is positive.



          For the value, integrate in the same interval



          $$y = cos frac{x}{2} cos frac{x}{4} cos frac{x}{8}$$



          The difference between the sinc function and that is at most $approx 0.015$ in that interval.



          Adding $$cos frac{x}{16}$$ makes the error at most $approx 0.003$



          For the first one you have.



          $$I = frac{104}{105} sqrt{2} simsqrt{2} $$



          For the latter:



          $$I = frac{{1568}}{{2145}}frac{{sqrt {2 + sqrt 2 } }}{2} sim sqrt{2}$$



          Maybe the area is $sqrt{2}$ after all.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Feb 8 '12 at 16:44

























          answered Feb 8 '12 at 16:38









          Pedro Tamaroff

          95.5k10149295




          95.5k10149295






















              up vote
              1
              down vote













              Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.



              Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.



              So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                1
                down vote













                Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.



                Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.



                So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote









                  Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.



                  Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.



                  So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  Let $f(x)=sin(x)/x$. So $f(x)=0$ when $sin(x)=0$. So the only solution in the interval $(0,2pi)$ is $x=pi$. Plugging in test points shows that $f(x)$ is positive to the left of $x=pi$ and negative to the right.



                  Next, if you accept that $1-x/3 leq sin(x)/x$ (make some argument using MacLaurin series), then $int_0^{pi} f(x),dx geq frac{1}{2}(3)(1)=3/2$. On the other hand $|sin(x)|/x leq |sin(x)|/3$ for $x geq 3$ so $int_{pi}^{2pi} |f(x)|,dx leq int_{pi}^{2pi} frac{|sin(x)|}{3},dx = 2/3$.



                  So $int_0^{2pi} f(x),dx geq 3/2-2/3>0$







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Feb 8 '12 at 16:45









                  Bill Cook

                  22.8k4568




                  22.8k4568






























                       

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