Is this co-worker relationship salvageable?
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Ok, I'll try to summarise the last several months of my experience in a few paragraphs.
I've been at my company for a little over 18 months. At first I entered as a junior developer, since I only had 2 years experience. After around 6 months, my line-manager (call him Steve), offered me a senior position, as they had interviewed many people for it and had not filled it. I told him I would accept as long as he promised to train me up, as I felt I was not suitably qualified at the time. Until this point, myself, Steve and a couple of the others were all friends, having a good time at work and doing social things outside the office.
Then everything changed. I don't know why, but I think Steve regretted giving me the position. He began speaking to me in unacceptable ways, i.e. swearing, barking orders at me and criticising everything I did, often verging on basically calling me stupid. The training he provided was basically writing code in front of me really fast. I didn't pick much up this way, but could tell he was trying to teach, so felt bad to say anything.
I kept a log of all of this and eventually, after 6 months of it, went to HR. I made a formal complaint about him and submitted details of exactly what he had said to me with times and dates and even a couple of witness' within the team.
HR investigated the case for several weeks, (during which time I had no work, as they said I could not work with Steve during the investigation, so I had nothing to do for 10 weeks, but still getting paid).
The outcome is that HR are doing nothing and that none of my claims can be upheld. Basically, he lied about everything, saying he didn't speak to me like that and shockingly, my colleagues lied for him as well, saying they never heard anything.
So now I'm in a position where I have no work, and he is refusing to accept meeting invites from me now the investigation is over to try and get some work and basically just move forward.
How can I salvage/repair this situation and co-worker relationship?
Before anyone suggests it, yes my line-manager has a manager of his own, unfortunately they are very good friends outside of work, so I've tried that route with no success.
manager software-development
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
Ok, I'll try to summarise the last several months of my experience in a few paragraphs.
I've been at my company for a little over 18 months. At first I entered as a junior developer, since I only had 2 years experience. After around 6 months, my line-manager (call him Steve), offered me a senior position, as they had interviewed many people for it and had not filled it. I told him I would accept as long as he promised to train me up, as I felt I was not suitably qualified at the time. Until this point, myself, Steve and a couple of the others were all friends, having a good time at work and doing social things outside the office.
Then everything changed. I don't know why, but I think Steve regretted giving me the position. He began speaking to me in unacceptable ways, i.e. swearing, barking orders at me and criticising everything I did, often verging on basically calling me stupid. The training he provided was basically writing code in front of me really fast. I didn't pick much up this way, but could tell he was trying to teach, so felt bad to say anything.
I kept a log of all of this and eventually, after 6 months of it, went to HR. I made a formal complaint about him and submitted details of exactly what he had said to me with times and dates and even a couple of witness' within the team.
HR investigated the case for several weeks, (during which time I had no work, as they said I could not work with Steve during the investigation, so I had nothing to do for 10 weeks, but still getting paid).
The outcome is that HR are doing nothing and that none of my claims can be upheld. Basically, he lied about everything, saying he didn't speak to me like that and shockingly, my colleagues lied for him as well, saying they never heard anything.
So now I'm in a position where I have no work, and he is refusing to accept meeting invites from me now the investigation is over to try and get some work and basically just move forward.
How can I salvage/repair this situation and co-worker relationship?
Before anyone suggests it, yes my line-manager has a manager of his own, unfortunately they are very good friends outside of work, so I've tried that route with no success.
manager software-development
New contributor
15
I would say "No" as you went straight to HR and not tried to talk and explain problems with Steve directly.
– SZCZERZO KŁY
19 hours ago
6
@SZCZERZOKŁY I did not. I tried to sort it with him and his line manager, but it did not have any effect.
– Cloud
19 hours ago
It's not an answer, but I've seen something simular in another life - it all came down to the receiver (you) not being grateful enough to Steve, for what he's apparently given you. I'm not saying you weren't, but Steve felt you weren't and so ended up regretting it himself.
– djsmiley2k
9 hours ago
@Cloud well, in your question you don't mention any attempts of "sorting it out". In fact, your words "I didn't pick much up this way, but could tell he was trying to teach, so felt bad to say anything" explicitly contradict it.
– IMil
4 hours ago
1
The take-away is most developers, especially good ones, are absolutely the worst at teaching. Good developers have so much intuition in their skill that they have no idea how to teach it to someone else.
– Nelson
3 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
Ok, I'll try to summarise the last several months of my experience in a few paragraphs.
I've been at my company for a little over 18 months. At first I entered as a junior developer, since I only had 2 years experience. After around 6 months, my line-manager (call him Steve), offered me a senior position, as they had interviewed many people for it and had not filled it. I told him I would accept as long as he promised to train me up, as I felt I was not suitably qualified at the time. Until this point, myself, Steve and a couple of the others were all friends, having a good time at work and doing social things outside the office.
Then everything changed. I don't know why, but I think Steve regretted giving me the position. He began speaking to me in unacceptable ways, i.e. swearing, barking orders at me and criticising everything I did, often verging on basically calling me stupid. The training he provided was basically writing code in front of me really fast. I didn't pick much up this way, but could tell he was trying to teach, so felt bad to say anything.
I kept a log of all of this and eventually, after 6 months of it, went to HR. I made a formal complaint about him and submitted details of exactly what he had said to me with times and dates and even a couple of witness' within the team.
HR investigated the case for several weeks, (during which time I had no work, as they said I could not work with Steve during the investigation, so I had nothing to do for 10 weeks, but still getting paid).
The outcome is that HR are doing nothing and that none of my claims can be upheld. Basically, he lied about everything, saying he didn't speak to me like that and shockingly, my colleagues lied for him as well, saying they never heard anything.
So now I'm in a position where I have no work, and he is refusing to accept meeting invites from me now the investigation is over to try and get some work and basically just move forward.
How can I salvage/repair this situation and co-worker relationship?
Before anyone suggests it, yes my line-manager has a manager of his own, unfortunately they are very good friends outside of work, so I've tried that route with no success.
manager software-development
New contributor
Ok, I'll try to summarise the last several months of my experience in a few paragraphs.
I've been at my company for a little over 18 months. At first I entered as a junior developer, since I only had 2 years experience. After around 6 months, my line-manager (call him Steve), offered me a senior position, as they had interviewed many people for it and had not filled it. I told him I would accept as long as he promised to train me up, as I felt I was not suitably qualified at the time. Until this point, myself, Steve and a couple of the others were all friends, having a good time at work and doing social things outside the office.
Then everything changed. I don't know why, but I think Steve regretted giving me the position. He began speaking to me in unacceptable ways, i.e. swearing, barking orders at me and criticising everything I did, often verging on basically calling me stupid. The training he provided was basically writing code in front of me really fast. I didn't pick much up this way, but could tell he was trying to teach, so felt bad to say anything.
I kept a log of all of this and eventually, after 6 months of it, went to HR. I made a formal complaint about him and submitted details of exactly what he had said to me with times and dates and even a couple of witness' within the team.
HR investigated the case for several weeks, (during which time I had no work, as they said I could not work with Steve during the investigation, so I had nothing to do for 10 weeks, but still getting paid).
The outcome is that HR are doing nothing and that none of my claims can be upheld. Basically, he lied about everything, saying he didn't speak to me like that and shockingly, my colleagues lied for him as well, saying they never heard anything.
So now I'm in a position where I have no work, and he is refusing to accept meeting invites from me now the investigation is over to try and get some work and basically just move forward.
How can I salvage/repair this situation and co-worker relationship?
Before anyone suggests it, yes my line-manager has a manager of his own, unfortunately they are very good friends outside of work, so I've tried that route with no success.
manager software-development
manager software-development
New contributor
New contributor
edited 13 hours ago
Community♦
1
1
New contributor
asked 19 hours ago
Cloud
15215
15215
New contributor
New contributor
15
I would say "No" as you went straight to HR and not tried to talk and explain problems with Steve directly.
– SZCZERZO KŁY
19 hours ago
6
@SZCZERZOKŁY I did not. I tried to sort it with him and his line manager, but it did not have any effect.
– Cloud
19 hours ago
It's not an answer, but I've seen something simular in another life - it all came down to the receiver (you) not being grateful enough to Steve, for what he's apparently given you. I'm not saying you weren't, but Steve felt you weren't and so ended up regretting it himself.
– djsmiley2k
9 hours ago
@Cloud well, in your question you don't mention any attempts of "sorting it out". In fact, your words "I didn't pick much up this way, but could tell he was trying to teach, so felt bad to say anything" explicitly contradict it.
– IMil
4 hours ago
1
The take-away is most developers, especially good ones, are absolutely the worst at teaching. Good developers have so much intuition in their skill that they have no idea how to teach it to someone else.
– Nelson
3 hours ago
add a comment |
15
I would say "No" as you went straight to HR and not tried to talk and explain problems with Steve directly.
– SZCZERZO KŁY
19 hours ago
6
@SZCZERZOKŁY I did not. I tried to sort it with him and his line manager, but it did not have any effect.
– Cloud
19 hours ago
It's not an answer, but I've seen something simular in another life - it all came down to the receiver (you) not being grateful enough to Steve, for what he's apparently given you. I'm not saying you weren't, but Steve felt you weren't and so ended up regretting it himself.
– djsmiley2k
9 hours ago
@Cloud well, in your question you don't mention any attempts of "sorting it out". In fact, your words "I didn't pick much up this way, but could tell he was trying to teach, so felt bad to say anything" explicitly contradict it.
– IMil
4 hours ago
1
The take-away is most developers, especially good ones, are absolutely the worst at teaching. Good developers have so much intuition in their skill that they have no idea how to teach it to someone else.
– Nelson
3 hours ago
15
15
I would say "No" as you went straight to HR and not tried to talk and explain problems with Steve directly.
– SZCZERZO KŁY
19 hours ago
I would say "No" as you went straight to HR and not tried to talk and explain problems with Steve directly.
– SZCZERZO KŁY
19 hours ago
6
6
@SZCZERZOKŁY I did not. I tried to sort it with him and his line manager, but it did not have any effect.
– Cloud
19 hours ago
@SZCZERZOKŁY I did not. I tried to sort it with him and his line manager, but it did not have any effect.
– Cloud
19 hours ago
It's not an answer, but I've seen something simular in another life - it all came down to the receiver (you) not being grateful enough to Steve, for what he's apparently given you. I'm not saying you weren't, but Steve felt you weren't and so ended up regretting it himself.
– djsmiley2k
9 hours ago
It's not an answer, but I've seen something simular in another life - it all came down to the receiver (you) not being grateful enough to Steve, for what he's apparently given you. I'm not saying you weren't, but Steve felt you weren't and so ended up regretting it himself.
– djsmiley2k
9 hours ago
@Cloud well, in your question you don't mention any attempts of "sorting it out". In fact, your words "I didn't pick much up this way, but could tell he was trying to teach, so felt bad to say anything" explicitly contradict it.
– IMil
4 hours ago
@Cloud well, in your question you don't mention any attempts of "sorting it out". In fact, your words "I didn't pick much up this way, but could tell he was trying to teach, so felt bad to say anything" explicitly contradict it.
– IMil
4 hours ago
1
1
The take-away is most developers, especially good ones, are absolutely the worst at teaching. Good developers have so much intuition in their skill that they have no idea how to teach it to someone else.
– Nelson
3 hours ago
The take-away is most developers, especially good ones, are absolutely the worst at teaching. Good developers have so much intuition in their skill that they have no idea how to teach it to someone else.
– Nelson
3 hours ago
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
up vote
70
down vote
You launched a formal complaint complete with witnesses and documentation which was investigated for 10 weeks while you were paid for doing nothing, and then your complaints were found to be groundless, even your witnesses did not back you up.
Is this co-worker relationship salvageable?
No. You put multiple people into a difficult position. Things will never return to how they were. More constructive to worry about being forced out altogether. You should have spent the 10 weeks job searching, suggest you get onto that asap.
11
+1. The details of who did what are irrelevant at this point. Chances are Steve could now be refusing meeting invites to set you up for a PIP and then dismissal, and having already gone to HR with one complaint that didn't work out, you're unlikely to be able to fight that internally. Much better to leave on your own accord than be fired.
– berry120
14 hours ago
2
Brief advice is the best kind. No point trying to do the impossible, well you can but you still need to search for a new job.
– goamn
8 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
Then everything changed. I don't know why, but I think Steve regretted
giving me the position.
I'm guessing there's more to this than just a sudden change of attitude. It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why.
How can I salvage/repair this situation and co-worker relationship?
Before anyone suggests it, yes my line-manager has a manager of his
own, unfortunately they are very good friends outside of work, so I've
tried that route with no success.
You could try talking with him and seeing if you can determine why he changed. Perhaps you have something to apologize for here. If so, it would be a good time to do that now. But your relationship may already be beyond the point of repair.
It appears that instead of talking to him directly, you chose to create a 6 month log and then took it to HR as a formal complaint. And apparently, you also went over his head and tried to complain to his boss.
It's not clear why you chose that route first rather than trying to repair the relationship, but what's done is done.
You might need to watch your back now, and start thinking about finding a new job or at least a transfer to work with another manager.
8
"It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why." This doesn't have enough stress. Going to HR should be a last ditch attempt; first port of call should always be talk to the person directly as they it could even just be venting other issues onto you.
– UKMonkey
15 hours ago
1
@UKMonkey Going to HR for interpersonal advice can be sensible depending on where it is and how exactly HR operates. It's the logging of a formal complaint with evidence and witnesses that's always burning bridges.
– Peter
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
Given the limited information here, my conclusion is that you drew the short stick on an internal power play.
Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev. He promoted you to the position knowing you lack the hard skills necessary to do the job, he did not properly train you, and then he used your lack of skills to motivate his decision to not work with you. I don't know what his motives are, but the way you tell the story, it's pretty clear to me he was harassing you so he would get rid of you.
Your failing lays in not realising you were being set up and not taking action in a timely manner. The second Steve started "training" you and you couldn't understand what he was doing is when you should have told (in writing) your manager or Steve's manager that you are not receiving proper training and you cannot be expected to complete your tasks.
Furthermore, Steve's frustration with you grew as he probably saw you are thick skinned and his insults/harassment aren't working.
Your next mistake is taking things up with HR. HR is not there to protect you from Steve's bullying, but to protect the company's interest. It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank. Not that it matters anyway, you are now flagged as a problem employee. Next time someone has to leave, guess whose turn it will be.
A common way to convince an employee to leave is to take away all his usual tasks and replace them with what basically amounts to worthless junk. We had a case in my country where an employee got relegated to shredding paper so she would leave the company. To me it looks like your employer is trying to get rid of you by not giving you tasks and waiting for you to get bored and leave. Or fire you whenever it suits them because you're not being productive or some made-up reason so you won't sue them for unlawful termination.
So in conclusion, Steve won his little game, you are working in a dysfunctional company which is an unfair employer that only cares about Steve and Steve's gang's happiness and is willing to sideline anyone Steve doesn't like. And Steve HATES you.
Your choices are rather limited.
1: You make it up to Steve. Apparently his happiness matters in the company more than facts. Make Steve happy and you'll be back to your old tasks in no time.
2: Realise you are wasting your time in this company and start looking for a new job.
3: Continue in the current situation and wait to become the equivalent of a human paper shredder. Until they find a good reason to fire you.
6
I think that the behaviour of manager Steve has definitely contributed to OP's problems. But a lot of the conclusions that assign motivations and beliefs here seem a little hasty without additional information e.g. "Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev." Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity etc . . . perhaps Steve really fancied himself as a wise old teacher, and coped badly when he realised it wasn't working
– Neil Slater
14 hours ago
1
I concur with this answer. It reads like 'Steve' already decided to get rid of the author before the promotion was made. The real reason will probably never surface.
– Erwin
14 hours ago
"It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank." I think it may be a bit much to claim that without proof. It could be as simple as they did not have evidence to take action against him. Honestly, I can't see HR directly basing a decision off that, especially if OP had it documented well; because then they would be leaving a potentially huge liability. HR probably didn't want to take action against Steve; but I would say that would have been equally influenced by how much evidence OP had.
– JMac
11 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Your manager acted petty (or maybe you did not understand the situation completely but let's assume you are right), but your question is unjustified now. If you wanted to salvage the relation, that should have been your first approach rather than going to HR. By going to HR you made an implicit judgment that the relationship was not salvageable in the first place.
However, even though you could (and should) have picked a better response to your manager's behavior, I don't think it is all only your fault.
It is unfortunate that your colleagues couched when asked formally by HR. Also, it is unfortunate that your manager's manager preferred taking his friend's side rather than taking the right side.
Since the relation is not salvageable unless someone has a sudden change of heart and this guy in question is your manager, the best direction is to get a new job.
It may be bitter tasting but it is the next best thing that can happen to you.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
OP I'm sorry but I think that the "investigation" was basically over in a week. You were given 9 weeks to begin searching for a new job, which you did not take the hint for. I say this because software developers are not a resource that is wasted lightly.
Update your resume and start looking immediately, additionally note how your other coworkers are treating you; you'll need to get references from someone at this company who is not Steve or in the HR hierarchy who have dismissed your claims of harassment.
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
70
down vote
You launched a formal complaint complete with witnesses and documentation which was investigated for 10 weeks while you were paid for doing nothing, and then your complaints were found to be groundless, even your witnesses did not back you up.
Is this co-worker relationship salvageable?
No. You put multiple people into a difficult position. Things will never return to how they were. More constructive to worry about being forced out altogether. You should have spent the 10 weeks job searching, suggest you get onto that asap.
11
+1. The details of who did what are irrelevant at this point. Chances are Steve could now be refusing meeting invites to set you up for a PIP and then dismissal, and having already gone to HR with one complaint that didn't work out, you're unlikely to be able to fight that internally. Much better to leave on your own accord than be fired.
– berry120
14 hours ago
2
Brief advice is the best kind. No point trying to do the impossible, well you can but you still need to search for a new job.
– goamn
8 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
70
down vote
You launched a formal complaint complete with witnesses and documentation which was investigated for 10 weeks while you were paid for doing nothing, and then your complaints were found to be groundless, even your witnesses did not back you up.
Is this co-worker relationship salvageable?
No. You put multiple people into a difficult position. Things will never return to how they were. More constructive to worry about being forced out altogether. You should have spent the 10 weeks job searching, suggest you get onto that asap.
11
+1. The details of who did what are irrelevant at this point. Chances are Steve could now be refusing meeting invites to set you up for a PIP and then dismissal, and having already gone to HR with one complaint that didn't work out, you're unlikely to be able to fight that internally. Much better to leave on your own accord than be fired.
– berry120
14 hours ago
2
Brief advice is the best kind. No point trying to do the impossible, well you can but you still need to search for a new job.
– goamn
8 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
70
down vote
up vote
70
down vote
You launched a formal complaint complete with witnesses and documentation which was investigated for 10 weeks while you were paid for doing nothing, and then your complaints were found to be groundless, even your witnesses did not back you up.
Is this co-worker relationship salvageable?
No. You put multiple people into a difficult position. Things will never return to how they were. More constructive to worry about being forced out altogether. You should have spent the 10 weeks job searching, suggest you get onto that asap.
You launched a formal complaint complete with witnesses and documentation which was investigated for 10 weeks while you were paid for doing nothing, and then your complaints were found to be groundless, even your witnesses did not back you up.
Is this co-worker relationship salvageable?
No. You put multiple people into a difficult position. Things will never return to how they were. More constructive to worry about being forced out altogether. You should have spent the 10 weeks job searching, suggest you get onto that asap.
answered 18 hours ago
Kilisi
108k59242419
108k59242419
11
+1. The details of who did what are irrelevant at this point. Chances are Steve could now be refusing meeting invites to set you up for a PIP and then dismissal, and having already gone to HR with one complaint that didn't work out, you're unlikely to be able to fight that internally. Much better to leave on your own accord than be fired.
– berry120
14 hours ago
2
Brief advice is the best kind. No point trying to do the impossible, well you can but you still need to search for a new job.
– goamn
8 hours ago
add a comment |
11
+1. The details of who did what are irrelevant at this point. Chances are Steve could now be refusing meeting invites to set you up for a PIP and then dismissal, and having already gone to HR with one complaint that didn't work out, you're unlikely to be able to fight that internally. Much better to leave on your own accord than be fired.
– berry120
14 hours ago
2
Brief advice is the best kind. No point trying to do the impossible, well you can but you still need to search for a new job.
– goamn
8 hours ago
11
11
+1. The details of who did what are irrelevant at this point. Chances are Steve could now be refusing meeting invites to set you up for a PIP and then dismissal, and having already gone to HR with one complaint that didn't work out, you're unlikely to be able to fight that internally. Much better to leave on your own accord than be fired.
– berry120
14 hours ago
+1. The details of who did what are irrelevant at this point. Chances are Steve could now be refusing meeting invites to set you up for a PIP and then dismissal, and having already gone to HR with one complaint that didn't work out, you're unlikely to be able to fight that internally. Much better to leave on your own accord than be fired.
– berry120
14 hours ago
2
2
Brief advice is the best kind. No point trying to do the impossible, well you can but you still need to search for a new job.
– goamn
8 hours ago
Brief advice is the best kind. No point trying to do the impossible, well you can but you still need to search for a new job.
– goamn
8 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
Then everything changed. I don't know why, but I think Steve regretted
giving me the position.
I'm guessing there's more to this than just a sudden change of attitude. It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why.
How can I salvage/repair this situation and co-worker relationship?
Before anyone suggests it, yes my line-manager has a manager of his
own, unfortunately they are very good friends outside of work, so I've
tried that route with no success.
You could try talking with him and seeing if you can determine why he changed. Perhaps you have something to apologize for here. If so, it would be a good time to do that now. But your relationship may already be beyond the point of repair.
It appears that instead of talking to him directly, you chose to create a 6 month log and then took it to HR as a formal complaint. And apparently, you also went over his head and tried to complain to his boss.
It's not clear why you chose that route first rather than trying to repair the relationship, but what's done is done.
You might need to watch your back now, and start thinking about finding a new job or at least a transfer to work with another manager.
8
"It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why." This doesn't have enough stress. Going to HR should be a last ditch attempt; first port of call should always be talk to the person directly as they it could even just be venting other issues onto you.
– UKMonkey
15 hours ago
1
@UKMonkey Going to HR for interpersonal advice can be sensible depending on where it is and how exactly HR operates. It's the logging of a formal complaint with evidence and witnesses that's always burning bridges.
– Peter
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
Then everything changed. I don't know why, but I think Steve regretted
giving me the position.
I'm guessing there's more to this than just a sudden change of attitude. It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why.
How can I salvage/repair this situation and co-worker relationship?
Before anyone suggests it, yes my line-manager has a manager of his
own, unfortunately they are very good friends outside of work, so I've
tried that route with no success.
You could try talking with him and seeing if you can determine why he changed. Perhaps you have something to apologize for here. If so, it would be a good time to do that now. But your relationship may already be beyond the point of repair.
It appears that instead of talking to him directly, you chose to create a 6 month log and then took it to HR as a formal complaint. And apparently, you also went over his head and tried to complain to his boss.
It's not clear why you chose that route first rather than trying to repair the relationship, but what's done is done.
You might need to watch your back now, and start thinking about finding a new job or at least a transfer to work with another manager.
8
"It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why." This doesn't have enough stress. Going to HR should be a last ditch attempt; first port of call should always be talk to the person directly as they it could even just be venting other issues onto you.
– UKMonkey
15 hours ago
1
@UKMonkey Going to HR for interpersonal advice can be sensible depending on where it is and how exactly HR operates. It's the logging of a formal complaint with evidence and witnesses that's always burning bridges.
– Peter
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
up vote
18
down vote
Then everything changed. I don't know why, but I think Steve regretted
giving me the position.
I'm guessing there's more to this than just a sudden change of attitude. It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why.
How can I salvage/repair this situation and co-worker relationship?
Before anyone suggests it, yes my line-manager has a manager of his
own, unfortunately they are very good friends outside of work, so I've
tried that route with no success.
You could try talking with him and seeing if you can determine why he changed. Perhaps you have something to apologize for here. If so, it would be a good time to do that now. But your relationship may already be beyond the point of repair.
It appears that instead of talking to him directly, you chose to create a 6 month log and then took it to HR as a formal complaint. And apparently, you also went over his head and tried to complain to his boss.
It's not clear why you chose that route first rather than trying to repair the relationship, but what's done is done.
You might need to watch your back now, and start thinking about finding a new job or at least a transfer to work with another manager.
Then everything changed. I don't know why, but I think Steve regretted
giving me the position.
I'm guessing there's more to this than just a sudden change of attitude. It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why.
How can I salvage/repair this situation and co-worker relationship?
Before anyone suggests it, yes my line-manager has a manager of his
own, unfortunately they are very good friends outside of work, so I've
tried that route with no success.
You could try talking with him and seeing if you can determine why he changed. Perhaps you have something to apologize for here. If so, it would be a good time to do that now. But your relationship may already be beyond the point of repair.
It appears that instead of talking to him directly, you chose to create a 6 month log and then took it to HR as a formal complaint. And apparently, you also went over his head and tried to complain to his boss.
It's not clear why you chose that route first rather than trying to repair the relationship, but what's done is done.
You might need to watch your back now, and start thinking about finding a new job or at least a transfer to work with another manager.
edited 18 hours ago
answered 18 hours ago
Joe Strazzere
237k115694990
237k115694990
8
"It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why." This doesn't have enough stress. Going to HR should be a last ditch attempt; first port of call should always be talk to the person directly as they it could even just be venting other issues onto you.
– UKMonkey
15 hours ago
1
@UKMonkey Going to HR for interpersonal advice can be sensible depending on where it is and how exactly HR operates. It's the logging of a formal complaint with evidence and witnesses that's always burning bridges.
– Peter
6 hours ago
add a comment |
8
"It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why." This doesn't have enough stress. Going to HR should be a last ditch attempt; first port of call should always be talk to the person directly as they it could even just be venting other issues onto you.
– UKMonkey
15 hours ago
1
@UKMonkey Going to HR for interpersonal advice can be sensible depending on where it is and how exactly HR operates. It's the logging of a formal complaint with evidence and witnesses that's always burning bridges.
– Peter
6 hours ago
8
8
"It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why." This doesn't have enough stress. Going to HR should be a last ditch attempt; first port of call should always be talk to the person directly as they it could even just be venting other issues onto you.
– UKMonkey
15 hours ago
"It's unfortunate you didn't talk to Steve to find out why." This doesn't have enough stress. Going to HR should be a last ditch attempt; first port of call should always be talk to the person directly as they it could even just be venting other issues onto you.
– UKMonkey
15 hours ago
1
1
@UKMonkey Going to HR for interpersonal advice can be sensible depending on where it is and how exactly HR operates. It's the logging of a formal complaint with evidence and witnesses that's always burning bridges.
– Peter
6 hours ago
@UKMonkey Going to HR for interpersonal advice can be sensible depending on where it is and how exactly HR operates. It's the logging of a formal complaint with evidence and witnesses that's always burning bridges.
– Peter
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
Given the limited information here, my conclusion is that you drew the short stick on an internal power play.
Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev. He promoted you to the position knowing you lack the hard skills necessary to do the job, he did not properly train you, and then he used your lack of skills to motivate his decision to not work with you. I don't know what his motives are, but the way you tell the story, it's pretty clear to me he was harassing you so he would get rid of you.
Your failing lays in not realising you were being set up and not taking action in a timely manner. The second Steve started "training" you and you couldn't understand what he was doing is when you should have told (in writing) your manager or Steve's manager that you are not receiving proper training and you cannot be expected to complete your tasks.
Furthermore, Steve's frustration with you grew as he probably saw you are thick skinned and his insults/harassment aren't working.
Your next mistake is taking things up with HR. HR is not there to protect you from Steve's bullying, but to protect the company's interest. It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank. Not that it matters anyway, you are now flagged as a problem employee. Next time someone has to leave, guess whose turn it will be.
A common way to convince an employee to leave is to take away all his usual tasks and replace them with what basically amounts to worthless junk. We had a case in my country where an employee got relegated to shredding paper so she would leave the company. To me it looks like your employer is trying to get rid of you by not giving you tasks and waiting for you to get bored and leave. Or fire you whenever it suits them because you're not being productive or some made-up reason so you won't sue them for unlawful termination.
So in conclusion, Steve won his little game, you are working in a dysfunctional company which is an unfair employer that only cares about Steve and Steve's gang's happiness and is willing to sideline anyone Steve doesn't like. And Steve HATES you.
Your choices are rather limited.
1: You make it up to Steve. Apparently his happiness matters in the company more than facts. Make Steve happy and you'll be back to your old tasks in no time.
2: Realise you are wasting your time in this company and start looking for a new job.
3: Continue in the current situation and wait to become the equivalent of a human paper shredder. Until they find a good reason to fire you.
6
I think that the behaviour of manager Steve has definitely contributed to OP's problems. But a lot of the conclusions that assign motivations and beliefs here seem a little hasty without additional information e.g. "Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev." Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity etc . . . perhaps Steve really fancied himself as a wise old teacher, and coped badly when he realised it wasn't working
– Neil Slater
14 hours ago
1
I concur with this answer. It reads like 'Steve' already decided to get rid of the author before the promotion was made. The real reason will probably never surface.
– Erwin
14 hours ago
"It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank." I think it may be a bit much to claim that without proof. It could be as simple as they did not have evidence to take action against him. Honestly, I can't see HR directly basing a decision off that, especially if OP had it documented well; because then they would be leaving a potentially huge liability. HR probably didn't want to take action against Steve; but I would say that would have been equally influenced by how much evidence OP had.
– JMac
11 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
Given the limited information here, my conclusion is that you drew the short stick on an internal power play.
Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev. He promoted you to the position knowing you lack the hard skills necessary to do the job, he did not properly train you, and then he used your lack of skills to motivate his decision to not work with you. I don't know what his motives are, but the way you tell the story, it's pretty clear to me he was harassing you so he would get rid of you.
Your failing lays in not realising you were being set up and not taking action in a timely manner. The second Steve started "training" you and you couldn't understand what he was doing is when you should have told (in writing) your manager or Steve's manager that you are not receiving proper training and you cannot be expected to complete your tasks.
Furthermore, Steve's frustration with you grew as he probably saw you are thick skinned and his insults/harassment aren't working.
Your next mistake is taking things up with HR. HR is not there to protect you from Steve's bullying, but to protect the company's interest. It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank. Not that it matters anyway, you are now flagged as a problem employee. Next time someone has to leave, guess whose turn it will be.
A common way to convince an employee to leave is to take away all his usual tasks and replace them with what basically amounts to worthless junk. We had a case in my country where an employee got relegated to shredding paper so she would leave the company. To me it looks like your employer is trying to get rid of you by not giving you tasks and waiting for you to get bored and leave. Or fire you whenever it suits them because you're not being productive or some made-up reason so you won't sue them for unlawful termination.
So in conclusion, Steve won his little game, you are working in a dysfunctional company which is an unfair employer that only cares about Steve and Steve's gang's happiness and is willing to sideline anyone Steve doesn't like. And Steve HATES you.
Your choices are rather limited.
1: You make it up to Steve. Apparently his happiness matters in the company more than facts. Make Steve happy and you'll be back to your old tasks in no time.
2: Realise you are wasting your time in this company and start looking for a new job.
3: Continue in the current situation and wait to become the equivalent of a human paper shredder. Until they find a good reason to fire you.
6
I think that the behaviour of manager Steve has definitely contributed to OP's problems. But a lot of the conclusions that assign motivations and beliefs here seem a little hasty without additional information e.g. "Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev." Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity etc . . . perhaps Steve really fancied himself as a wise old teacher, and coped badly when he realised it wasn't working
– Neil Slater
14 hours ago
1
I concur with this answer. It reads like 'Steve' already decided to get rid of the author before the promotion was made. The real reason will probably never surface.
– Erwin
14 hours ago
"It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank." I think it may be a bit much to claim that without proof. It could be as simple as they did not have evidence to take action against him. Honestly, I can't see HR directly basing a decision off that, especially if OP had it documented well; because then they would be leaving a potentially huge liability. HR probably didn't want to take action against Steve; but I would say that would have been equally influenced by how much evidence OP had.
– JMac
11 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
Given the limited information here, my conclusion is that you drew the short stick on an internal power play.
Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev. He promoted you to the position knowing you lack the hard skills necessary to do the job, he did not properly train you, and then he used your lack of skills to motivate his decision to not work with you. I don't know what his motives are, but the way you tell the story, it's pretty clear to me he was harassing you so he would get rid of you.
Your failing lays in not realising you were being set up and not taking action in a timely manner. The second Steve started "training" you and you couldn't understand what he was doing is when you should have told (in writing) your manager or Steve's manager that you are not receiving proper training and you cannot be expected to complete your tasks.
Furthermore, Steve's frustration with you grew as he probably saw you are thick skinned and his insults/harassment aren't working.
Your next mistake is taking things up with HR. HR is not there to protect you from Steve's bullying, but to protect the company's interest. It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank. Not that it matters anyway, you are now flagged as a problem employee. Next time someone has to leave, guess whose turn it will be.
A common way to convince an employee to leave is to take away all his usual tasks and replace them with what basically amounts to worthless junk. We had a case in my country where an employee got relegated to shredding paper so she would leave the company. To me it looks like your employer is trying to get rid of you by not giving you tasks and waiting for you to get bored and leave. Or fire you whenever it suits them because you're not being productive or some made-up reason so you won't sue them for unlawful termination.
So in conclusion, Steve won his little game, you are working in a dysfunctional company which is an unfair employer that only cares about Steve and Steve's gang's happiness and is willing to sideline anyone Steve doesn't like. And Steve HATES you.
Your choices are rather limited.
1: You make it up to Steve. Apparently his happiness matters in the company more than facts. Make Steve happy and you'll be back to your old tasks in no time.
2: Realise you are wasting your time in this company and start looking for a new job.
3: Continue in the current situation and wait to become the equivalent of a human paper shredder. Until they find a good reason to fire you.
Given the limited information here, my conclusion is that you drew the short stick on an internal power play.
Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev. He promoted you to the position knowing you lack the hard skills necessary to do the job, he did not properly train you, and then he used your lack of skills to motivate his decision to not work with you. I don't know what his motives are, but the way you tell the story, it's pretty clear to me he was harassing you so he would get rid of you.
Your failing lays in not realising you were being set up and not taking action in a timely manner. The second Steve started "training" you and you couldn't understand what he was doing is when you should have told (in writing) your manager or Steve's manager that you are not receiving proper training and you cannot be expected to complete your tasks.
Furthermore, Steve's frustration with you grew as he probably saw you are thick skinned and his insults/harassment aren't working.
Your next mistake is taking things up with HR. HR is not there to protect you from Steve's bullying, but to protect the company's interest. It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank. Not that it matters anyway, you are now flagged as a problem employee. Next time someone has to leave, guess whose turn it will be.
A common way to convince an employee to leave is to take away all his usual tasks and replace them with what basically amounts to worthless junk. We had a case in my country where an employee got relegated to shredding paper so she would leave the company. To me it looks like your employer is trying to get rid of you by not giving you tasks and waiting for you to get bored and leave. Or fire you whenever it suits them because you're not being productive or some made-up reason so you won't sue them for unlawful termination.
So in conclusion, Steve won his little game, you are working in a dysfunctional company which is an unfair employer that only cares about Steve and Steve's gang's happiness and is willing to sideline anyone Steve doesn't like. And Steve HATES you.
Your choices are rather limited.
1: You make it up to Steve. Apparently his happiness matters in the company more than facts. Make Steve happy and you'll be back to your old tasks in no time.
2: Realise you are wasting your time in this company and start looking for a new job.
3: Continue in the current situation and wait to become the equivalent of a human paper shredder. Until they find a good reason to fire you.
edited 7 hours ago
Kat
2,72321118
2,72321118
answered 17 hours ago
BoboDarph
2,1761315
2,1761315
6
I think that the behaviour of manager Steve has definitely contributed to OP's problems. But a lot of the conclusions that assign motivations and beliefs here seem a little hasty without additional information e.g. "Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev." Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity etc . . . perhaps Steve really fancied himself as a wise old teacher, and coped badly when he realised it wasn't working
– Neil Slater
14 hours ago
1
I concur with this answer. It reads like 'Steve' already decided to get rid of the author before the promotion was made. The real reason will probably never surface.
– Erwin
14 hours ago
"It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank." I think it may be a bit much to claim that without proof. It could be as simple as they did not have evidence to take action against him. Honestly, I can't see HR directly basing a decision off that, especially if OP had it documented well; because then they would be leaving a potentially huge liability. HR probably didn't want to take action against Steve; but I would say that would have been equally influenced by how much evidence OP had.
– JMac
11 hours ago
add a comment |
6
I think that the behaviour of manager Steve has definitely contributed to OP's problems. But a lot of the conclusions that assign motivations and beliefs here seem a little hasty without additional information e.g. "Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev." Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity etc . . . perhaps Steve really fancied himself as a wise old teacher, and coped badly when he realised it wasn't working
– Neil Slater
14 hours ago
1
I concur with this answer. It reads like 'Steve' already decided to get rid of the author before the promotion was made. The real reason will probably never surface.
– Erwin
14 hours ago
"It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank." I think it may be a bit much to claim that without proof. It could be as simple as they did not have evidence to take action against him. Honestly, I can't see HR directly basing a decision off that, especially if OP had it documented well; because then they would be leaving a potentially huge liability. HR probably didn't want to take action against Steve; but I would say that would have been equally influenced by how much evidence OP had.
– JMac
11 hours ago
6
6
I think that the behaviour of manager Steve has definitely contributed to OP's problems. But a lot of the conclusions that assign motivations and beliefs here seem a little hasty without additional information e.g. "Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev." Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity etc . . . perhaps Steve really fancied himself as a wise old teacher, and coped badly when he realised it wasn't working
– Neil Slater
14 hours ago
I think that the behaviour of manager Steve has definitely contributed to OP's problems. But a lot of the conclusions that assign motivations and beliefs here seem a little hasty without additional information e.g. "Steve definitely set you up to fail as a senior dev." Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity etc . . . perhaps Steve really fancied himself as a wise old teacher, and coped badly when he realised it wasn't working
– Neil Slater
14 hours ago
1
1
I concur with this answer. It reads like 'Steve' already decided to get rid of the author before the promotion was made. The real reason will probably never surface.
– Erwin
14 hours ago
I concur with this answer. It reads like 'Steve' already decided to get rid of the author before the promotion was made. The real reason will probably never surface.
– Erwin
14 hours ago
"It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank." I think it may be a bit much to claim that without proof. It could be as simple as they did not have evidence to take action against him. Honestly, I can't see HR directly basing a decision off that, especially if OP had it documented well; because then they would be leaving a potentially huge liability. HR probably didn't want to take action against Steve; but I would say that would have been equally influenced by how much evidence OP had.
– JMac
11 hours ago
"It was HR's conclusion that Steve's work is more important than yours, so their internal investigation came out blank." I think it may be a bit much to claim that without proof. It could be as simple as they did not have evidence to take action against him. Honestly, I can't see HR directly basing a decision off that, especially if OP had it documented well; because then they would be leaving a potentially huge liability. HR probably didn't want to take action against Steve; but I would say that would have been equally influenced by how much evidence OP had.
– JMac
11 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Your manager acted petty (or maybe you did not understand the situation completely but let's assume you are right), but your question is unjustified now. If you wanted to salvage the relation, that should have been your first approach rather than going to HR. By going to HR you made an implicit judgment that the relationship was not salvageable in the first place.
However, even though you could (and should) have picked a better response to your manager's behavior, I don't think it is all only your fault.
It is unfortunate that your colleagues couched when asked formally by HR. Also, it is unfortunate that your manager's manager preferred taking his friend's side rather than taking the right side.
Since the relation is not salvageable unless someone has a sudden change of heart and this guy in question is your manager, the best direction is to get a new job.
It may be bitter tasting but it is the next best thing that can happen to you.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Your manager acted petty (or maybe you did not understand the situation completely but let's assume you are right), but your question is unjustified now. If you wanted to salvage the relation, that should have been your first approach rather than going to HR. By going to HR you made an implicit judgment that the relationship was not salvageable in the first place.
However, even though you could (and should) have picked a better response to your manager's behavior, I don't think it is all only your fault.
It is unfortunate that your colleagues couched when asked formally by HR. Also, it is unfortunate that your manager's manager preferred taking his friend's side rather than taking the right side.
Since the relation is not salvageable unless someone has a sudden change of heart and this guy in question is your manager, the best direction is to get a new job.
It may be bitter tasting but it is the next best thing that can happen to you.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Your manager acted petty (or maybe you did not understand the situation completely but let's assume you are right), but your question is unjustified now. If you wanted to salvage the relation, that should have been your first approach rather than going to HR. By going to HR you made an implicit judgment that the relationship was not salvageable in the first place.
However, even though you could (and should) have picked a better response to your manager's behavior, I don't think it is all only your fault.
It is unfortunate that your colleagues couched when asked formally by HR. Also, it is unfortunate that your manager's manager preferred taking his friend's side rather than taking the right side.
Since the relation is not salvageable unless someone has a sudden change of heart and this guy in question is your manager, the best direction is to get a new job.
It may be bitter tasting but it is the next best thing that can happen to you.
Your manager acted petty (or maybe you did not understand the situation completely but let's assume you are right), but your question is unjustified now. If you wanted to salvage the relation, that should have been your first approach rather than going to HR. By going to HR you made an implicit judgment that the relationship was not salvageable in the first place.
However, even though you could (and should) have picked a better response to your manager's behavior, I don't think it is all only your fault.
It is unfortunate that your colleagues couched when asked formally by HR. Also, it is unfortunate that your manager's manager preferred taking his friend's side rather than taking the right side.
Since the relation is not salvageable unless someone has a sudden change of heart and this guy in question is your manager, the best direction is to get a new job.
It may be bitter tasting but it is the next best thing that can happen to you.
answered 9 hours ago
displayName
1365
1365
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
OP I'm sorry but I think that the "investigation" was basically over in a week. You were given 9 weeks to begin searching for a new job, which you did not take the hint for. I say this because software developers are not a resource that is wasted lightly.
Update your resume and start looking immediately, additionally note how your other coworkers are treating you; you'll need to get references from someone at this company who is not Steve or in the HR hierarchy who have dismissed your claims of harassment.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
OP I'm sorry but I think that the "investigation" was basically over in a week. You were given 9 weeks to begin searching for a new job, which you did not take the hint for. I say this because software developers are not a resource that is wasted lightly.
Update your resume and start looking immediately, additionally note how your other coworkers are treating you; you'll need to get references from someone at this company who is not Steve or in the HR hierarchy who have dismissed your claims of harassment.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
OP I'm sorry but I think that the "investigation" was basically over in a week. You were given 9 weeks to begin searching for a new job, which you did not take the hint for. I say this because software developers are not a resource that is wasted lightly.
Update your resume and start looking immediately, additionally note how your other coworkers are treating you; you'll need to get references from someone at this company who is not Steve or in the HR hierarchy who have dismissed your claims of harassment.
OP I'm sorry but I think that the "investigation" was basically over in a week. You were given 9 weeks to begin searching for a new job, which you did not take the hint for. I say this because software developers are not a resource that is wasted lightly.
Update your resume and start looking immediately, additionally note how your other coworkers are treating you; you'll need to get references from someone at this company who is not Steve or in the HR hierarchy who have dismissed your claims of harassment.
edited 4 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
C Bauer
475212
475212
add a comment |
add a comment |
Cloud is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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15
I would say "No" as you went straight to HR and not tried to talk and explain problems with Steve directly.
– SZCZERZO KŁY
19 hours ago
6
@SZCZERZOKŁY I did not. I tried to sort it with him and his line manager, but it did not have any effect.
– Cloud
19 hours ago
It's not an answer, but I've seen something simular in another life - it all came down to the receiver (you) not being grateful enough to Steve, for what he's apparently given you. I'm not saying you weren't, but Steve felt you weren't and so ended up regretting it himself.
– djsmiley2k
9 hours ago
@Cloud well, in your question you don't mention any attempts of "sorting it out". In fact, your words "I didn't pick much up this way, but could tell he was trying to teach, so felt bad to say anything" explicitly contradict it.
– IMil
4 hours ago
1
The take-away is most developers, especially good ones, are absolutely the worst at teaching. Good developers have so much intuition in their skill that they have no idea how to teach it to someone else.
– Nelson
3 hours ago