Minimum distance between polynomials in ring-LWE











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Let $R_q=mathbb{Z}_q[x]/langle f(x)rangle$ where $f(x)=x^n+1$, as in the ring-LWE problem.



Let $a(x)$ be chosen uniformly at random from $R_q$.



Question: Is there any theorem that lower bounds the distance between any two polynomials of the form $a(x)s_1(s)$ and $a(x)s_2(x)$?



In other words, what is the value of $d$ such that $$||a(x)s_1(x)-a(x)s_2(x)||geq d$$ except with negligible probability, for any two polynomials $s_1(x),s_2(x)in R_q$ and where $||cdot||$ is the usual $L_2$ norm?










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  • Hello. It is a good question, but the $L_2$ norm is defined over vectors and it is not clear how you are embedding the polynomials in a vector space. Are you just representing the polynomials as vectors with their coefficients? (So, for instance, $2x^3 -1$ becomes the vector $(2, 0, 0, -1)$).
    – Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
    9 hours ago










  • Yes, I am thinking of the canonical embedding
    – P.B.
    9 hours ago










  • I found some relative concept in your question and AG codes, I suspect the minimum distance for a Goppa code is a simple answer for your question. The minimum distance for Goppa codes is $d_{min}=n-k-gamma-1$. $gamma$ is the genus of the algebraic curve. We can easily find it for RS codes that the curve is a line and the genus is equal to zero so the minimum distance for them is $d_{min}=n-k-1$.
    – Mahdi Sedaghat
    9 hours ago










  • Well, the canonical embedding is the one that uses isomorphisms to embed the polynomials. The one I've described is the coefficient embedding...
    – Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
    9 hours ago












  • Sorry. I mean the coefficient embedding then
    – P.B.
    8 hours ago















up vote
4
down vote

favorite
1












Let $R_q=mathbb{Z}_q[x]/langle f(x)rangle$ where $f(x)=x^n+1$, as in the ring-LWE problem.



Let $a(x)$ be chosen uniformly at random from $R_q$.



Question: Is there any theorem that lower bounds the distance between any two polynomials of the form $a(x)s_1(s)$ and $a(x)s_2(x)$?



In other words, what is the value of $d$ such that $$||a(x)s_1(x)-a(x)s_2(x)||geq d$$ except with negligible probability, for any two polynomials $s_1(x),s_2(x)in R_q$ and where $||cdot||$ is the usual $L_2$ norm?










share|improve this question






















  • Hello. It is a good question, but the $L_2$ norm is defined over vectors and it is not clear how you are embedding the polynomials in a vector space. Are you just representing the polynomials as vectors with their coefficients? (So, for instance, $2x^3 -1$ becomes the vector $(2, 0, 0, -1)$).
    – Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
    9 hours ago










  • Yes, I am thinking of the canonical embedding
    – P.B.
    9 hours ago










  • I found some relative concept in your question and AG codes, I suspect the minimum distance for a Goppa code is a simple answer for your question. The minimum distance for Goppa codes is $d_{min}=n-k-gamma-1$. $gamma$ is the genus of the algebraic curve. We can easily find it for RS codes that the curve is a line and the genus is equal to zero so the minimum distance for them is $d_{min}=n-k-1$.
    – Mahdi Sedaghat
    9 hours ago










  • Well, the canonical embedding is the one that uses isomorphisms to embed the polynomials. The one I've described is the coefficient embedding...
    – Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
    9 hours ago












  • Sorry. I mean the coefficient embedding then
    – P.B.
    8 hours ago













up vote
4
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
4
down vote

favorite
1






1





Let $R_q=mathbb{Z}_q[x]/langle f(x)rangle$ where $f(x)=x^n+1$, as in the ring-LWE problem.



Let $a(x)$ be chosen uniformly at random from $R_q$.



Question: Is there any theorem that lower bounds the distance between any two polynomials of the form $a(x)s_1(s)$ and $a(x)s_2(x)$?



In other words, what is the value of $d$ such that $$||a(x)s_1(x)-a(x)s_2(x)||geq d$$ except with negligible probability, for any two polynomials $s_1(x),s_2(x)in R_q$ and where $||cdot||$ is the usual $L_2$ norm?










share|improve this question













Let $R_q=mathbb{Z}_q[x]/langle f(x)rangle$ where $f(x)=x^n+1$, as in the ring-LWE problem.



Let $a(x)$ be chosen uniformly at random from $R_q$.



Question: Is there any theorem that lower bounds the distance between any two polynomials of the form $a(x)s_1(s)$ and $a(x)s_2(x)$?



In other words, what is the value of $d$ such that $$||a(x)s_1(x)-a(x)s_2(x)||geq d$$ except with negligible probability, for any two polynomials $s_1(x),s_2(x)in R_q$ and where $||cdot||$ is the usual $L_2$ norm?







lattice-crypto lwe ring-lwe






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asked 10 hours ago









P.B.

1356




1356












  • Hello. It is a good question, but the $L_2$ norm is defined over vectors and it is not clear how you are embedding the polynomials in a vector space. Are you just representing the polynomials as vectors with their coefficients? (So, for instance, $2x^3 -1$ becomes the vector $(2, 0, 0, -1)$).
    – Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
    9 hours ago










  • Yes, I am thinking of the canonical embedding
    – P.B.
    9 hours ago










  • I found some relative concept in your question and AG codes, I suspect the minimum distance for a Goppa code is a simple answer for your question. The minimum distance for Goppa codes is $d_{min}=n-k-gamma-1$. $gamma$ is the genus of the algebraic curve. We can easily find it for RS codes that the curve is a line and the genus is equal to zero so the minimum distance for them is $d_{min}=n-k-1$.
    – Mahdi Sedaghat
    9 hours ago










  • Well, the canonical embedding is the one that uses isomorphisms to embed the polynomials. The one I've described is the coefficient embedding...
    – Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
    9 hours ago












  • Sorry. I mean the coefficient embedding then
    – P.B.
    8 hours ago


















  • Hello. It is a good question, but the $L_2$ norm is defined over vectors and it is not clear how you are embedding the polynomials in a vector space. Are you just representing the polynomials as vectors with their coefficients? (So, for instance, $2x^3 -1$ becomes the vector $(2, 0, 0, -1)$).
    – Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
    9 hours ago










  • Yes, I am thinking of the canonical embedding
    – P.B.
    9 hours ago










  • I found some relative concept in your question and AG codes, I suspect the minimum distance for a Goppa code is a simple answer for your question. The minimum distance for Goppa codes is $d_{min}=n-k-gamma-1$. $gamma$ is the genus of the algebraic curve. We can easily find it for RS codes that the curve is a line and the genus is equal to zero so the minimum distance for them is $d_{min}=n-k-1$.
    – Mahdi Sedaghat
    9 hours ago










  • Well, the canonical embedding is the one that uses isomorphisms to embed the polynomials. The one I've described is the coefficient embedding...
    – Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
    9 hours ago












  • Sorry. I mean the coefficient embedding then
    – P.B.
    8 hours ago
















Hello. It is a good question, but the $L_2$ norm is defined over vectors and it is not clear how you are embedding the polynomials in a vector space. Are you just representing the polynomials as vectors with their coefficients? (So, for instance, $2x^3 -1$ becomes the vector $(2, 0, 0, -1)$).
– Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
9 hours ago




Hello. It is a good question, but the $L_2$ norm is defined over vectors and it is not clear how you are embedding the polynomials in a vector space. Are you just representing the polynomials as vectors with their coefficients? (So, for instance, $2x^3 -1$ becomes the vector $(2, 0, 0, -1)$).
– Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
9 hours ago












Yes, I am thinking of the canonical embedding
– P.B.
9 hours ago




Yes, I am thinking of the canonical embedding
– P.B.
9 hours ago












I found some relative concept in your question and AG codes, I suspect the minimum distance for a Goppa code is a simple answer for your question. The minimum distance for Goppa codes is $d_{min}=n-k-gamma-1$. $gamma$ is the genus of the algebraic curve. We can easily find it for RS codes that the curve is a line and the genus is equal to zero so the minimum distance for them is $d_{min}=n-k-1$.
– Mahdi Sedaghat
9 hours ago




I found some relative concept in your question and AG codes, I suspect the minimum distance for a Goppa code is a simple answer for your question. The minimum distance for Goppa codes is $d_{min}=n-k-gamma-1$. $gamma$ is the genus of the algebraic curve. We can easily find it for RS codes that the curve is a line and the genus is equal to zero so the minimum distance for them is $d_{min}=n-k-1$.
– Mahdi Sedaghat
9 hours ago












Well, the canonical embedding is the one that uses isomorphisms to embed the polynomials. The one I've described is the coefficient embedding...
– Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
9 hours ago






Well, the canonical embedding is the one that uses isomorphisms to embed the polynomials. The one I've described is the coefficient embedding...
– Hilder Vitor Lima Pereira
9 hours ago














Sorry. I mean the coefficient embedding then
– P.B.
8 hours ago




Sorry. I mean the coefficient embedding then
– P.B.
8 hours ago










1 Answer
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I'm assuming $n$ is a power of $2$ and that $q$ is an odd prime larger than $n$. I'm discarding the trivial case $s_1 = s_2$.



If you consider everything $mod q$, then it is most likely over the choice of $a$ that there exists $s_1 neq s_2$ such that $|a s_1 - a s_2| = sqrt{n}$. Indeed, $a$ is invertible in $R_q$ with probability about $1 - n/q$. Take $s_2 = s_1 - a^{-1}$, then you have $a s_1 - a s_2 = 1 mod q$ and the embedding norm of $1$ is $sqrt{n}$.



If you do not consider this $mod q$, i.e. you work in $R=mathbb Z[x]/⟨f(x)⟩$, then you are precisely asking for the minimal distance $lambda_1(mathfrak I)$ of the ideal lattice $mathfrak I$ generated by $a$. For such an ideal lattice, we can estimate rather precisely this minimal distance. A simple lower bound is
$lambda_1(mathfrak I) geq Delta_K^{1/2n} cdot N(a)^{1/n}$, where $N$ denotes the algebraic norm of $a$ (that is, the product of all its embeddings), and $Delta_K$ is the discriminant of field $K = mathbb Q(x)/(x^n+1)$. The reason is that the minimal vector $x$ must generate a subideal of $mathfrak I$, so $N(x) geq N(a)$, and $|x|^n geq Delta_K^{1/2} N(x)$. An upper bound is also given by Minkowski's theorem.






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  • Shouldn't the embedding norm of 1 be 1?
    – P.B.
    2 hours ago











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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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active

oldest

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active

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active

oldest

votes








up vote
2
down vote













I'm assuming $n$ is a power of $2$ and that $q$ is an odd prime larger than $n$. I'm discarding the trivial case $s_1 = s_2$.



If you consider everything $mod q$, then it is most likely over the choice of $a$ that there exists $s_1 neq s_2$ such that $|a s_1 - a s_2| = sqrt{n}$. Indeed, $a$ is invertible in $R_q$ with probability about $1 - n/q$. Take $s_2 = s_1 - a^{-1}$, then you have $a s_1 - a s_2 = 1 mod q$ and the embedding norm of $1$ is $sqrt{n}$.



If you do not consider this $mod q$, i.e. you work in $R=mathbb Z[x]/⟨f(x)⟩$, then you are precisely asking for the minimal distance $lambda_1(mathfrak I)$ of the ideal lattice $mathfrak I$ generated by $a$. For such an ideal lattice, we can estimate rather precisely this minimal distance. A simple lower bound is
$lambda_1(mathfrak I) geq Delta_K^{1/2n} cdot N(a)^{1/n}$, where $N$ denotes the algebraic norm of $a$ (that is, the product of all its embeddings), and $Delta_K$ is the discriminant of field $K = mathbb Q(x)/(x^n+1)$. The reason is that the minimal vector $x$ must generate a subideal of $mathfrak I$, so $N(x) geq N(a)$, and $|x|^n geq Delta_K^{1/2} N(x)$. An upper bound is also given by Minkowski's theorem.






share|improve this answer























  • Shouldn't the embedding norm of 1 be 1?
    – P.B.
    2 hours ago















up vote
2
down vote













I'm assuming $n$ is a power of $2$ and that $q$ is an odd prime larger than $n$. I'm discarding the trivial case $s_1 = s_2$.



If you consider everything $mod q$, then it is most likely over the choice of $a$ that there exists $s_1 neq s_2$ such that $|a s_1 - a s_2| = sqrt{n}$. Indeed, $a$ is invertible in $R_q$ with probability about $1 - n/q$. Take $s_2 = s_1 - a^{-1}$, then you have $a s_1 - a s_2 = 1 mod q$ and the embedding norm of $1$ is $sqrt{n}$.



If you do not consider this $mod q$, i.e. you work in $R=mathbb Z[x]/⟨f(x)⟩$, then you are precisely asking for the minimal distance $lambda_1(mathfrak I)$ of the ideal lattice $mathfrak I$ generated by $a$. For such an ideal lattice, we can estimate rather precisely this minimal distance. A simple lower bound is
$lambda_1(mathfrak I) geq Delta_K^{1/2n} cdot N(a)^{1/n}$, where $N$ denotes the algebraic norm of $a$ (that is, the product of all its embeddings), and $Delta_K$ is the discriminant of field $K = mathbb Q(x)/(x^n+1)$. The reason is that the minimal vector $x$ must generate a subideal of $mathfrak I$, so $N(x) geq N(a)$, and $|x|^n geq Delta_K^{1/2} N(x)$. An upper bound is also given by Minkowski's theorem.






share|improve this answer























  • Shouldn't the embedding norm of 1 be 1?
    – P.B.
    2 hours ago













up vote
2
down vote










up vote
2
down vote









I'm assuming $n$ is a power of $2$ and that $q$ is an odd prime larger than $n$. I'm discarding the trivial case $s_1 = s_2$.



If you consider everything $mod q$, then it is most likely over the choice of $a$ that there exists $s_1 neq s_2$ such that $|a s_1 - a s_2| = sqrt{n}$. Indeed, $a$ is invertible in $R_q$ with probability about $1 - n/q$. Take $s_2 = s_1 - a^{-1}$, then you have $a s_1 - a s_2 = 1 mod q$ and the embedding norm of $1$ is $sqrt{n}$.



If you do not consider this $mod q$, i.e. you work in $R=mathbb Z[x]/⟨f(x)⟩$, then you are precisely asking for the minimal distance $lambda_1(mathfrak I)$ of the ideal lattice $mathfrak I$ generated by $a$. For such an ideal lattice, we can estimate rather precisely this minimal distance. A simple lower bound is
$lambda_1(mathfrak I) geq Delta_K^{1/2n} cdot N(a)^{1/n}$, where $N$ denotes the algebraic norm of $a$ (that is, the product of all its embeddings), and $Delta_K$ is the discriminant of field $K = mathbb Q(x)/(x^n+1)$. The reason is that the minimal vector $x$ must generate a subideal of $mathfrak I$, so $N(x) geq N(a)$, and $|x|^n geq Delta_K^{1/2} N(x)$. An upper bound is also given by Minkowski's theorem.






share|improve this answer














I'm assuming $n$ is a power of $2$ and that $q$ is an odd prime larger than $n$. I'm discarding the trivial case $s_1 = s_2$.



If you consider everything $mod q$, then it is most likely over the choice of $a$ that there exists $s_1 neq s_2$ such that $|a s_1 - a s_2| = sqrt{n}$. Indeed, $a$ is invertible in $R_q$ with probability about $1 - n/q$. Take $s_2 = s_1 - a^{-1}$, then you have $a s_1 - a s_2 = 1 mod q$ and the embedding norm of $1$ is $sqrt{n}$.



If you do not consider this $mod q$, i.e. you work in $R=mathbb Z[x]/⟨f(x)⟩$, then you are precisely asking for the minimal distance $lambda_1(mathfrak I)$ of the ideal lattice $mathfrak I$ generated by $a$. For such an ideal lattice, we can estimate rather precisely this minimal distance. A simple lower bound is
$lambda_1(mathfrak I) geq Delta_K^{1/2n} cdot N(a)^{1/n}$, where $N$ denotes the algebraic norm of $a$ (that is, the product of all its embeddings), and $Delta_K$ is the discriminant of field $K = mathbb Q(x)/(x^n+1)$. The reason is that the minimal vector $x$ must generate a subideal of $mathfrak I$, so $N(x) geq N(a)$, and $|x|^n geq Delta_K^{1/2} N(x)$. An upper bound is also given by Minkowski's theorem.







share|improve this answer














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edited 4 hours ago









Ella Rose

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answered 5 hours ago









LeoDucas

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  • Shouldn't the embedding norm of 1 be 1?
    – P.B.
    2 hours ago


















  • Shouldn't the embedding norm of 1 be 1?
    – P.B.
    2 hours ago
















Shouldn't the embedding norm of 1 be 1?
– P.B.
2 hours ago




Shouldn't the embedding norm of 1 be 1?
– P.B.
2 hours ago


















 

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