Do scales need to be in alphabetical order?












2















If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.










share|improve this question

























  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    4 hours ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    3 hours ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

    – Tim
    3 hours ago
















2















If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.










share|improve this question

























  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    4 hours ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    3 hours ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

    – Tim
    3 hours ago














2












2








2








If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.










share|improve this question
















If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.







theory scales






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 3 hours ago







foreyez

















asked 5 hours ago









foreyezforeyez

5,29332586




5,29332586













  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    4 hours ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    3 hours ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

    – Tim
    3 hours ago



















  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    4 hours ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    3 hours ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

    – Tim
    3 hours ago

















Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

– Michael Curtis
4 hours ago





Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

– Michael Curtis
4 hours ago













@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

– foreyez
3 hours ago





@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

– foreyez
3 hours ago













I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

– Tim
3 hours ago





I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

– Tim
3 hours ago




1




1





@Tim what's the issue I can edit it

– foreyez
3 hours ago





@Tim what's the issue I can edit it

– foreyez
3 hours ago




1




1





You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

– Tim
3 hours ago





You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

– Tim
3 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















7














Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






share|improve this answer































    3














    This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



    So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

      – Basstickler
      5 hours ago











    • I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.

      – Lars Peter Schultz
      2 hours ago



















    2














    As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



    But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.






    share|improve this answer
























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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      7














      Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



      For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






      share|improve this answer




























        7














        Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



        For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






        share|improve this answer


























          7












          7








          7







          Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



          For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






          share|improve this answer













          Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



          For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 5 hours ago









          PeterPeter

          2,905521




          2,905521























              3














              This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



              So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






              share|improve this answer



















              • 1





                Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

                – Basstickler
                5 hours ago











              • I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.

                – Lars Peter Schultz
                2 hours ago
















              3














              This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



              So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






              share|improve this answer



















              • 1





                Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

                – Basstickler
                5 hours ago











              • I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.

                – Lars Peter Schultz
                2 hours ago














              3












              3








              3







              This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



              So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






              share|improve this answer













              This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



              So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 5 hours ago









              BassticklerBasstickler

              6,2791036




              6,2791036








              • 1





                Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

                – Basstickler
                5 hours ago











              • I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.

                – Lars Peter Schultz
                2 hours ago














              • 1





                Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

                – Basstickler
                5 hours ago











              • I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.

                – Lars Peter Schultz
                2 hours ago








              1




              1





              Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

              – Basstickler
              5 hours ago





              Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

              – Basstickler
              5 hours ago













              I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.

              – Lars Peter Schultz
              2 hours ago





              I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.

              – Lars Peter Schultz
              2 hours ago











              2














              As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



              But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.






              share|improve this answer




























                2














                As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



                But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.






                share|improve this answer


























                  2












                  2








                  2







                  As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



                  But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.






                  share|improve this answer













                  As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



                  But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 3 hours ago









                  TimTim

                  104k10107262




                  104k10107262






























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