Do scales need to be in alphabetical order?
If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.
also..
no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.
no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.
no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.
Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)
So the scale of C minor:
C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭
The scale of F# major:
F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#
So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.
theory scales
|
show 2 more comments
If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.
also..
no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.
no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.
no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.
Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)
So the scale of C minor:
C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭
The scale of F# major:
F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#
So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.
theory scales
Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?
– Michael Curtis
4 hours ago
@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.
– foreyez
3 hours ago
I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.
– Tim
3 hours ago
1
@Tim what's the issue I can edit it
– foreyez
3 hours ago
1
You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.
– Tim
3 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.
also..
no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.
no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.
no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.
Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)
So the scale of C minor:
C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭
The scale of F# major:
F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#
So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.
theory scales
If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.
also..
no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.
no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.
no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.
Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)
So the scale of C minor:
C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭
The scale of F# major:
F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#
So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.
theory scales
theory scales
edited 3 hours ago
foreyez
asked 5 hours ago
foreyezforeyez
5,29332586
5,29332586
Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?
– Michael Curtis
4 hours ago
@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.
– foreyez
3 hours ago
I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.
– Tim
3 hours ago
1
@Tim what's the issue I can edit it
– foreyez
3 hours ago
1
You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.
– Tim
3 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?
– Michael Curtis
4 hours ago
@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.
– foreyez
3 hours ago
I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.
– Tim
3 hours ago
1
@Tim what's the issue I can edit it
– foreyez
3 hours ago
1
You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.
– Tim
3 hours ago
Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?
– Michael Curtis
4 hours ago
Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?
– Michael Curtis
4 hours ago
@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.
– foreyez
3 hours ago
@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.
– foreyez
3 hours ago
I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.
– Tim
3 hours ago
I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.
– Tim
3 hours ago
1
1
@Tim what's the issue I can edit it
– foreyez
3 hours ago
@Tim what's the issue I can edit it
– foreyez
3 hours ago
1
1
You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.
– Tim
3 hours ago
You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.
– Tim
3 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.
For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.
add a comment |
This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.
So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.
1
Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.
– Basstickler
5 hours ago
I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.
– Lars Peter Schultz
2 hours ago
add a comment |
As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.
But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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active
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votes
Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.
For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.
add a comment |
Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.
For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.
add a comment |
Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.
For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.
Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.
For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.
answered 5 hours ago
PeterPeter
2,905521
2,905521
add a comment |
add a comment |
This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.
So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.
1
Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.
– Basstickler
5 hours ago
I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.
– Lars Peter Schultz
2 hours ago
add a comment |
This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.
So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.
1
Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.
– Basstickler
5 hours ago
I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.
– Lars Peter Schultz
2 hours ago
add a comment |
This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.
So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.
This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.
So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.
answered 5 hours ago
BassticklerBasstickler
6,2791036
6,2791036
1
Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.
– Basstickler
5 hours ago
I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.
– Lars Peter Schultz
2 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.
– Basstickler
5 hours ago
I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.
– Lars Peter Schultz
2 hours ago
1
1
Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.
– Basstickler
5 hours ago
Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.
– Basstickler
5 hours ago
I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.
– Lars Peter Schultz
2 hours ago
I would say that a scale does need to be a series of notes in alphabetical order, because the term "scale" literally means "ladder", you go from one step to the next which is similar to the alphabetical order of notes. If you break that order the term "scale" doesn't really apply.
– Lars Peter Schultz
2 hours ago
add a comment |
As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.
But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.
add a comment |
As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.
But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.
add a comment |
As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.
But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.
As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.
But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.
answered 3 hours ago
TimTim
104k10107262
104k10107262
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?
– Michael Curtis
4 hours ago
@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.
– foreyez
3 hours ago
I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.
– Tim
3 hours ago
1
@Tim what's the issue I can edit it
– foreyez
3 hours ago
1
You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.
– Tim
3 hours ago