GCD in arbitrary domain
$begingroup$
Is there a domain where computing GCD of two elements is not trivial (i.e. Euclid's algorithm will not work)? AFAIK we can always use the Euclid's algorithm in a Euclidean Domain.
abstract-algebra commutative-algebra greatest-common-divisor euclidean-algorithm euclidean-domain
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is there a domain where computing GCD of two elements is not trivial (i.e. Euclid's algorithm will not work)? AFAIK we can always use the Euclid's algorithm in a Euclidean Domain.
abstract-algebra commutative-algebra greatest-common-divisor euclidean-algorithm euclidean-domain
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
A related question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1040330/…
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:26
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is there a domain where computing GCD of two elements is not trivial (i.e. Euclid's algorithm will not work)? AFAIK we can always use the Euclid's algorithm in a Euclidean Domain.
abstract-algebra commutative-algebra greatest-common-divisor euclidean-algorithm euclidean-domain
$endgroup$
Is there a domain where computing GCD of two elements is not trivial (i.e. Euclid's algorithm will not work)? AFAIK we can always use the Euclid's algorithm in a Euclidean Domain.
abstract-algebra commutative-algebra greatest-common-divisor euclidean-algorithm euclidean-domain
abstract-algebra commutative-algebra greatest-common-divisor euclidean-algorithm euclidean-domain
edited Oct 4 '18 at 12:05
Ben Blum-Smith
10.3k23087
10.3k23087
asked Oct 4 '18 at 12:02
Ativ JoshiAtiv Joshi
776
776
$begingroup$
A related question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1040330/…
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:26
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A related question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1040330/…
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:26
$begingroup$
A related question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1040330/…
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:26
$begingroup$
A related question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1040330/…
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:26
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
SOME EXAMPLES OF PRINCIPAL IDEAL DOMAINS WHICH ARE NOT EUCLIDEAN AND
SOME OTHER COUNTEREXAMPLES.
Abstract. It is well known that every Euclidean ring is a principal
ideal ring. It is also known for a very long time that the converse is
not valid. Counterexamples exist under the rings $R$ of integral
algebraic numbers in quadratic complex fields $Q[sqrt{D}]$ for $D =19, 43,67$, and $163$.
http://www.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/EMIS/journals/NSJOM/Papers/38_1/NSJOM_38_1_137_154.pdf
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Well, the Euclidean algorithm may not work in the integral domain ${Bbb Z}[x]$, since in order to form the division of $f$ by $g$, the divisor $g$ need to be monic (or more generally, the leading coefficient must be invertible, here $pm 1$).
Moreover, the gcd of $2$ and $x$ is 1, but has no representation $$2a+xb=1$$ for some $a,b$. The reason is that the polynomial on the left-hand side has constant coefficient divisible by 2.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. ${Bbb Z}[x]$ is a trivial domain that I missed. Can you give an example of a domain which has finite elements?
$endgroup$
– Ativ Joshi
Oct 4 '18 at 12:16
3
$begingroup$
@AtivJoshi Every finite integral dpmain is a field.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
Oct 4 '18 at 12:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
At least in quadratic integer rings with unique factorization, if the Euclidean algorithm doesn't work, you can always just look at the prime factorization.
For example, of the infinitely many imaginary quadratic integer rings, only nine have unique factorization, and of those nine, only five are Euclidean.
In an answer to What is a concrete example to demonstrate that $mathcal{O}_{mathbb{Q}(sqrt{-19})}$ is NOT a norm-Euclidean domain? I gave the example of $$gcdleft(frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}, 10right),$$ which by prime factorization of norms we can already tell is equal to 1.
But to try to do it by the Euclidean algorithm, we immediately run into trouble: $$frac{10}{frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}} = frac{15}{7} - frac{5 sqrt{-19}}{7}.$$
Rounding "down" (that is, towards 0), we get $$frac{5}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2},$$ but then $$10 = left(frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right)left(frac{5}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right) + left(frac{3}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right).$$ Almost as frustrating as some examples in non-UFDs.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
AFAIK we can always use the Euclid's algorithm in a Euclidean Domain.
Well, yeah, that is kind of the definition. Surely then you know about non-Euclidean domains. The Euclidean algorithm will not work on those.
Do you know about the domain $mathbb{Z}[sqrt{-5}]$, consisting of numbers of the form $a + b sqrt{-5}$, where $a$ and $b in mathbb{Z}$? Sorry to give such a hackneyed example, but try to compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$. The Euclidean function is $a^2 + 5b^2$. Good luck. Mwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
That's not a particularly evil example: $1$ is a gcd.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Oct 15 '18 at 22:00
3
$begingroup$
@Arturo So what are the Euclidean steps in which the norm of the remainder is always less than the norm of the divisor? e.g., $1 + sqrt{-5} = 2m + r$, with $r < 4$?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:20
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin It's not the only potential choice, but it is the one the answerer gave. Sure, you can contrive a function $f(n)$ such that the $r$ in $2m + r$ or $(1 + sqrt{-5})m + r$ satisfies $f(r) < f(2)$ or $f(r) < f(1 + sqrt{-5})$, but can you contrive a function that will enable the Euclidean algorithm for any pair of numbers in this domain?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 15:30
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin I could be wrong, but I think he meant to write "compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$ using the Euclidean algorithm."
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 16:53
3
$begingroup$
I think he meant for the two of you to argue rancorously about some minor detail, carried away by your testosterone. It looks like he succeeded.
$endgroup$
– Lisa
Oct 16 '18 at 21:31
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Some dictionary definitions might be helpful.
A number $a$ in a ring $R$ is said to be an associate of a number $n in R$ if there is a unit $u in R$ such that $a = un$.
For example, in $mathbb Z[i]$, $-7i$ is an associate of 7 since $-7i = (-i) times 7$. Okay, this might not seem too relevant just yet.
A ring $R$ is said to be a unique factorization domain if every nonzero number $n$ has a factorization into units and prime factors, and the combination of prime factors is distinct and unique to $n$ and its associates (ordering is irrelevant if multiplication is commutative).
A unique factorization domain might also be a Euclidean domain, or it might not be. For now I'll skip over the concept of principal ideal domains.
A ring $R$ is said to be a Euclidean domain if there exists at least one function $f$, satisfying the requirements for use in the Euclidean algorithm, such that for any pair of nonzero numbers, the Euclidean algorithm using $f$ can be completed to a result.
These are the requirements for a function $f$ to be used in the Euclidean algorithm:
$f(n) = 0$ if and only if $n = 0$, otherwise $f(n) > 0$ and $f(n) in mathbb Z$.- If $d$ is a non-associate divisor of non-unit $n$, then $f(d) < f(n)$ (I think it's required that if $a$ is an associate of $n$ then $f(n) = f(a)$).
In good ol' $mathbb Z$, the usual choice is the absolute value function. It is the best choice, in my opinion. But there are many other functions that will do just fine, at least in theory if not practicality, like $f(n) = 1729n^4$.
In many domains of algebraic integers, like imaginary quadratic integer rings, the norm function is a frequent choice, leading to this definition:
An Euclidean domain $R$ is said to be a norm-Euclidean domain if the domain is Euclidean for the norm function (or the absolute value of the norm function, if the norm function in $R$ can give negative values).
So here are some examples of domains that fall at different places in the Venn diagram drawn from the preceding definitions:
- Norm-Euclidean and unique factorization domain: $mathbb Z[sqrt 2]$, since this domain is Euclidean for the absolute value of the norm function.
- Euclidean and unique factorization domain, but not norm-Euclidean: $mathcal O_{mathbb Q(sqrt{69})}$, since this domain is not Euclidean for the absolute value of the norm function, e.g. $$gcdleft(frac{23}{2} + frac{3 sqrt{73}}{2}, 18 + 2 sqrt{73}right),$$ but it is Euclidean for a specially adjusted norm function. As a matter of practicality, it is best to just do GCD by prime factorization in this domain.
- Unique factorization domain but not Euclidean: $mathcal O_{mathbb Q(sqrt{-19})}$, which I mention in antoher answer.
- Neither Euclidean nor unique factorization domain: $mathbb Z[sqrt{10}]$, try to resolve $gcd(2, sqrt{10})$ by the Euclidean algorithm with whatever suitable function you can think of. If you find one that works for that pair, let me know in the comments. Of course it won't work for some other pair.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2942031%2fgcd-in-arbitrary-domain%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
SOME EXAMPLES OF PRINCIPAL IDEAL DOMAINS WHICH ARE NOT EUCLIDEAN AND
SOME OTHER COUNTEREXAMPLES.
Abstract. It is well known that every Euclidean ring is a principal
ideal ring. It is also known for a very long time that the converse is
not valid. Counterexamples exist under the rings $R$ of integral
algebraic numbers in quadratic complex fields $Q[sqrt{D}]$ for $D =19, 43,67$, and $163$.
http://www.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/EMIS/journals/NSJOM/Papers/38_1/NSJOM_38_1_137_154.pdf
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
SOME EXAMPLES OF PRINCIPAL IDEAL DOMAINS WHICH ARE NOT EUCLIDEAN AND
SOME OTHER COUNTEREXAMPLES.
Abstract. It is well known that every Euclidean ring is a principal
ideal ring. It is also known for a very long time that the converse is
not valid. Counterexamples exist under the rings $R$ of integral
algebraic numbers in quadratic complex fields $Q[sqrt{D}]$ for $D =19, 43,67$, and $163$.
http://www.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/EMIS/journals/NSJOM/Papers/38_1/NSJOM_38_1_137_154.pdf
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
SOME EXAMPLES OF PRINCIPAL IDEAL DOMAINS WHICH ARE NOT EUCLIDEAN AND
SOME OTHER COUNTEREXAMPLES.
Abstract. It is well known that every Euclidean ring is a principal
ideal ring. It is also known for a very long time that the converse is
not valid. Counterexamples exist under the rings $R$ of integral
algebraic numbers in quadratic complex fields $Q[sqrt{D}]$ for $D =19, 43,67$, and $163$.
http://www.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/EMIS/journals/NSJOM/Papers/38_1/NSJOM_38_1_137_154.pdf
$endgroup$
SOME EXAMPLES OF PRINCIPAL IDEAL DOMAINS WHICH ARE NOT EUCLIDEAN AND
SOME OTHER COUNTEREXAMPLES.
Abstract. It is well known that every Euclidean ring is a principal
ideal ring. It is also known for a very long time that the converse is
not valid. Counterexamples exist under the rings $R$ of integral
algebraic numbers in quadratic complex fields $Q[sqrt{D}]$ for $D =19, 43,67$, and $163$.
http://www.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/EMIS/journals/NSJOM/Papers/38_1/NSJOM_38_1_137_154.pdf
edited Oct 4 '18 at 19:21
user26857
39.5k124283
39.5k124283
answered Oct 4 '18 at 12:10
Ethan BolkerEthan Bolker
45.6k553120
45.6k553120
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Well, the Euclidean algorithm may not work in the integral domain ${Bbb Z}[x]$, since in order to form the division of $f$ by $g$, the divisor $g$ need to be monic (or more generally, the leading coefficient must be invertible, here $pm 1$).
Moreover, the gcd of $2$ and $x$ is 1, but has no representation $$2a+xb=1$$ for some $a,b$. The reason is that the polynomial on the left-hand side has constant coefficient divisible by 2.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. ${Bbb Z}[x]$ is a trivial domain that I missed. Can you give an example of a domain which has finite elements?
$endgroup$
– Ativ Joshi
Oct 4 '18 at 12:16
3
$begingroup$
@AtivJoshi Every finite integral dpmain is a field.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
Oct 4 '18 at 12:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Well, the Euclidean algorithm may not work in the integral domain ${Bbb Z}[x]$, since in order to form the division of $f$ by $g$, the divisor $g$ need to be monic (or more generally, the leading coefficient must be invertible, here $pm 1$).
Moreover, the gcd of $2$ and $x$ is 1, but has no representation $$2a+xb=1$$ for some $a,b$. The reason is that the polynomial on the left-hand side has constant coefficient divisible by 2.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. ${Bbb Z}[x]$ is a trivial domain that I missed. Can you give an example of a domain which has finite elements?
$endgroup$
– Ativ Joshi
Oct 4 '18 at 12:16
3
$begingroup$
@AtivJoshi Every finite integral dpmain is a field.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
Oct 4 '18 at 12:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Well, the Euclidean algorithm may not work in the integral domain ${Bbb Z}[x]$, since in order to form the division of $f$ by $g$, the divisor $g$ need to be monic (or more generally, the leading coefficient must be invertible, here $pm 1$).
Moreover, the gcd of $2$ and $x$ is 1, but has no representation $$2a+xb=1$$ for some $a,b$. The reason is that the polynomial on the left-hand side has constant coefficient divisible by 2.
$endgroup$
Well, the Euclidean algorithm may not work in the integral domain ${Bbb Z}[x]$, since in order to form the division of $f$ by $g$, the divisor $g$ need to be monic (or more generally, the leading coefficient must be invertible, here $pm 1$).
Moreover, the gcd of $2$ and $x$ is 1, but has no representation $$2a+xb=1$$ for some $a,b$. The reason is that the polynomial on the left-hand side has constant coefficient divisible by 2.
answered Oct 4 '18 at 12:10
WuestenfuxWuestenfux
5,3631513
5,3631513
$begingroup$
Thanks. ${Bbb Z}[x]$ is a trivial domain that I missed. Can you give an example of a domain which has finite elements?
$endgroup$
– Ativ Joshi
Oct 4 '18 at 12:16
3
$begingroup$
@AtivJoshi Every finite integral dpmain is a field.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
Oct 4 '18 at 12:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks. ${Bbb Z}[x]$ is a trivial domain that I missed. Can you give an example of a domain which has finite elements?
$endgroup$
– Ativ Joshi
Oct 4 '18 at 12:16
3
$begingroup$
@AtivJoshi Every finite integral dpmain is a field.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
Oct 4 '18 at 12:21
$begingroup$
Thanks. ${Bbb Z}[x]$ is a trivial domain that I missed. Can you give an example of a domain which has finite elements?
$endgroup$
– Ativ Joshi
Oct 4 '18 at 12:16
$begingroup$
Thanks. ${Bbb Z}[x]$ is a trivial domain that I missed. Can you give an example of a domain which has finite elements?
$endgroup$
– Ativ Joshi
Oct 4 '18 at 12:16
3
3
$begingroup$
@AtivJoshi Every finite integral dpmain is a field.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
Oct 4 '18 at 12:21
$begingroup$
@AtivJoshi Every finite integral dpmain is a field.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
Oct 4 '18 at 12:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
At least in quadratic integer rings with unique factorization, if the Euclidean algorithm doesn't work, you can always just look at the prime factorization.
For example, of the infinitely many imaginary quadratic integer rings, only nine have unique factorization, and of those nine, only five are Euclidean.
In an answer to What is a concrete example to demonstrate that $mathcal{O}_{mathbb{Q}(sqrt{-19})}$ is NOT a norm-Euclidean domain? I gave the example of $$gcdleft(frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}, 10right),$$ which by prime factorization of norms we can already tell is equal to 1.
But to try to do it by the Euclidean algorithm, we immediately run into trouble: $$frac{10}{frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}} = frac{15}{7} - frac{5 sqrt{-19}}{7}.$$
Rounding "down" (that is, towards 0), we get $$frac{5}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2},$$ but then $$10 = left(frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right)left(frac{5}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right) + left(frac{3}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right).$$ Almost as frustrating as some examples in non-UFDs.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
At least in quadratic integer rings with unique factorization, if the Euclidean algorithm doesn't work, you can always just look at the prime factorization.
For example, of the infinitely many imaginary quadratic integer rings, only nine have unique factorization, and of those nine, only five are Euclidean.
In an answer to What is a concrete example to demonstrate that $mathcal{O}_{mathbb{Q}(sqrt{-19})}$ is NOT a norm-Euclidean domain? I gave the example of $$gcdleft(frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}, 10right),$$ which by prime factorization of norms we can already tell is equal to 1.
But to try to do it by the Euclidean algorithm, we immediately run into trouble: $$frac{10}{frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}} = frac{15}{7} - frac{5 sqrt{-19}}{7}.$$
Rounding "down" (that is, towards 0), we get $$frac{5}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2},$$ but then $$10 = left(frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right)left(frac{5}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right) + left(frac{3}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right).$$ Almost as frustrating as some examples in non-UFDs.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
At least in quadratic integer rings with unique factorization, if the Euclidean algorithm doesn't work, you can always just look at the prime factorization.
For example, of the infinitely many imaginary quadratic integer rings, only nine have unique factorization, and of those nine, only five are Euclidean.
In an answer to What is a concrete example to demonstrate that $mathcal{O}_{mathbb{Q}(sqrt{-19})}$ is NOT a norm-Euclidean domain? I gave the example of $$gcdleft(frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}, 10right),$$ which by prime factorization of norms we can already tell is equal to 1.
But to try to do it by the Euclidean algorithm, we immediately run into trouble: $$frac{10}{frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}} = frac{15}{7} - frac{5 sqrt{-19}}{7}.$$
Rounding "down" (that is, towards 0), we get $$frac{5}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2},$$ but then $$10 = left(frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right)left(frac{5}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right) + left(frac{3}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right).$$ Almost as frustrating as some examples in non-UFDs.
$endgroup$
At least in quadratic integer rings with unique factorization, if the Euclidean algorithm doesn't work, you can always just look at the prime factorization.
For example, of the infinitely many imaginary quadratic integer rings, only nine have unique factorization, and of those nine, only five are Euclidean.
In an answer to What is a concrete example to demonstrate that $mathcal{O}_{mathbb{Q}(sqrt{-19})}$ is NOT a norm-Euclidean domain? I gave the example of $$gcdleft(frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}, 10right),$$ which by prime factorization of norms we can already tell is equal to 1.
But to try to do it by the Euclidean algorithm, we immediately run into trouble: $$frac{10}{frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}} = frac{15}{7} - frac{5 sqrt{-19}}{7}.$$
Rounding "down" (that is, towards 0), we get $$frac{5}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2},$$ but then $$10 = left(frac{3}{2} + frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right)left(frac{5}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right) + left(frac{3}{2} - frac{sqrt{-19}}{2}right).$$ Almost as frustrating as some examples in non-UFDs.
answered Oct 16 '18 at 1:29
Robert SoupeRobert Soupe
11.5k21950
11.5k21950
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
AFAIK we can always use the Euclid's algorithm in a Euclidean Domain.
Well, yeah, that is kind of the definition. Surely then you know about non-Euclidean domains. The Euclidean algorithm will not work on those.
Do you know about the domain $mathbb{Z}[sqrt{-5}]$, consisting of numbers of the form $a + b sqrt{-5}$, where $a$ and $b in mathbb{Z}$? Sorry to give such a hackneyed example, but try to compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$. The Euclidean function is $a^2 + 5b^2$. Good luck. Mwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
That's not a particularly evil example: $1$ is a gcd.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Oct 15 '18 at 22:00
3
$begingroup$
@Arturo So what are the Euclidean steps in which the norm of the remainder is always less than the norm of the divisor? e.g., $1 + sqrt{-5} = 2m + r$, with $r < 4$?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:20
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin It's not the only potential choice, but it is the one the answerer gave. Sure, you can contrive a function $f(n)$ such that the $r$ in $2m + r$ or $(1 + sqrt{-5})m + r$ satisfies $f(r) < f(2)$ or $f(r) < f(1 + sqrt{-5})$, but can you contrive a function that will enable the Euclidean algorithm for any pair of numbers in this domain?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 15:30
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin I could be wrong, but I think he meant to write "compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$ using the Euclidean algorithm."
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 16:53
3
$begingroup$
I think he meant for the two of you to argue rancorously about some minor detail, carried away by your testosterone. It looks like he succeeded.
$endgroup$
– Lisa
Oct 16 '18 at 21:31
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
AFAIK we can always use the Euclid's algorithm in a Euclidean Domain.
Well, yeah, that is kind of the definition. Surely then you know about non-Euclidean domains. The Euclidean algorithm will not work on those.
Do you know about the domain $mathbb{Z}[sqrt{-5}]$, consisting of numbers of the form $a + b sqrt{-5}$, where $a$ and $b in mathbb{Z}$? Sorry to give such a hackneyed example, but try to compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$. The Euclidean function is $a^2 + 5b^2$. Good luck. Mwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
That's not a particularly evil example: $1$ is a gcd.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Oct 15 '18 at 22:00
3
$begingroup$
@Arturo So what are the Euclidean steps in which the norm of the remainder is always less than the norm of the divisor? e.g., $1 + sqrt{-5} = 2m + r$, with $r < 4$?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:20
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin It's not the only potential choice, but it is the one the answerer gave. Sure, you can contrive a function $f(n)$ such that the $r$ in $2m + r$ or $(1 + sqrt{-5})m + r$ satisfies $f(r) < f(2)$ or $f(r) < f(1 + sqrt{-5})$, but can you contrive a function that will enable the Euclidean algorithm for any pair of numbers in this domain?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 15:30
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin I could be wrong, but I think he meant to write "compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$ using the Euclidean algorithm."
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 16:53
3
$begingroup$
I think he meant for the two of you to argue rancorously about some minor detail, carried away by your testosterone. It looks like he succeeded.
$endgroup$
– Lisa
Oct 16 '18 at 21:31
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
AFAIK we can always use the Euclid's algorithm in a Euclidean Domain.
Well, yeah, that is kind of the definition. Surely then you know about non-Euclidean domains. The Euclidean algorithm will not work on those.
Do you know about the domain $mathbb{Z}[sqrt{-5}]$, consisting of numbers of the form $a + b sqrt{-5}$, where $a$ and $b in mathbb{Z}$? Sorry to give such a hackneyed example, but try to compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$. The Euclidean function is $a^2 + 5b^2$. Good luck. Mwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
$endgroup$
AFAIK we can always use the Euclid's algorithm in a Euclidean Domain.
Well, yeah, that is kind of the definition. Surely then you know about non-Euclidean domains. The Euclidean algorithm will not work on those.
Do you know about the domain $mathbb{Z}[sqrt{-5}]$, consisting of numbers of the form $a + b sqrt{-5}$, where $a$ and $b in mathbb{Z}$? Sorry to give such a hackneyed example, but try to compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$. The Euclidean function is $a^2 + 5b^2$. Good luck. Mwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
answered Oct 15 '18 at 21:36
The Short OneThe Short One
6241625
6241625
2
$begingroup$
That's not a particularly evil example: $1$ is a gcd.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Oct 15 '18 at 22:00
3
$begingroup$
@Arturo So what are the Euclidean steps in which the norm of the remainder is always less than the norm of the divisor? e.g., $1 + sqrt{-5} = 2m + r$, with $r < 4$?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:20
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin It's not the only potential choice, but it is the one the answerer gave. Sure, you can contrive a function $f(n)$ such that the $r$ in $2m + r$ or $(1 + sqrt{-5})m + r$ satisfies $f(r) < f(2)$ or $f(r) < f(1 + sqrt{-5})$, but can you contrive a function that will enable the Euclidean algorithm for any pair of numbers in this domain?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 15:30
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin I could be wrong, but I think he meant to write "compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$ using the Euclidean algorithm."
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 16:53
3
$begingroup$
I think he meant for the two of you to argue rancorously about some minor detail, carried away by your testosterone. It looks like he succeeded.
$endgroup$
– Lisa
Oct 16 '18 at 21:31
|
show 2 more comments
2
$begingroup$
That's not a particularly evil example: $1$ is a gcd.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Oct 15 '18 at 22:00
3
$begingroup$
@Arturo So what are the Euclidean steps in which the norm of the remainder is always less than the norm of the divisor? e.g., $1 + sqrt{-5} = 2m + r$, with $r < 4$?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:20
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin It's not the only potential choice, but it is the one the answerer gave. Sure, you can contrive a function $f(n)$ such that the $r$ in $2m + r$ or $(1 + sqrt{-5})m + r$ satisfies $f(r) < f(2)$ or $f(r) < f(1 + sqrt{-5})$, but can you contrive a function that will enable the Euclidean algorithm for any pair of numbers in this domain?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 15:30
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin I could be wrong, but I think he meant to write "compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$ using the Euclidean algorithm."
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 16:53
3
$begingroup$
I think he meant for the two of you to argue rancorously about some minor detail, carried away by your testosterone. It looks like he succeeded.
$endgroup$
– Lisa
Oct 16 '18 at 21:31
2
2
$begingroup$
That's not a particularly evil example: $1$ is a gcd.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Oct 15 '18 at 22:00
$begingroup$
That's not a particularly evil example: $1$ is a gcd.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Oct 15 '18 at 22:00
3
3
$begingroup$
@Arturo So what are the Euclidean steps in which the norm of the remainder is always less than the norm of the divisor? e.g., $1 + sqrt{-5} = 2m + r$, with $r < 4$?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:20
$begingroup$
@Arturo So what are the Euclidean steps in which the norm of the remainder is always less than the norm of the divisor? e.g., $1 + sqrt{-5} = 2m + r$, with $r < 4$?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:20
2
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin It's not the only potential choice, but it is the one the answerer gave. Sure, you can contrive a function $f(n)$ such that the $r$ in $2m + r$ or $(1 + sqrt{-5})m + r$ satisfies $f(r) < f(2)$ or $f(r) < f(1 + sqrt{-5})$, but can you contrive a function that will enable the Euclidean algorithm for any pair of numbers in this domain?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 15:30
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin It's not the only potential choice, but it is the one the answerer gave. Sure, you can contrive a function $f(n)$ such that the $r$ in $2m + r$ or $(1 + sqrt{-5})m + r$ satisfies $f(r) < f(2)$ or $f(r) < f(1 + sqrt{-5})$, but can you contrive a function that will enable the Euclidean algorithm for any pair of numbers in this domain?
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 15:30
2
2
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin I could be wrong, but I think he meant to write "compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$ using the Euclidean algorithm."
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 16:53
$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin I could be wrong, but I think he meant to write "compute $gcd(2, 1 + sqrt{-5})$ using the Euclidean algorithm."
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 16:53
3
3
$begingroup$
I think he meant for the two of you to argue rancorously about some minor detail, carried away by your testosterone. It looks like he succeeded.
$endgroup$
– Lisa
Oct 16 '18 at 21:31
$begingroup$
I think he meant for the two of you to argue rancorously about some minor detail, carried away by your testosterone. It looks like he succeeded.
$endgroup$
– Lisa
Oct 16 '18 at 21:31
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Some dictionary definitions might be helpful.
A number $a$ in a ring $R$ is said to be an associate of a number $n in R$ if there is a unit $u in R$ such that $a = un$.
For example, in $mathbb Z[i]$, $-7i$ is an associate of 7 since $-7i = (-i) times 7$. Okay, this might not seem too relevant just yet.
A ring $R$ is said to be a unique factorization domain if every nonzero number $n$ has a factorization into units and prime factors, and the combination of prime factors is distinct and unique to $n$ and its associates (ordering is irrelevant if multiplication is commutative).
A unique factorization domain might also be a Euclidean domain, or it might not be. For now I'll skip over the concept of principal ideal domains.
A ring $R$ is said to be a Euclidean domain if there exists at least one function $f$, satisfying the requirements for use in the Euclidean algorithm, such that for any pair of nonzero numbers, the Euclidean algorithm using $f$ can be completed to a result.
These are the requirements for a function $f$ to be used in the Euclidean algorithm:
$f(n) = 0$ if and only if $n = 0$, otherwise $f(n) > 0$ and $f(n) in mathbb Z$.- If $d$ is a non-associate divisor of non-unit $n$, then $f(d) < f(n)$ (I think it's required that if $a$ is an associate of $n$ then $f(n) = f(a)$).
In good ol' $mathbb Z$, the usual choice is the absolute value function. It is the best choice, in my opinion. But there are many other functions that will do just fine, at least in theory if not practicality, like $f(n) = 1729n^4$.
In many domains of algebraic integers, like imaginary quadratic integer rings, the norm function is a frequent choice, leading to this definition:
An Euclidean domain $R$ is said to be a norm-Euclidean domain if the domain is Euclidean for the norm function (or the absolute value of the norm function, if the norm function in $R$ can give negative values).
So here are some examples of domains that fall at different places in the Venn diagram drawn from the preceding definitions:
- Norm-Euclidean and unique factorization domain: $mathbb Z[sqrt 2]$, since this domain is Euclidean for the absolute value of the norm function.
- Euclidean and unique factorization domain, but not norm-Euclidean: $mathcal O_{mathbb Q(sqrt{69})}$, since this domain is not Euclidean for the absolute value of the norm function, e.g. $$gcdleft(frac{23}{2} + frac{3 sqrt{73}}{2}, 18 + 2 sqrt{73}right),$$ but it is Euclidean for a specially adjusted norm function. As a matter of practicality, it is best to just do GCD by prime factorization in this domain.
- Unique factorization domain but not Euclidean: $mathcal O_{mathbb Q(sqrt{-19})}$, which I mention in antoher answer.
- Neither Euclidean nor unique factorization domain: $mathbb Z[sqrt{10}]$, try to resolve $gcd(2, sqrt{10})$ by the Euclidean algorithm with whatever suitable function you can think of. If you find one that works for that pair, let me know in the comments. Of course it won't work for some other pair.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Some dictionary definitions might be helpful.
A number $a$ in a ring $R$ is said to be an associate of a number $n in R$ if there is a unit $u in R$ such that $a = un$.
For example, in $mathbb Z[i]$, $-7i$ is an associate of 7 since $-7i = (-i) times 7$. Okay, this might not seem too relevant just yet.
A ring $R$ is said to be a unique factorization domain if every nonzero number $n$ has a factorization into units and prime factors, and the combination of prime factors is distinct and unique to $n$ and its associates (ordering is irrelevant if multiplication is commutative).
A unique factorization domain might also be a Euclidean domain, or it might not be. For now I'll skip over the concept of principal ideal domains.
A ring $R$ is said to be a Euclidean domain if there exists at least one function $f$, satisfying the requirements for use in the Euclidean algorithm, such that for any pair of nonzero numbers, the Euclidean algorithm using $f$ can be completed to a result.
These are the requirements for a function $f$ to be used in the Euclidean algorithm:
$f(n) = 0$ if and only if $n = 0$, otherwise $f(n) > 0$ and $f(n) in mathbb Z$.- If $d$ is a non-associate divisor of non-unit $n$, then $f(d) < f(n)$ (I think it's required that if $a$ is an associate of $n$ then $f(n) = f(a)$).
In good ol' $mathbb Z$, the usual choice is the absolute value function. It is the best choice, in my opinion. But there are many other functions that will do just fine, at least in theory if not practicality, like $f(n) = 1729n^4$.
In many domains of algebraic integers, like imaginary quadratic integer rings, the norm function is a frequent choice, leading to this definition:
An Euclidean domain $R$ is said to be a norm-Euclidean domain if the domain is Euclidean for the norm function (or the absolute value of the norm function, if the norm function in $R$ can give negative values).
So here are some examples of domains that fall at different places in the Venn diagram drawn from the preceding definitions:
- Norm-Euclidean and unique factorization domain: $mathbb Z[sqrt 2]$, since this domain is Euclidean for the absolute value of the norm function.
- Euclidean and unique factorization domain, but not norm-Euclidean: $mathcal O_{mathbb Q(sqrt{69})}$, since this domain is not Euclidean for the absolute value of the norm function, e.g. $$gcdleft(frac{23}{2} + frac{3 sqrt{73}}{2}, 18 + 2 sqrt{73}right),$$ but it is Euclidean for a specially adjusted norm function. As a matter of practicality, it is best to just do GCD by prime factorization in this domain.
- Unique factorization domain but not Euclidean: $mathcal O_{mathbb Q(sqrt{-19})}$, which I mention in antoher answer.
- Neither Euclidean nor unique factorization domain: $mathbb Z[sqrt{10}]$, try to resolve $gcd(2, sqrt{10})$ by the Euclidean algorithm with whatever suitable function you can think of. If you find one that works for that pair, let me know in the comments. Of course it won't work for some other pair.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Some dictionary definitions might be helpful.
A number $a$ in a ring $R$ is said to be an associate of a number $n in R$ if there is a unit $u in R$ such that $a = un$.
For example, in $mathbb Z[i]$, $-7i$ is an associate of 7 since $-7i = (-i) times 7$. Okay, this might not seem too relevant just yet.
A ring $R$ is said to be a unique factorization domain if every nonzero number $n$ has a factorization into units and prime factors, and the combination of prime factors is distinct and unique to $n$ and its associates (ordering is irrelevant if multiplication is commutative).
A unique factorization domain might also be a Euclidean domain, or it might not be. For now I'll skip over the concept of principal ideal domains.
A ring $R$ is said to be a Euclidean domain if there exists at least one function $f$, satisfying the requirements for use in the Euclidean algorithm, such that for any pair of nonzero numbers, the Euclidean algorithm using $f$ can be completed to a result.
These are the requirements for a function $f$ to be used in the Euclidean algorithm:
$f(n) = 0$ if and only if $n = 0$, otherwise $f(n) > 0$ and $f(n) in mathbb Z$.- If $d$ is a non-associate divisor of non-unit $n$, then $f(d) < f(n)$ (I think it's required that if $a$ is an associate of $n$ then $f(n) = f(a)$).
In good ol' $mathbb Z$, the usual choice is the absolute value function. It is the best choice, in my opinion. But there are many other functions that will do just fine, at least in theory if not practicality, like $f(n) = 1729n^4$.
In many domains of algebraic integers, like imaginary quadratic integer rings, the norm function is a frequent choice, leading to this definition:
An Euclidean domain $R$ is said to be a norm-Euclidean domain if the domain is Euclidean for the norm function (or the absolute value of the norm function, if the norm function in $R$ can give negative values).
So here are some examples of domains that fall at different places in the Venn diagram drawn from the preceding definitions:
- Norm-Euclidean and unique factorization domain: $mathbb Z[sqrt 2]$, since this domain is Euclidean for the absolute value of the norm function.
- Euclidean and unique factorization domain, but not norm-Euclidean: $mathcal O_{mathbb Q(sqrt{69})}$, since this domain is not Euclidean for the absolute value of the norm function, e.g. $$gcdleft(frac{23}{2} + frac{3 sqrt{73}}{2}, 18 + 2 sqrt{73}right),$$ but it is Euclidean for a specially adjusted norm function. As a matter of practicality, it is best to just do GCD by prime factorization in this domain.
- Unique factorization domain but not Euclidean: $mathcal O_{mathbb Q(sqrt{-19})}$, which I mention in antoher answer.
- Neither Euclidean nor unique factorization domain: $mathbb Z[sqrt{10}]$, try to resolve $gcd(2, sqrt{10})$ by the Euclidean algorithm with whatever suitable function you can think of. If you find one that works for that pair, let me know in the comments. Of course it won't work for some other pair.
$endgroup$
Some dictionary definitions might be helpful.
A number $a$ in a ring $R$ is said to be an associate of a number $n in R$ if there is a unit $u in R$ such that $a = un$.
For example, in $mathbb Z[i]$, $-7i$ is an associate of 7 since $-7i = (-i) times 7$. Okay, this might not seem too relevant just yet.
A ring $R$ is said to be a unique factorization domain if every nonzero number $n$ has a factorization into units and prime factors, and the combination of prime factors is distinct and unique to $n$ and its associates (ordering is irrelevant if multiplication is commutative).
A unique factorization domain might also be a Euclidean domain, or it might not be. For now I'll skip over the concept of principal ideal domains.
A ring $R$ is said to be a Euclidean domain if there exists at least one function $f$, satisfying the requirements for use in the Euclidean algorithm, such that for any pair of nonzero numbers, the Euclidean algorithm using $f$ can be completed to a result.
These are the requirements for a function $f$ to be used in the Euclidean algorithm:
$f(n) = 0$ if and only if $n = 0$, otherwise $f(n) > 0$ and $f(n) in mathbb Z$.- If $d$ is a non-associate divisor of non-unit $n$, then $f(d) < f(n)$ (I think it's required that if $a$ is an associate of $n$ then $f(n) = f(a)$).
In good ol' $mathbb Z$, the usual choice is the absolute value function. It is the best choice, in my opinion. But there are many other functions that will do just fine, at least in theory if not practicality, like $f(n) = 1729n^4$.
In many domains of algebraic integers, like imaginary quadratic integer rings, the norm function is a frequent choice, leading to this definition:
An Euclidean domain $R$ is said to be a norm-Euclidean domain if the domain is Euclidean for the norm function (or the absolute value of the norm function, if the norm function in $R$ can give negative values).
So here are some examples of domains that fall at different places in the Venn diagram drawn from the preceding definitions:
- Norm-Euclidean and unique factorization domain: $mathbb Z[sqrt 2]$, since this domain is Euclidean for the absolute value of the norm function.
- Euclidean and unique factorization domain, but not norm-Euclidean: $mathcal O_{mathbb Q(sqrt{69})}$, since this domain is not Euclidean for the absolute value of the norm function, e.g. $$gcdleft(frac{23}{2} + frac{3 sqrt{73}}{2}, 18 + 2 sqrt{73}right),$$ but it is Euclidean for a specially adjusted norm function. As a matter of practicality, it is best to just do GCD by prime factorization in this domain.
- Unique factorization domain but not Euclidean: $mathcal O_{mathbb Q(sqrt{-19})}$, which I mention in antoher answer.
- Neither Euclidean nor unique factorization domain: $mathbb Z[sqrt{10}]$, try to resolve $gcd(2, sqrt{10})$ by the Euclidean algorithm with whatever suitable function you can think of. If you find one that works for that pair, let me know in the comments. Of course it won't work for some other pair.
answered Dec 24 '18 at 4:57
Robert SoupeRobert Soupe
11.5k21950
11.5k21950
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2942031%2fgcd-in-arbitrary-domain%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
A related question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1040330/…
$endgroup$
– Robert Soupe
Oct 16 '18 at 0:26