$T_1, … , T_n$ time of life of instruments with geometric distribution of parameter p independent












0












$begingroup$


$T_1, ... , T_n$ time of life of instruments with geometric distribution of parameter p independents.
I define S as the first n instants of failure and U as the last n instant of failure.
I want to find the law of S and the density of U.



This is what I did so far:



To find the law of S I start by calculating:
$$mathbb{P}(S = k) = mathbb{P}(S geq k) - mathbb{P}(S geq k + 1) $$
$$mathbb{P}(S = k) = mathbb{P}(S < k+1) - mathbb{P}(S < k)$$
But here I am stuck on what I should do because I still do not know the distribution.



I do the same reasoning with U as follows:
$$ mathbb{U}(S = k) = mathbb{U}(U leq k) - mathbb{U}(S leq k + 1) $$
But I still get nowhere.



Any suggestions?



EDIT:



Following the suggestions I managed to say that:



$$mathbb{P}(S=k) = [mathbb{P}(T_1 geq k)]^n = [1 -mathbb{P}(T_1 < k)]^n = $$
$$ = [1 - [1-(1-p)^k]^n = [(1-p)^k]^n $$



Now the exercise asks me to identify random variable, saying it is a geometric distribution with parameter $1-(1-p)^n$. However I am struggling to see how this is true.



Moreover, how should I study U? Is it the maximum instead of the minimum? I would love to see a hint of solution using my procedure as well.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    If I understand correct then $S=min(T_1,dots,T_n)$ so that $P(Sgeq k)=P(T_1geq k,dots,T_ngeq k)=P(T_1geq k)^n$. Does that help?
    $endgroup$
    – drhab
    Nov 2 '18 at 9:36










  • $begingroup$
    Can you follow it up? I am not sure where this is going.
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Nov 2 '18 at 11:07










  • $begingroup$
    @qcc101 you have an expression for $P(T_1geq k)$ because you know $T_1 sim Geo(p)$ thus substitute it into what drhab found to get an expression for $P(S geq k)$...
    $endgroup$
    – LoveTooNap29
    Nov 3 '18 at 19:15










  • $begingroup$
    @LoveTooNap29 From this I found that: $[mathbb{P}(T_1 geq k)]^n = [(1-p)^k]^n$. Is this distribution equivalent to a geometric distribution of parameter $1-(1-p)^n$? Anyway, I would love to solve this exercise also with my procedure if that is possible.
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Dec 4 '18 at 15:20


















0












$begingroup$


$T_1, ... , T_n$ time of life of instruments with geometric distribution of parameter p independents.
I define S as the first n instants of failure and U as the last n instant of failure.
I want to find the law of S and the density of U.



This is what I did so far:



To find the law of S I start by calculating:
$$mathbb{P}(S = k) = mathbb{P}(S geq k) - mathbb{P}(S geq k + 1) $$
$$mathbb{P}(S = k) = mathbb{P}(S < k+1) - mathbb{P}(S < k)$$
But here I am stuck on what I should do because I still do not know the distribution.



I do the same reasoning with U as follows:
$$ mathbb{U}(S = k) = mathbb{U}(U leq k) - mathbb{U}(S leq k + 1) $$
But I still get nowhere.



Any suggestions?



EDIT:



Following the suggestions I managed to say that:



$$mathbb{P}(S=k) = [mathbb{P}(T_1 geq k)]^n = [1 -mathbb{P}(T_1 < k)]^n = $$
$$ = [1 - [1-(1-p)^k]^n = [(1-p)^k]^n $$



Now the exercise asks me to identify random variable, saying it is a geometric distribution with parameter $1-(1-p)^n$. However I am struggling to see how this is true.



Moreover, how should I study U? Is it the maximum instead of the minimum? I would love to see a hint of solution using my procedure as well.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    If I understand correct then $S=min(T_1,dots,T_n)$ so that $P(Sgeq k)=P(T_1geq k,dots,T_ngeq k)=P(T_1geq k)^n$. Does that help?
    $endgroup$
    – drhab
    Nov 2 '18 at 9:36










  • $begingroup$
    Can you follow it up? I am not sure where this is going.
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Nov 2 '18 at 11:07










  • $begingroup$
    @qcc101 you have an expression for $P(T_1geq k)$ because you know $T_1 sim Geo(p)$ thus substitute it into what drhab found to get an expression for $P(S geq k)$...
    $endgroup$
    – LoveTooNap29
    Nov 3 '18 at 19:15










  • $begingroup$
    @LoveTooNap29 From this I found that: $[mathbb{P}(T_1 geq k)]^n = [(1-p)^k]^n$. Is this distribution equivalent to a geometric distribution of parameter $1-(1-p)^n$? Anyway, I would love to solve this exercise also with my procedure if that is possible.
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Dec 4 '18 at 15:20
















0












0








0





$begingroup$


$T_1, ... , T_n$ time of life of instruments with geometric distribution of parameter p independents.
I define S as the first n instants of failure and U as the last n instant of failure.
I want to find the law of S and the density of U.



This is what I did so far:



To find the law of S I start by calculating:
$$mathbb{P}(S = k) = mathbb{P}(S geq k) - mathbb{P}(S geq k + 1) $$
$$mathbb{P}(S = k) = mathbb{P}(S < k+1) - mathbb{P}(S < k)$$
But here I am stuck on what I should do because I still do not know the distribution.



I do the same reasoning with U as follows:
$$ mathbb{U}(S = k) = mathbb{U}(U leq k) - mathbb{U}(S leq k + 1) $$
But I still get nowhere.



Any suggestions?



EDIT:



Following the suggestions I managed to say that:



$$mathbb{P}(S=k) = [mathbb{P}(T_1 geq k)]^n = [1 -mathbb{P}(T_1 < k)]^n = $$
$$ = [1 - [1-(1-p)^k]^n = [(1-p)^k]^n $$



Now the exercise asks me to identify random variable, saying it is a geometric distribution with parameter $1-(1-p)^n$. However I am struggling to see how this is true.



Moreover, how should I study U? Is it the maximum instead of the minimum? I would love to see a hint of solution using my procedure as well.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




$T_1, ... , T_n$ time of life of instruments with geometric distribution of parameter p independents.
I define S as the first n instants of failure and U as the last n instant of failure.
I want to find the law of S and the density of U.



This is what I did so far:



To find the law of S I start by calculating:
$$mathbb{P}(S = k) = mathbb{P}(S geq k) - mathbb{P}(S geq k + 1) $$
$$mathbb{P}(S = k) = mathbb{P}(S < k+1) - mathbb{P}(S < k)$$
But here I am stuck on what I should do because I still do not know the distribution.



I do the same reasoning with U as follows:
$$ mathbb{U}(S = k) = mathbb{U}(U leq k) - mathbb{U}(S leq k + 1) $$
But I still get nowhere.



Any suggestions?



EDIT:



Following the suggestions I managed to say that:



$$mathbb{P}(S=k) = [mathbb{P}(T_1 geq k)]^n = [1 -mathbb{P}(T_1 < k)]^n = $$
$$ = [1 - [1-(1-p)^k]^n = [(1-p)^k]^n $$



Now the exercise asks me to identify random variable, saying it is a geometric distribution with parameter $1-(1-p)^n$. However I am struggling to see how this is true.



Moreover, how should I study U? Is it the maximum instead of the minimum? I would love to see a hint of solution using my procedure as well.







probability






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Dec 4 '18 at 15:38







qcc101

















asked Nov 2 '18 at 8:59









qcc101qcc101

594213




594213








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    If I understand correct then $S=min(T_1,dots,T_n)$ so that $P(Sgeq k)=P(T_1geq k,dots,T_ngeq k)=P(T_1geq k)^n$. Does that help?
    $endgroup$
    – drhab
    Nov 2 '18 at 9:36










  • $begingroup$
    Can you follow it up? I am not sure where this is going.
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Nov 2 '18 at 11:07










  • $begingroup$
    @qcc101 you have an expression for $P(T_1geq k)$ because you know $T_1 sim Geo(p)$ thus substitute it into what drhab found to get an expression for $P(S geq k)$...
    $endgroup$
    – LoveTooNap29
    Nov 3 '18 at 19:15










  • $begingroup$
    @LoveTooNap29 From this I found that: $[mathbb{P}(T_1 geq k)]^n = [(1-p)^k]^n$. Is this distribution equivalent to a geometric distribution of parameter $1-(1-p)^n$? Anyway, I would love to solve this exercise also with my procedure if that is possible.
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Dec 4 '18 at 15:20
















  • 1




    $begingroup$
    If I understand correct then $S=min(T_1,dots,T_n)$ so that $P(Sgeq k)=P(T_1geq k,dots,T_ngeq k)=P(T_1geq k)^n$. Does that help?
    $endgroup$
    – drhab
    Nov 2 '18 at 9:36










  • $begingroup$
    Can you follow it up? I am not sure where this is going.
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Nov 2 '18 at 11:07










  • $begingroup$
    @qcc101 you have an expression for $P(T_1geq k)$ because you know $T_1 sim Geo(p)$ thus substitute it into what drhab found to get an expression for $P(S geq k)$...
    $endgroup$
    – LoveTooNap29
    Nov 3 '18 at 19:15










  • $begingroup$
    @LoveTooNap29 From this I found that: $[mathbb{P}(T_1 geq k)]^n = [(1-p)^k]^n$. Is this distribution equivalent to a geometric distribution of parameter $1-(1-p)^n$? Anyway, I would love to solve this exercise also with my procedure if that is possible.
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Dec 4 '18 at 15:20










1




1




$begingroup$
If I understand correct then $S=min(T_1,dots,T_n)$ so that $P(Sgeq k)=P(T_1geq k,dots,T_ngeq k)=P(T_1geq k)^n$. Does that help?
$endgroup$
– drhab
Nov 2 '18 at 9:36




$begingroup$
If I understand correct then $S=min(T_1,dots,T_n)$ so that $P(Sgeq k)=P(T_1geq k,dots,T_ngeq k)=P(T_1geq k)^n$. Does that help?
$endgroup$
– drhab
Nov 2 '18 at 9:36












$begingroup$
Can you follow it up? I am not sure where this is going.
$endgroup$
– qcc101
Nov 2 '18 at 11:07




$begingroup$
Can you follow it up? I am not sure where this is going.
$endgroup$
– qcc101
Nov 2 '18 at 11:07












$begingroup$
@qcc101 you have an expression for $P(T_1geq k)$ because you know $T_1 sim Geo(p)$ thus substitute it into what drhab found to get an expression for $P(S geq k)$...
$endgroup$
– LoveTooNap29
Nov 3 '18 at 19:15




$begingroup$
@qcc101 you have an expression for $P(T_1geq k)$ because you know $T_1 sim Geo(p)$ thus substitute it into what drhab found to get an expression for $P(S geq k)$...
$endgroup$
– LoveTooNap29
Nov 3 '18 at 19:15












$begingroup$
@LoveTooNap29 From this I found that: $[mathbb{P}(T_1 geq k)]^n = [(1-p)^k]^n$. Is this distribution equivalent to a geometric distribution of parameter $1-(1-p)^n$? Anyway, I would love to solve this exercise also with my procedure if that is possible.
$endgroup$
– qcc101
Dec 4 '18 at 15:20






$begingroup$
@LoveTooNap29 From this I found that: $[mathbb{P}(T_1 geq k)]^n = [(1-p)^k]^n$. Is this distribution equivalent to a geometric distribution of parameter $1-(1-p)^n$? Anyway, I would love to solve this exercise also with my procedure if that is possible.
$endgroup$
– qcc101
Dec 4 '18 at 15:20












1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















1





+50







$begingroup$

First of all defining $S$ as the "first n instants [sic] of failure" makes little sense, as you have only been given $n$ lifetimes, so for there to be $n$ instances of failure would require all $n$ lifetimes to terminate. This confusion is likely why Drhab commented as such, suggesting instead to look at $S=min{T_1,dotsc,T_n}$ and provided the general formula for all minimums of IIDRVs: $P(S> k)=P(T_1> k)^n$. This is interpreted as the first instance of failure out of the $n$ lifetimes, i.e. the minimum lifetime.



Then, with $P(T_1leq k)=1-(1-p)^k$ (assuming CDF corresponding to when the $T_i$ take values in $mathbb{N}$), we first have $P(T_1>k)=(1-p)^k=:q^k$ where $q=1-p$ for ease of notation. Then substituting, we have $P(S>k)=(q^k)^n=(q^n)^k$, so that indeed $P(Sleq k)=1-(q^n)^k$ is the CDF of a Geometric RV with new parameter $tilde{p}=1-q^n=1-(1-p)^n$.



How can we tackle $U$? Well, let's see how that minimum formula was derived in the first place and hope that informs us on a similar manner to derive a formula for the maximum of IIDRVs.



If the minimum of $n$ variables is greater than a number $k$, then all of those variables must be greater than $k$, i.e the following set equalities hold
$${min{T_1,dotsc, T_n} >k}={T_1 >k,dotsc, T_n>k}.$$
That's just from the definition of minimum. Thus, taking probabilities and writing $S=min{S_1,dotsc, S_n}$, we have
$$P(S >k)=P(T_1>k, dotsc, T_n>k),$$
and finally the IID assumption greatly simplifies the RHS further, to
$$P(S>k)=P(T_1>K)P(T_2>k)cdot dotsc cdot P(T_n >k),$$
first using independence, then using the identical distributions, we finally get
$$P(S>k)=P(T_1>k)^n.$$



Can you now, after seeing this argument for minimum, derive the analogous formula for maximums? Please comment for further clarification.



EDIT
If $U=max{T_1,dots, T_n}$, then we know that $P(Uleq k)=P(T_1 leq k)^n=(1-q^{k})^n$ by definition of maximum and since the $T_i$ are IID. To find $mathbb{E}(U)$ we use the alternative formula for expectations for discrete non-negative RVs:
$$E(U)=sum_{k=1}^infty P(Ugeq k).$$
Since $P(Ugeq k)=1-P(Uleq k-1)=1-(1-q^{k-1})^n,$ we must compute the series,
$$sum_{k=1}^infty 1-(1-q^{k-1})^n.$$
In principle this series can always be computed by using the binomial theorem to expand $(1-q^{k-1})^n$ and then use theory of geometric series to compute the resulting series' in closed form. For $n=2$, we have
$$mathbb{E}(U)=frac{3-2p}{p(2-p)}approx 2.667$$
when $p=0.5$, for example.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Super clear. I managed to solve the one with U as well, finding that $f_U(k) = [1-(1-p)^k]^n - [1-(1-p)^{k-1}]^n$ which is indeed the right solution. Let's say I want to find $mathbb{E}[U]$ as well. By linearity, I write: $$ mathbb{E}[U] = mathbb{E}[U+S] - mathbb{E}[S] $$ The expected value of S is easy because it is geometrically distributed. How should I find the expected value of the sum of U and S? (Is this a good procedure to simplify the problem?) Edit: with n = 2
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Dec 5 '18 at 13:38












  • $begingroup$
    @qcc101 Thanks. I have added an edit demonstrating how to compute $mathbb{E}(U)$ with the analytic answer for $n=2$, as an example and its numerical value for when $p=0.5$. Your idea would require knowing the PDF or CDF of $U+S$ which is not immediately known. Better to compute the expected value by definition or become familiar with the alternative formula I cite—extremely useful in the case of non-negative RVs and perusing the Wikipedia link, you will notice an analogous version for continuous non-negative RVs, as well. Hope this helps.
    $endgroup$
    – LoveTooNap29
    Dec 5 '18 at 18:47











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2981493%2ft-1-t-n-time-of-life-of-instruments-with-geometric-distribution-of-para%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









1





+50







$begingroup$

First of all defining $S$ as the "first n instants [sic] of failure" makes little sense, as you have only been given $n$ lifetimes, so for there to be $n$ instances of failure would require all $n$ lifetimes to terminate. This confusion is likely why Drhab commented as such, suggesting instead to look at $S=min{T_1,dotsc,T_n}$ and provided the general formula for all minimums of IIDRVs: $P(S> k)=P(T_1> k)^n$. This is interpreted as the first instance of failure out of the $n$ lifetimes, i.e. the minimum lifetime.



Then, with $P(T_1leq k)=1-(1-p)^k$ (assuming CDF corresponding to when the $T_i$ take values in $mathbb{N}$), we first have $P(T_1>k)=(1-p)^k=:q^k$ where $q=1-p$ for ease of notation. Then substituting, we have $P(S>k)=(q^k)^n=(q^n)^k$, so that indeed $P(Sleq k)=1-(q^n)^k$ is the CDF of a Geometric RV with new parameter $tilde{p}=1-q^n=1-(1-p)^n$.



How can we tackle $U$? Well, let's see how that minimum formula was derived in the first place and hope that informs us on a similar manner to derive a formula for the maximum of IIDRVs.



If the minimum of $n$ variables is greater than a number $k$, then all of those variables must be greater than $k$, i.e the following set equalities hold
$${min{T_1,dotsc, T_n} >k}={T_1 >k,dotsc, T_n>k}.$$
That's just from the definition of minimum. Thus, taking probabilities and writing $S=min{S_1,dotsc, S_n}$, we have
$$P(S >k)=P(T_1>k, dotsc, T_n>k),$$
and finally the IID assumption greatly simplifies the RHS further, to
$$P(S>k)=P(T_1>K)P(T_2>k)cdot dotsc cdot P(T_n >k),$$
first using independence, then using the identical distributions, we finally get
$$P(S>k)=P(T_1>k)^n.$$



Can you now, after seeing this argument for minimum, derive the analogous formula for maximums? Please comment for further clarification.



EDIT
If $U=max{T_1,dots, T_n}$, then we know that $P(Uleq k)=P(T_1 leq k)^n=(1-q^{k})^n$ by definition of maximum and since the $T_i$ are IID. To find $mathbb{E}(U)$ we use the alternative formula for expectations for discrete non-negative RVs:
$$E(U)=sum_{k=1}^infty P(Ugeq k).$$
Since $P(Ugeq k)=1-P(Uleq k-1)=1-(1-q^{k-1})^n,$ we must compute the series,
$$sum_{k=1}^infty 1-(1-q^{k-1})^n.$$
In principle this series can always be computed by using the binomial theorem to expand $(1-q^{k-1})^n$ and then use theory of geometric series to compute the resulting series' in closed form. For $n=2$, we have
$$mathbb{E}(U)=frac{3-2p}{p(2-p)}approx 2.667$$
when $p=0.5$, for example.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Super clear. I managed to solve the one with U as well, finding that $f_U(k) = [1-(1-p)^k]^n - [1-(1-p)^{k-1}]^n$ which is indeed the right solution. Let's say I want to find $mathbb{E}[U]$ as well. By linearity, I write: $$ mathbb{E}[U] = mathbb{E}[U+S] - mathbb{E}[S] $$ The expected value of S is easy because it is geometrically distributed. How should I find the expected value of the sum of U and S? (Is this a good procedure to simplify the problem?) Edit: with n = 2
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Dec 5 '18 at 13:38












  • $begingroup$
    @qcc101 Thanks. I have added an edit demonstrating how to compute $mathbb{E}(U)$ with the analytic answer for $n=2$, as an example and its numerical value for when $p=0.5$. Your idea would require knowing the PDF or CDF of $U+S$ which is not immediately known. Better to compute the expected value by definition or become familiar with the alternative formula I cite—extremely useful in the case of non-negative RVs and perusing the Wikipedia link, you will notice an analogous version for continuous non-negative RVs, as well. Hope this helps.
    $endgroup$
    – LoveTooNap29
    Dec 5 '18 at 18:47
















1





+50







$begingroup$

First of all defining $S$ as the "first n instants [sic] of failure" makes little sense, as you have only been given $n$ lifetimes, so for there to be $n$ instances of failure would require all $n$ lifetimes to terminate. This confusion is likely why Drhab commented as such, suggesting instead to look at $S=min{T_1,dotsc,T_n}$ and provided the general formula for all minimums of IIDRVs: $P(S> k)=P(T_1> k)^n$. This is interpreted as the first instance of failure out of the $n$ lifetimes, i.e. the minimum lifetime.



Then, with $P(T_1leq k)=1-(1-p)^k$ (assuming CDF corresponding to when the $T_i$ take values in $mathbb{N}$), we first have $P(T_1>k)=(1-p)^k=:q^k$ where $q=1-p$ for ease of notation. Then substituting, we have $P(S>k)=(q^k)^n=(q^n)^k$, so that indeed $P(Sleq k)=1-(q^n)^k$ is the CDF of a Geometric RV with new parameter $tilde{p}=1-q^n=1-(1-p)^n$.



How can we tackle $U$? Well, let's see how that minimum formula was derived in the first place and hope that informs us on a similar manner to derive a formula for the maximum of IIDRVs.



If the minimum of $n$ variables is greater than a number $k$, then all of those variables must be greater than $k$, i.e the following set equalities hold
$${min{T_1,dotsc, T_n} >k}={T_1 >k,dotsc, T_n>k}.$$
That's just from the definition of minimum. Thus, taking probabilities and writing $S=min{S_1,dotsc, S_n}$, we have
$$P(S >k)=P(T_1>k, dotsc, T_n>k),$$
and finally the IID assumption greatly simplifies the RHS further, to
$$P(S>k)=P(T_1>K)P(T_2>k)cdot dotsc cdot P(T_n >k),$$
first using independence, then using the identical distributions, we finally get
$$P(S>k)=P(T_1>k)^n.$$



Can you now, after seeing this argument for minimum, derive the analogous formula for maximums? Please comment for further clarification.



EDIT
If $U=max{T_1,dots, T_n}$, then we know that $P(Uleq k)=P(T_1 leq k)^n=(1-q^{k})^n$ by definition of maximum and since the $T_i$ are IID. To find $mathbb{E}(U)$ we use the alternative formula for expectations for discrete non-negative RVs:
$$E(U)=sum_{k=1}^infty P(Ugeq k).$$
Since $P(Ugeq k)=1-P(Uleq k-1)=1-(1-q^{k-1})^n,$ we must compute the series,
$$sum_{k=1}^infty 1-(1-q^{k-1})^n.$$
In principle this series can always be computed by using the binomial theorem to expand $(1-q^{k-1})^n$ and then use theory of geometric series to compute the resulting series' in closed form. For $n=2$, we have
$$mathbb{E}(U)=frac{3-2p}{p(2-p)}approx 2.667$$
when $p=0.5$, for example.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Super clear. I managed to solve the one with U as well, finding that $f_U(k) = [1-(1-p)^k]^n - [1-(1-p)^{k-1}]^n$ which is indeed the right solution. Let's say I want to find $mathbb{E}[U]$ as well. By linearity, I write: $$ mathbb{E}[U] = mathbb{E}[U+S] - mathbb{E}[S] $$ The expected value of S is easy because it is geometrically distributed. How should I find the expected value of the sum of U and S? (Is this a good procedure to simplify the problem?) Edit: with n = 2
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Dec 5 '18 at 13:38












  • $begingroup$
    @qcc101 Thanks. I have added an edit demonstrating how to compute $mathbb{E}(U)$ with the analytic answer for $n=2$, as an example and its numerical value for when $p=0.5$. Your idea would require knowing the PDF or CDF of $U+S$ which is not immediately known. Better to compute the expected value by definition or become familiar with the alternative formula I cite—extremely useful in the case of non-negative RVs and perusing the Wikipedia link, you will notice an analogous version for continuous non-negative RVs, as well. Hope this helps.
    $endgroup$
    – LoveTooNap29
    Dec 5 '18 at 18:47














1





+50







1





+50



1




+50



$begingroup$

First of all defining $S$ as the "first n instants [sic] of failure" makes little sense, as you have only been given $n$ lifetimes, so for there to be $n$ instances of failure would require all $n$ lifetimes to terminate. This confusion is likely why Drhab commented as such, suggesting instead to look at $S=min{T_1,dotsc,T_n}$ and provided the general formula for all minimums of IIDRVs: $P(S> k)=P(T_1> k)^n$. This is interpreted as the first instance of failure out of the $n$ lifetimes, i.e. the minimum lifetime.



Then, with $P(T_1leq k)=1-(1-p)^k$ (assuming CDF corresponding to when the $T_i$ take values in $mathbb{N}$), we first have $P(T_1>k)=(1-p)^k=:q^k$ where $q=1-p$ for ease of notation. Then substituting, we have $P(S>k)=(q^k)^n=(q^n)^k$, so that indeed $P(Sleq k)=1-(q^n)^k$ is the CDF of a Geometric RV with new parameter $tilde{p}=1-q^n=1-(1-p)^n$.



How can we tackle $U$? Well, let's see how that minimum formula was derived in the first place and hope that informs us on a similar manner to derive a formula for the maximum of IIDRVs.



If the minimum of $n$ variables is greater than a number $k$, then all of those variables must be greater than $k$, i.e the following set equalities hold
$${min{T_1,dotsc, T_n} >k}={T_1 >k,dotsc, T_n>k}.$$
That's just from the definition of minimum. Thus, taking probabilities and writing $S=min{S_1,dotsc, S_n}$, we have
$$P(S >k)=P(T_1>k, dotsc, T_n>k),$$
and finally the IID assumption greatly simplifies the RHS further, to
$$P(S>k)=P(T_1>K)P(T_2>k)cdot dotsc cdot P(T_n >k),$$
first using independence, then using the identical distributions, we finally get
$$P(S>k)=P(T_1>k)^n.$$



Can you now, after seeing this argument for minimum, derive the analogous formula for maximums? Please comment for further clarification.



EDIT
If $U=max{T_1,dots, T_n}$, then we know that $P(Uleq k)=P(T_1 leq k)^n=(1-q^{k})^n$ by definition of maximum and since the $T_i$ are IID. To find $mathbb{E}(U)$ we use the alternative formula for expectations for discrete non-negative RVs:
$$E(U)=sum_{k=1}^infty P(Ugeq k).$$
Since $P(Ugeq k)=1-P(Uleq k-1)=1-(1-q^{k-1})^n,$ we must compute the series,
$$sum_{k=1}^infty 1-(1-q^{k-1})^n.$$
In principle this series can always be computed by using the binomial theorem to expand $(1-q^{k-1})^n$ and then use theory of geometric series to compute the resulting series' in closed form. For $n=2$, we have
$$mathbb{E}(U)=frac{3-2p}{p(2-p)}approx 2.667$$
when $p=0.5$, for example.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



First of all defining $S$ as the "first n instants [sic] of failure" makes little sense, as you have only been given $n$ lifetimes, so for there to be $n$ instances of failure would require all $n$ lifetimes to terminate. This confusion is likely why Drhab commented as such, suggesting instead to look at $S=min{T_1,dotsc,T_n}$ and provided the general formula for all minimums of IIDRVs: $P(S> k)=P(T_1> k)^n$. This is interpreted as the first instance of failure out of the $n$ lifetimes, i.e. the minimum lifetime.



Then, with $P(T_1leq k)=1-(1-p)^k$ (assuming CDF corresponding to when the $T_i$ take values in $mathbb{N}$), we first have $P(T_1>k)=(1-p)^k=:q^k$ where $q=1-p$ for ease of notation. Then substituting, we have $P(S>k)=(q^k)^n=(q^n)^k$, so that indeed $P(Sleq k)=1-(q^n)^k$ is the CDF of a Geometric RV with new parameter $tilde{p}=1-q^n=1-(1-p)^n$.



How can we tackle $U$? Well, let's see how that minimum formula was derived in the first place and hope that informs us on a similar manner to derive a formula for the maximum of IIDRVs.



If the minimum of $n$ variables is greater than a number $k$, then all of those variables must be greater than $k$, i.e the following set equalities hold
$${min{T_1,dotsc, T_n} >k}={T_1 >k,dotsc, T_n>k}.$$
That's just from the definition of minimum. Thus, taking probabilities and writing $S=min{S_1,dotsc, S_n}$, we have
$$P(S >k)=P(T_1>k, dotsc, T_n>k),$$
and finally the IID assumption greatly simplifies the RHS further, to
$$P(S>k)=P(T_1>K)P(T_2>k)cdot dotsc cdot P(T_n >k),$$
first using independence, then using the identical distributions, we finally get
$$P(S>k)=P(T_1>k)^n.$$



Can you now, after seeing this argument for minimum, derive the analogous formula for maximums? Please comment for further clarification.



EDIT
If $U=max{T_1,dots, T_n}$, then we know that $P(Uleq k)=P(T_1 leq k)^n=(1-q^{k})^n$ by definition of maximum and since the $T_i$ are IID. To find $mathbb{E}(U)$ we use the alternative formula for expectations for discrete non-negative RVs:
$$E(U)=sum_{k=1}^infty P(Ugeq k).$$
Since $P(Ugeq k)=1-P(Uleq k-1)=1-(1-q^{k-1})^n,$ we must compute the series,
$$sum_{k=1}^infty 1-(1-q^{k-1})^n.$$
In principle this series can always be computed by using the binomial theorem to expand $(1-q^{k-1})^n$ and then use theory of geometric series to compute the resulting series' in closed form. For $n=2$, we have
$$mathbb{E}(U)=frac{3-2p}{p(2-p)}approx 2.667$$
when $p=0.5$, for example.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Dec 5 '18 at 18:41

























answered Dec 5 '18 at 0:33









LoveTooNap29LoveTooNap29

1,1261614




1,1261614












  • $begingroup$
    Super clear. I managed to solve the one with U as well, finding that $f_U(k) = [1-(1-p)^k]^n - [1-(1-p)^{k-1}]^n$ which is indeed the right solution. Let's say I want to find $mathbb{E}[U]$ as well. By linearity, I write: $$ mathbb{E}[U] = mathbb{E}[U+S] - mathbb{E}[S] $$ The expected value of S is easy because it is geometrically distributed. How should I find the expected value of the sum of U and S? (Is this a good procedure to simplify the problem?) Edit: with n = 2
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Dec 5 '18 at 13:38












  • $begingroup$
    @qcc101 Thanks. I have added an edit demonstrating how to compute $mathbb{E}(U)$ with the analytic answer for $n=2$, as an example and its numerical value for when $p=0.5$. Your idea would require knowing the PDF or CDF of $U+S$ which is not immediately known. Better to compute the expected value by definition or become familiar with the alternative formula I cite—extremely useful in the case of non-negative RVs and perusing the Wikipedia link, you will notice an analogous version for continuous non-negative RVs, as well. Hope this helps.
    $endgroup$
    – LoveTooNap29
    Dec 5 '18 at 18:47


















  • $begingroup$
    Super clear. I managed to solve the one with U as well, finding that $f_U(k) = [1-(1-p)^k]^n - [1-(1-p)^{k-1}]^n$ which is indeed the right solution. Let's say I want to find $mathbb{E}[U]$ as well. By linearity, I write: $$ mathbb{E}[U] = mathbb{E}[U+S] - mathbb{E}[S] $$ The expected value of S is easy because it is geometrically distributed. How should I find the expected value of the sum of U and S? (Is this a good procedure to simplify the problem?) Edit: with n = 2
    $endgroup$
    – qcc101
    Dec 5 '18 at 13:38












  • $begingroup$
    @qcc101 Thanks. I have added an edit demonstrating how to compute $mathbb{E}(U)$ with the analytic answer for $n=2$, as an example and its numerical value for when $p=0.5$. Your idea would require knowing the PDF or CDF of $U+S$ which is not immediately known. Better to compute the expected value by definition or become familiar with the alternative formula I cite—extremely useful in the case of non-negative RVs and perusing the Wikipedia link, you will notice an analogous version for continuous non-negative RVs, as well. Hope this helps.
    $endgroup$
    – LoveTooNap29
    Dec 5 '18 at 18:47
















$begingroup$
Super clear. I managed to solve the one with U as well, finding that $f_U(k) = [1-(1-p)^k]^n - [1-(1-p)^{k-1}]^n$ which is indeed the right solution. Let's say I want to find $mathbb{E}[U]$ as well. By linearity, I write: $$ mathbb{E}[U] = mathbb{E}[U+S] - mathbb{E}[S] $$ The expected value of S is easy because it is geometrically distributed. How should I find the expected value of the sum of U and S? (Is this a good procedure to simplify the problem?) Edit: with n = 2
$endgroup$
– qcc101
Dec 5 '18 at 13:38






$begingroup$
Super clear. I managed to solve the one with U as well, finding that $f_U(k) = [1-(1-p)^k]^n - [1-(1-p)^{k-1}]^n$ which is indeed the right solution. Let's say I want to find $mathbb{E}[U]$ as well. By linearity, I write: $$ mathbb{E}[U] = mathbb{E}[U+S] - mathbb{E}[S] $$ The expected value of S is easy because it is geometrically distributed. How should I find the expected value of the sum of U and S? (Is this a good procedure to simplify the problem?) Edit: with n = 2
$endgroup$
– qcc101
Dec 5 '18 at 13:38














$begingroup$
@qcc101 Thanks. I have added an edit demonstrating how to compute $mathbb{E}(U)$ with the analytic answer for $n=2$, as an example and its numerical value for when $p=0.5$. Your idea would require knowing the PDF or CDF of $U+S$ which is not immediately known. Better to compute the expected value by definition or become familiar with the alternative formula I cite—extremely useful in the case of non-negative RVs and perusing the Wikipedia link, you will notice an analogous version for continuous non-negative RVs, as well. Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
– LoveTooNap29
Dec 5 '18 at 18:47




$begingroup$
@qcc101 Thanks. I have added an edit demonstrating how to compute $mathbb{E}(U)$ with the analytic answer for $n=2$, as an example and its numerical value for when $p=0.5$. Your idea would require knowing the PDF or CDF of $U+S$ which is not immediately known. Better to compute the expected value by definition or become familiar with the alternative formula I cite—extremely useful in the case of non-negative RVs and perusing the Wikipedia link, you will notice an analogous version for continuous non-negative RVs, as well. Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
– LoveTooNap29
Dec 5 '18 at 18:47


















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2981493%2ft-1-t-n-time-of-life-of-instruments-with-geometric-distribution-of-para%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Le Mesnil-Réaume

Ida-Boy-Ed-Garten

web3.py web3.isConnected() returns false always