Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?











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I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies. While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropiately compensated for their work.



But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook. Perhaps 5-15 % of the sales price of each unit sold. This usually corresponds to roughly 5-10 dollars.



With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading? If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?










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  • 30




    Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
    – Buffy
    2 days ago






  • 45




    You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
    – anaximander
    21 hours ago






  • 2




    "...would it be appropiate to..." This seems to be a rather subjective term. You should define "appropriate" before (and then the answer will probably become clear to you already). For a Q&A like the StackeExchanges this is not a good fit, since answers will mostly be opinionated and akin to just polls where nobody learns anything. One can possibly pose different questions that would be quite interesting (something like "Why are scientific text books so expensive?" or "Why are authors only paid a small share of the total selling price?").
    – Trilarion
    21 hours ago








  • 5




    Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
    – John Meacham
    20 hours ago






  • 3




    @JohnMeacham It's the academic textbook industry that people have a problem with, not publishing as a whole. I have vivid memories of paying $110 for a black-and-white, looseleaf version of a calculus textbook (the bound version was significantly more). I needed the current version for the homework problems. The content of the book had not changed since the previous version.
    – Carl Kevinson
    11 hours ago















up vote
54
down vote

favorite
6












I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies. While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropiately compensated for their work.



But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook. Perhaps 5-15 % of the sales price of each unit sold. This usually corresponds to roughly 5-10 dollars.



With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading? If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?










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  • 30




    Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
    – Buffy
    2 days ago






  • 45




    You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
    – anaximander
    21 hours ago






  • 2




    "...would it be appropiate to..." This seems to be a rather subjective term. You should define "appropriate" before (and then the answer will probably become clear to you already). For a Q&A like the StackeExchanges this is not a good fit, since answers will mostly be opinionated and akin to just polls where nobody learns anything. One can possibly pose different questions that would be quite interesting (something like "Why are scientific text books so expensive?" or "Why are authors only paid a small share of the total selling price?").
    – Trilarion
    21 hours ago








  • 5




    Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
    – John Meacham
    20 hours ago






  • 3




    @JohnMeacham It's the academic textbook industry that people have a problem with, not publishing as a whole. I have vivid memories of paying $110 for a black-and-white, looseleaf version of a calculus textbook (the bound version was significantly more). I needed the current version for the homework problems. The content of the book had not changed since the previous version.
    – Carl Kevinson
    11 hours ago













up vote
54
down vote

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up vote
54
down vote

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6






6





I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies. While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropiately compensated for their work.



But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook. Perhaps 5-15 % of the sales price of each unit sold. This usually corresponds to roughly 5-10 dollars.



With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading? If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?










share|improve this question









New contributor




James is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies. While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropiately compensated for their work.



But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook. Perhaps 5-15 % of the sales price of each unit sold. This usually corresponds to roughly 5-10 dollars.



With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading? If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?







ethics books intellectual-property






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edited yesterday









Buffy

29.6k694158




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asked 2 days ago









James

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  • 30




    Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
    – Buffy
    2 days ago






  • 45




    You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
    – anaximander
    21 hours ago






  • 2




    "...would it be appropiate to..." This seems to be a rather subjective term. You should define "appropriate" before (and then the answer will probably become clear to you already). For a Q&A like the StackeExchanges this is not a good fit, since answers will mostly be opinionated and akin to just polls where nobody learns anything. One can possibly pose different questions that would be quite interesting (something like "Why are scientific text books so expensive?" or "Why are authors only paid a small share of the total selling price?").
    – Trilarion
    21 hours ago








  • 5




    Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
    – John Meacham
    20 hours ago






  • 3




    @JohnMeacham It's the academic textbook industry that people have a problem with, not publishing as a whole. I have vivid memories of paying $110 for a black-and-white, looseleaf version of a calculus textbook (the bound version was significantly more). I needed the current version for the homework problems. The content of the book had not changed since the previous version.
    – Carl Kevinson
    11 hours ago














  • 30




    Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
    – Buffy
    2 days ago






  • 45




    You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
    – anaximander
    21 hours ago






  • 2




    "...would it be appropiate to..." This seems to be a rather subjective term. You should define "appropriate" before (and then the answer will probably become clear to you already). For a Q&A like the StackeExchanges this is not a good fit, since answers will mostly be opinionated and akin to just polls where nobody learns anything. One can possibly pose different questions that would be quite interesting (something like "Why are scientific text books so expensive?" or "Why are authors only paid a small share of the total selling price?").
    – Trilarion
    21 hours ago








  • 5




    Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
    – John Meacham
    20 hours ago






  • 3




    @JohnMeacham It's the academic textbook industry that people have a problem with, not publishing as a whole. I have vivid memories of paying $110 for a black-and-white, looseleaf version of a calculus textbook (the bound version was significantly more). I needed the current version for the homework problems. The content of the book had not changed since the previous version.
    – Carl Kevinson
    11 hours ago








30




30




Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
2 days ago




Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
2 days ago




45




45




You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
21 hours ago




You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
21 hours ago




2




2




"...would it be appropiate to..." This seems to be a rather subjective term. You should define "appropriate" before (and then the answer will probably become clear to you already). For a Q&A like the StackeExchanges this is not a good fit, since answers will mostly be opinionated and akin to just polls where nobody learns anything. One can possibly pose different questions that would be quite interesting (something like "Why are scientific text books so expensive?" or "Why are authors only paid a small share of the total selling price?").
– Trilarion
21 hours ago






"...would it be appropiate to..." This seems to be a rather subjective term. You should define "appropriate" before (and then the answer will probably become clear to you already). For a Q&A like the StackeExchanges this is not a good fit, since answers will mostly be opinionated and akin to just polls where nobody learns anything. One can possibly pose different questions that would be quite interesting (something like "Why are scientific text books so expensive?" or "Why are authors only paid a small share of the total selling price?").
– Trilarion
21 hours ago






5




5




Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
– John Meacham
20 hours ago




Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
– John Meacham
20 hours ago




3




3




@JohnMeacham It's the academic textbook industry that people have a problem with, not publishing as a whole. I have vivid memories of paying $110 for a black-and-white, looseleaf version of a calculus textbook (the bound version was significantly more). I needed the current version for the homework problems. The content of the book had not changed since the previous version.
– Carl Kevinson
11 hours ago




@JohnMeacham It's the academic textbook industry that people have a problem with, not publishing as a whole. I have vivid memories of paying $110 for a black-and-white, looseleaf version of a calculus textbook (the bound version was significantly more). I needed the current version for the homework problems. The content of the book had not changed since the previous version.
– Carl Kevinson
11 hours ago










13 Answers
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With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.



Second, you cannot unilaterally change the terms of sale. When the professor published the book, they agreed to sell it through the publisher in exchange for certain terms. The legal and (in my view) ethical options are to accept or decline these terms; you cannot invent and execute your own terms instead, even if they seem reasonable. In short, this is a rationalization. (That said, I personally am sympathetic to your concerns about publishing companies exploiting college students.)



Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.




If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.




  • Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.

  • If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.

  • If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.






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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    – aeismail
    15 hours ago






  • 4




    In most jurisdictions, admitting to piracy like this would have zero legal value - you'd have to press charges and get actual proof while the student could deny everything. And in many jurisdictions, such as mine, downloading shared data is never illegal, only sharing someone else's work.
    – Tomáš Zato
    11 hours ago






  • 1




    Ironic really - seems to me it's usually the students exploiting the publishers, by taking their product without payment. Such as with the OP.
    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    9 hours ago








  • 2




    @LightnessRacesinOrbit: There's a principal-agent problem: the people who "take" the publisher's product (= students) are not the same people who decide which publisher's product those people must take (= professors, instructors, administrators, etc.). And the publishers know how to exploit this moral hazard to their maximum advantage. So while I'm not advocating piracy, I don't think you need to worry that publishers are going hungry due to the practice . . .
    – ruakh
    7 hours ago










  • @ruakh if you lump the entire publishing industry as one, sure. In real life it's not so certain, e.g. many university presses are routinely loss-making, and much of their revenue derives from a select few popular titles. You can imagine the damage if one of these titles ends up being widely pirated - the university might even decide that it's just not worth subsidizing a university press and move the money elsewhere.
    – Allure
    1 hour ago


















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I find the moralistic tone of some of the other answers a bit distasteful, and also unhelpful. It’s pretty clear to me that you didn’t come here to ask for a general lecture about the pros and cons of piracy of textbooks and other digital content, and that is the sort of knowledge that already exists in a zillion different places and isn’t worth repeating. You had specific questions that aren’t addressed anywhere else, so I’ll try to answer them.




With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




I don’t find anything inappropriate about the act of sending $10 to a book author, no matter the reason. However, I should emphasize that that doesn’t mean that I think everything you’ve described yourself doing is “appropriate”. And to the extent that some of the other things you are doing are inappropriate, they will still be inappropriate even if you send $10 to book authors.




If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




Well, I am a professor who authored a book.* I would be a little amused, but mostly indifferent. I wouldn’t think more of you for doing it, but I wouldn’t think less of you (compared to my opinion of someone who pirated my book but didn’t send me $10, that is) either. I would likely think that you had decent intentions, but were expressing them in a way that was somewhat misguided.




Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?




The sending of $10 to authors by itself is not a terrible idea and on the face of it is mostly just harmless and inconsequential (as opposed to the act of piracy itself, which is a lot more consequential but is not what you asked about, so I won’t discuss it). I’d still advise against it, but not for any of the reasons other people mentioned. Mostly I think that if you went ahead with it it would be a way for you to delude yourself into thinking that this act cleanses your conscience and absolves you of ethical responsibility for the act of illegally downloading the book. It is a kind of a cop-out: you want to download books illegally but also want to think that you’re an ethical person, so you’ve come up with this plan to allow yourself to think that you’ve achieved both goals but for a fraction of the “normal” price. Well, I’m afraid you don’t get off so easily. Ethics doesn’t work that way.



To summarize, I can’t tell you what you should do, but whatever you do, my advice is, own your actions. If you choose to download books illegally, do so after informing yourself about precisely what that means and what the consequences (ethical and otherwise) are — for yourself, for book authors, for publishers, for other readers and people who would have become readers of books that might never get published, etc — and make sure you can defend your decision and be at peace with it. But don’t go for half-baked solutions like sending some pittance to the book author to help yourself feel better and pretend you don’t need to think about the issue anymore. The truth is, you do need to think more about the issue. It is a complicated issue and the level of thinking about it where I think you’re currently at is only beginning to scratch the surface of its true complexity.



Thanks for the interesting question!





*Actually my book cannot be pirated since I give the digital copy away for free on my website (for a variety of reasons, including the knowledge that if I don’t then a pirated copy would likely be available anyway), with my publisher’s permission of course. What I wrote above about how I would feel refers to my best attempt at imagining a hypothetical scenario in which I wrote a book that I was not giving away digitally for free. But I think it’s a fairly accurate guess anyway.






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  • 28




    The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
    – Bent
    yesterday






  • 9




    What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
    – Captain Emacs
    yesterday






  • 10




    @Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
    – Dan Romik
    yesterday






  • 3




    "think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
    – Bent
    yesterday






  • 4




    cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
    – Bent
    yesterday




















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After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:




  • The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.


  • They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.


  • You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.


  • The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.



In short then, I wouldn't do this.



However, also I disagree with Buffy's answer. Ebooks are a non-rival good. Hence the ethics of "stealing" them is pretty complicated, and in my view there are situations where "stealing" a non-rival good is permissible or even obligatory. It's inaccurate to call this "simple theft" in my opinion. In any event, whether you send them money or not, I wouldn't feel too guilty about this.






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  • 8




    This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
    – cag51
    2 days ago






  • 4




    @cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
    – goblin
    yesterday








  • 19




    @goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
    – Patrick Trentin
    yesterday






  • 2




    @PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
    – Nobody
    yesterday






  • 2




    @StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
    – cag51
    yesterday


















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Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.





This answer has generated a lot of controversy. Let me explain a bit of the background and thinking behind it. It will take me more than one edit to be complete, so please be patient. Most of this annex is derived from comments I've made elsewhere here.



First, I don't make any legal argument at all. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.



The OP and others here seems to believe that the publishing industry is itself immoral and should be combatted. I agree in part with that, but only in part. But that doesn't change the ethics of this action (downloading without payment). But most people who think that publishers just rip them off, haven't thought about the problem very deeply. The main costs in publishing (paper or electronic) are acquisitions, reviewing, editing, layout/graphics, manufacture/hosting, and marketing. This in addition to the time and effort of the author(s) who produce the work. All of these are expensive undertakings and require skilled professionals.



Some of the work is done by volunteers (often reviewing). But copy editors, who improve the language and layout/book-designers etc. need to be paid. Many of the people in acquisitions, editing, and marketing need to be on the road visiting (and paying for) every conference they can find. And the marketers give away a lot of books, also.



Some here seem to think that the costs of books etc are just too high, but they have always been high. I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.



Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books; several for every successful one. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. Which means that much of the cost of trying to develop most books is never recovered. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.



Another reason for the high cost of all but elementary books is that the total market is both small and divided up by the presence of several book options. Choice again. If we all used Johnson & Kiokemeister's Calculus with Analytic Geometry from 1960 (a good book) then the cost would be very small. But there are new books to choose from, increasing the cost of all since most are unsuccessful, but still eat up development resources.



Some have stated that publishers have a monopoly and that they exploit it. But publishers don't have a legal monopoly. Anyone can attack their business model. Anyone can offer competition. If their profit margins are outrageous then someone has a lot of incentive to do it. But no one has yet been able to put all the pieces together (from acquisition to distribution) to make it any cheaper for buyers. Some models replace paid employees with volunteers and that works up to a point, but hasn't been shown to scale. Apple's profit margin is 22%. McGraw is 25% (one of the highest). Creating things is hard work from a lot of people.



Don't get the idea here that I'm against a system in which IP is free to use. But there needs to be some incentive to produce it or it won't get produced at all. I've written some ebooks, actually, and have produced software that has been downloaded (free) more than 15,000 times. But that was my choice to do, not someone else's decision who tried to override my wishes.



My preferred solution is to work toward a system in which authors are compensated separately from book sales, say via grants funded via tax revenues. This makes the creation of IP truly a social good and a shared responsibility. Books could then be distributed for free or sold for manufacturing cost, or whatever.



My biggest complaint about the publishing industry, actually, is simply that they don't spend enough effort on marketing their titles after two years. Most authors get almost all of their revenue in those first two years because of this. Always on to the new thing.



But still, my argument here is an ethical one, not a legal or economic argument. It is wrong to substitute your decision for that of the creator of something of value - especially if it is of value to you.






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    @Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
    – darij grinberg
    2 days ago








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    I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
    – Dan Romik
    2 days ago








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    Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
    – Ben Crowell
    yesterday










  • I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
    – Wrzlprmft
    yesterday








  • 2




    Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
    – RedSonja
    23 hours ago


















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If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




I'd feel extremely annoyed. You're not only doing something illegal, you're cheating someone of their work. This wouldn't be because of money - it's very unlikely I wrote the book to make money. It'd be about justice and fairness, concepts which are too core to my values to compromise for $10. Plus the fact that you pirated my book means someone with even less scruples than you could also have pirated it.



My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.






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  • 1




    This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
    – lucidbrot
    yesterday






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    I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
    – Ivana
    21 hours ago






  • 4




    @Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
    – JMac
    16 hours ago






  • 2




    OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
    – einpoklum
    15 hours ago










  • @einpoklum some people did work on that book that they could reasonably expect to be compensated for. Pirating the book means they are not being compensated for it. So yes, I consider it cheating. As for "you still have all your work" - see academia.stackexchange.com/questions/19256/…. The idea that "I still have all my grades" is not a good reason to not report on someone else cheating.
    – Allure
    9 hours ago


















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Undertake a sincere and useful civic action as penance for your (somewhat self-righteously defended) abuse. Collect all the students at your university. Sign a petition to your state representative (or equivalent for outside the US). State your case with proof rather than subjective statements such as "... it is well-known that". Demonstrate why you believe that publishers hold the equivalent of a virtual monopoly on textbooks, for example because they keep the costs to enter the textbook publishing business at a prohibitive level. Demonstrate where you find their business model has increased the expense of textbooks unfairly, for example because relatively higher portions of the costs for a textbook are going to pay salaries at upper administrative levels. State a case for how this is causing the cost of education to be well beyond the means of today's college students even with loans. Propose and demand appropriate legislative action to fix the problem.



Start a movement that will do something beyond raising a (rather disrespectful) attitude about the problem and then asking for moral support in a discussion forum for what amounts to a penny that will be given in disdain. In other words, as much as I emphasize with the pain any student faces with covering the costs of textbooks, my proposal absolutely will not make right the action of effectively stealing a textbook. If nothing else, it is only a far better penance than sending money to the author.






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  • 2




    I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
    – Buffy
    yesterday






  • 2




    While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
    – Jeffrey J Weimer
    yesterday








  • 3




    See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
    – Buffy
    yesterday






  • 1




    Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
    – Jeffrey J Weimer
    yesterday






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    Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
    – Buffy
    yesterday


















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It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.



My instinctual guess on receiving an anonymous envelope would be that it's going to be something unpleasant: a scam, or hate mail, or sexual harassment, or crazy ranting, or (in this day and age) maybe anthrax. "Money from a reader who pirated my book" is not going to make the top 10. There's a fair chance that I might destroy it without opening it.



At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.






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    You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.



    The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.



    I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.






    share|improve this answer

















    • 1




      Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
      – Buffy
      yesterday








    • 2




      @Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
      – gnasher729
      yesterday






    • 4




      Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
      – Buffy
      yesterday






    • 5




      @Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
      – Dan Romik
      yesterday








    • 6




      @DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
      – Buffy
      yesterday


















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    Absolutely don't do it!




    I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies.




    Don't be so sure it's illegal. You didn't specify where in the world you live, nor where the books were published, but in some countries it's perfectly legal, and in some other countries it's a gray area, despite opinions to the contrary.




    While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropriately compensated for their work.




    You seem to be assuming there is some damage or loss to the author of someone making a copy of his/her book, for which s/he needs to be compensated. That is the subject of philosophical, political and at times legal debate.




    But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook.




    No, this is not well known at all; some academics lose money due to publishing books and/or get no money per copy sold. What is, however, generally the case is that Professors are employed full-time and need not worry about their material welfare due to more or less money coming in from book sales.




    With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




    So, it would probably not be necessary even from a moral/social/political perspective. But it would dangerous, since you would be waving a flag above your head calling to be investigated for copyright violation. Regardless of what such a turn of events will result in, it would mean hassle, stress, expenses and discomfort for you and your family, roommates, friends etc.




    If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




    I would feel sorry for having put a student of my work at risk of legal action, fine or jail time; and I would also feel sorry for having taken 10 dollars from a likely much less well-off person who probably needs the money more than I do.



    ... instead, do something else:



    You know, "pay it forward":




    • If you know of a cause the author supports - consider donating to it.

    • If you're writing some academic material or software - consider making it freely-downloadable, officially.

    • If you're just an undergrad - perhaps do some kind of volunteer work, like helping high-school students who are having trouble keep up with some tutoring.






    share|improve this answer





















    • "Don't be so sure it's illegal." Pretty confident that worldwide things are inclining towards downloading ebooks without paying being illegal, see e.g. academia.stackexchange.com/questions/86414/…?, which doesn't deal with this exact question but is quite close.
      – Allure
      8 hours ago








    • 1




      @Allure: Even the top answer to the question you linked to says "There does not seem to be one court case where one was prosecuted for just downloading such material.", and that some legal scholars (and zero court decision) consider it as "probably illegal (as opposed to: "illegal"). And that's in a country of your choice.
      – einpoklum
      7 hours ago












    • That answer is outdated, obviously. It was written in Mach 2017. See my answer, which quoted an April 2017 court case.
      – Allure
      7 hours ago










    • Also the ECJ rules for the entire EU, so it's more than just one country.
      – Allure
      7 hours ago










    • Yeah, so, your answer there has sources which regard offering streaming services/products of unlicensed films for profit, which is what the ECJ ruled on. They're basically relevant to the question of making copies of academic materials for purposes of research or study.
      – einpoklum
      7 hours ago




















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    TL;DR:

    Ask your librarian how to obtain mandatory textbooks, articles etc. You will be surprised what the can actually do for you.





    I doubt you are obliged to buy the book but rather bring the book with you to the course. Am I nitpicking? Probably yes.



    There is a significant difference. In the second, highly probable, case you can borrow the book in the university library for a whole semester, month, week, etc. Usually, textbooks are published within the university publisher and the library usually keeps enough copies to supply the students. Do go ask your librarian whether they possess the textbook needed and borrow it.



    When you are there, do yourself a favour and ask for online access to scientific journals and publisher houses outside your university. As a student you should have some access to such resources as well - your university is paying A LOT for such access. In the end you can find you didn't pirate at all. You should find that - the school shall provide you anything mandatory to the whole study - books, hardware, software, and tools.



    I have also heard many times "You should buy this textbook..." but it was in lectures the teacher expects we, students, will use the book not just in one semester and/or we will write notes in there. Many times they were right, sometimes they weren't.






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      I think a reasonable answer would be to create an anonymous email account and ask those authors this question. That said, I wouldn't worry about any full (tenured) professors' going hungry, nor would I worry about the publishers, who have an obscene profit motive with hugely inflated costs (and a very wasteful business model). There is a reason why there is huge consolidation in publishing: it is a capital intensive, highly profitable business. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and a desire to make a contribution, then find some way of puting that money toward the book purchases of someone less able to afford them.






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      jeffmcneill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.














      • 13




        The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
        – Pere
        yesterday


















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      There is a financial aspect you should also consider: these professors will receive unexpected money they need to somehow




      • declare or not

      • explain the provenance of, if someone (tax office, financial fraud groups, etc.) asks them


      Both cases are probably over the top for 10 USD (and you will likely be only one to send them the money) but can be stressful to them.



      Send the money to a charity instead.






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        Why don't you just send it as an anonymous gift / donation? Maybe write a small note thanking for authors' work in general. You don't need to mention specifics.



        This is what many people do for creative folks who's works they enjoy. Like comics authors, painters, musicians, youtubers, writers. I don't see why it would be wrong to want to support a professor in a similar way.






        share|improve this answer




















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          With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




          First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.



          Second, you cannot unilaterally change the terms of sale. When the professor published the book, they agreed to sell it through the publisher in exchange for certain terms. The legal and (in my view) ethical options are to accept or decline these terms; you cannot invent and execute your own terms instead, even if they seem reasonable. In short, this is a rationalization. (That said, I personally am sympathetic to your concerns about publishing companies exploiting college students.)



          Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.




          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.




          • Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.

          • If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.

          • If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.






          share|improve this answer























          • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
            – aeismail
            15 hours ago






          • 4




            In most jurisdictions, admitting to piracy like this would have zero legal value - you'd have to press charges and get actual proof while the student could deny everything. And in many jurisdictions, such as mine, downloading shared data is never illegal, only sharing someone else's work.
            – Tomáš Zato
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            Ironic really - seems to me it's usually the students exploiting the publishers, by taking their product without payment. Such as with the OP.
            – Lightness Races in Orbit
            9 hours ago








          • 2




            @LightnessRacesinOrbit: There's a principal-agent problem: the people who "take" the publisher's product (= students) are not the same people who decide which publisher's product those people must take (= professors, instructors, administrators, etc.). And the publishers know how to exploit this moral hazard to their maximum advantage. So while I'm not advocating piracy, I don't think you need to worry that publishers are going hungry due to the practice . . .
            – ruakh
            7 hours ago










          • @ruakh if you lump the entire publishing industry as one, sure. In real life it's not so certain, e.g. many university presses are routinely loss-making, and much of their revenue derives from a select few popular titles. You can imagine the damage if one of these titles ends up being widely pirated - the university might even decide that it's just not worth subsidizing a university press and move the money elsewhere.
            – Allure
            1 hour ago















          up vote
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          With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




          First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.



          Second, you cannot unilaterally change the terms of sale. When the professor published the book, they agreed to sell it through the publisher in exchange for certain terms. The legal and (in my view) ethical options are to accept or decline these terms; you cannot invent and execute your own terms instead, even if they seem reasonable. In short, this is a rationalization. (That said, I personally am sympathetic to your concerns about publishing companies exploiting college students.)



          Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.




          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.




          • Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.

          • If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.

          • If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.






          share|improve this answer























          • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
            – aeismail
            15 hours ago






          • 4




            In most jurisdictions, admitting to piracy like this would have zero legal value - you'd have to press charges and get actual proof while the student could deny everything. And in many jurisdictions, such as mine, downloading shared data is never illegal, only sharing someone else's work.
            – Tomáš Zato
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            Ironic really - seems to me it's usually the students exploiting the publishers, by taking their product without payment. Such as with the OP.
            – Lightness Races in Orbit
            9 hours ago








          • 2




            @LightnessRacesinOrbit: There's a principal-agent problem: the people who "take" the publisher's product (= students) are not the same people who decide which publisher's product those people must take (= professors, instructors, administrators, etc.). And the publishers know how to exploit this moral hazard to their maximum advantage. So while I'm not advocating piracy, I don't think you need to worry that publishers are going hungry due to the practice . . .
            – ruakh
            7 hours ago










          • @ruakh if you lump the entire publishing industry as one, sure. In real life it's not so certain, e.g. many university presses are routinely loss-making, and much of their revenue derives from a select few popular titles. You can imagine the damage if one of these titles ends up being widely pirated - the university might even decide that it's just not worth subsidizing a university press and move the money elsewhere.
            – Allure
            1 hour ago













          up vote
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          up vote
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          With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




          First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.



          Second, you cannot unilaterally change the terms of sale. When the professor published the book, they agreed to sell it through the publisher in exchange for certain terms. The legal and (in my view) ethical options are to accept or decline these terms; you cannot invent and execute your own terms instead, even if they seem reasonable. In short, this is a rationalization. (That said, I personally am sympathetic to your concerns about publishing companies exploiting college students.)



          Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.




          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.




          • Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.

          • If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.

          • If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.






          share|improve this answer















          With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




          First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.



          Second, you cannot unilaterally change the terms of sale. When the professor published the book, they agreed to sell it through the publisher in exchange for certain terms. The legal and (in my view) ethical options are to accept or decline these terms; you cannot invent and execute your own terms instead, even if they seem reasonable. In short, this is a rationalization. (That said, I personally am sympathetic to your concerns about publishing companies exploiting college students.)



          Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.




          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.




          • Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.

          • If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.

          • If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 2 days ago

























          answered 2 days ago









          cag51

          9,40142244




          9,40142244












          • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
            – aeismail
            15 hours ago






          • 4




            In most jurisdictions, admitting to piracy like this would have zero legal value - you'd have to press charges and get actual proof while the student could deny everything. And in many jurisdictions, such as mine, downloading shared data is never illegal, only sharing someone else's work.
            – Tomáš Zato
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            Ironic really - seems to me it's usually the students exploiting the publishers, by taking their product without payment. Such as with the OP.
            – Lightness Races in Orbit
            9 hours ago








          • 2




            @LightnessRacesinOrbit: There's a principal-agent problem: the people who "take" the publisher's product (= students) are not the same people who decide which publisher's product those people must take (= professors, instructors, administrators, etc.). And the publishers know how to exploit this moral hazard to their maximum advantage. So while I'm not advocating piracy, I don't think you need to worry that publishers are going hungry due to the practice . . .
            – ruakh
            7 hours ago










          • @ruakh if you lump the entire publishing industry as one, sure. In real life it's not so certain, e.g. many university presses are routinely loss-making, and much of their revenue derives from a select few popular titles. You can imagine the damage if one of these titles ends up being widely pirated - the university might even decide that it's just not worth subsidizing a university press and move the money elsewhere.
            – Allure
            1 hour ago


















          • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
            – aeismail
            15 hours ago






          • 4




            In most jurisdictions, admitting to piracy like this would have zero legal value - you'd have to press charges and get actual proof while the student could deny everything. And in many jurisdictions, such as mine, downloading shared data is never illegal, only sharing someone else's work.
            – Tomáš Zato
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            Ironic really - seems to me it's usually the students exploiting the publishers, by taking their product without payment. Such as with the OP.
            – Lightness Races in Orbit
            9 hours ago








          • 2




            @LightnessRacesinOrbit: There's a principal-agent problem: the people who "take" the publisher's product (= students) are not the same people who decide which publisher's product those people must take (= professors, instructors, administrators, etc.). And the publishers know how to exploit this moral hazard to their maximum advantage. So while I'm not advocating piracy, I don't think you need to worry that publishers are going hungry due to the practice . . .
            – ruakh
            7 hours ago










          • @ruakh if you lump the entire publishing industry as one, sure. In real life it's not so certain, e.g. many university presses are routinely loss-making, and much of their revenue derives from a select few popular titles. You can imagine the damage if one of these titles ends up being widely pirated - the university might even decide that it's just not worth subsidizing a university press and move the money elsewhere.
            – Allure
            1 hour ago
















          Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
          – aeismail
          15 hours ago




          Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
          – aeismail
          15 hours ago




          4




          4




          In most jurisdictions, admitting to piracy like this would have zero legal value - you'd have to press charges and get actual proof while the student could deny everything. And in many jurisdictions, such as mine, downloading shared data is never illegal, only sharing someone else's work.
          – Tomáš Zato
          11 hours ago




          In most jurisdictions, admitting to piracy like this would have zero legal value - you'd have to press charges and get actual proof while the student could deny everything. And in many jurisdictions, such as mine, downloading shared data is never illegal, only sharing someone else's work.
          – Tomáš Zato
          11 hours ago




          1




          1




          Ironic really - seems to me it's usually the students exploiting the publishers, by taking their product without payment. Such as with the OP.
          – Lightness Races in Orbit
          9 hours ago






          Ironic really - seems to me it's usually the students exploiting the publishers, by taking their product without payment. Such as with the OP.
          – Lightness Races in Orbit
          9 hours ago






          2




          2




          @LightnessRacesinOrbit: There's a principal-agent problem: the people who "take" the publisher's product (= students) are not the same people who decide which publisher's product those people must take (= professors, instructors, administrators, etc.). And the publishers know how to exploit this moral hazard to their maximum advantage. So while I'm not advocating piracy, I don't think you need to worry that publishers are going hungry due to the practice . . .
          – ruakh
          7 hours ago




          @LightnessRacesinOrbit: There's a principal-agent problem: the people who "take" the publisher's product (= students) are not the same people who decide which publisher's product those people must take (= professors, instructors, administrators, etc.). And the publishers know how to exploit this moral hazard to their maximum advantage. So while I'm not advocating piracy, I don't think you need to worry that publishers are going hungry due to the practice . . .
          – ruakh
          7 hours ago












          @ruakh if you lump the entire publishing industry as one, sure. In real life it's not so certain, e.g. many university presses are routinely loss-making, and much of their revenue derives from a select few popular titles. You can imagine the damage if one of these titles ends up being widely pirated - the university might even decide that it's just not worth subsidizing a university press and move the money elsewhere.
          – Allure
          1 hour ago




          @ruakh if you lump the entire publishing industry as one, sure. In real life it's not so certain, e.g. many university presses are routinely loss-making, and much of their revenue derives from a select few popular titles. You can imagine the damage if one of these titles ends up being widely pirated - the university might even decide that it's just not worth subsidizing a university press and move the money elsewhere.
          – Allure
          1 hour ago










          up vote
          62
          down vote













          I find the moralistic tone of some of the other answers a bit distasteful, and also unhelpful. It’s pretty clear to me that you didn’t come here to ask for a general lecture about the pros and cons of piracy of textbooks and other digital content, and that is the sort of knowledge that already exists in a zillion different places and isn’t worth repeating. You had specific questions that aren’t addressed anywhere else, so I’ll try to answer them.




          With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




          I don’t find anything inappropriate about the act of sending $10 to a book author, no matter the reason. However, I should emphasize that that doesn’t mean that I think everything you’ve described yourself doing is “appropriate”. And to the extent that some of the other things you are doing are inappropriate, they will still be inappropriate even if you send $10 to book authors.




          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          Well, I am a professor who authored a book.* I would be a little amused, but mostly indifferent. I wouldn’t think more of you for doing it, but I wouldn’t think less of you (compared to my opinion of someone who pirated my book but didn’t send me $10, that is) either. I would likely think that you had decent intentions, but were expressing them in a way that was somewhat misguided.




          Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?




          The sending of $10 to authors by itself is not a terrible idea and on the face of it is mostly just harmless and inconsequential (as opposed to the act of piracy itself, which is a lot more consequential but is not what you asked about, so I won’t discuss it). I’d still advise against it, but not for any of the reasons other people mentioned. Mostly I think that if you went ahead with it it would be a way for you to delude yourself into thinking that this act cleanses your conscience and absolves you of ethical responsibility for the act of illegally downloading the book. It is a kind of a cop-out: you want to download books illegally but also want to think that you’re an ethical person, so you’ve come up with this plan to allow yourself to think that you’ve achieved both goals but for a fraction of the “normal” price. Well, I’m afraid you don’t get off so easily. Ethics doesn’t work that way.



          To summarize, I can’t tell you what you should do, but whatever you do, my advice is, own your actions. If you choose to download books illegally, do so after informing yourself about precisely what that means and what the consequences (ethical and otherwise) are — for yourself, for book authors, for publishers, for other readers and people who would have become readers of books that might never get published, etc — and make sure you can defend your decision and be at peace with it. But don’t go for half-baked solutions like sending some pittance to the book author to help yourself feel better and pretend you don’t need to think about the issue anymore. The truth is, you do need to think more about the issue. It is a complicated issue and the level of thinking about it where I think you’re currently at is only beginning to scratch the surface of its true complexity.



          Thanks for the interesting question!





          *Actually my book cannot be pirated since I give the digital copy away for free on my website (for a variety of reasons, including the knowledge that if I don’t then a pirated copy would likely be available anyway), with my publisher’s permission of course. What I wrote above about how I would feel refers to my best attempt at imagining a hypothetical scenario in which I wrote a book that I was not giving away digitally for free. But I think it’s a fairly accurate guess anyway.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 28




            The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
            – Bent
            yesterday






          • 9




            What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
            – Captain Emacs
            yesterday






          • 10




            @Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
            – Dan Romik
            yesterday






          • 3




            "think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
            – Bent
            yesterday






          • 4




            cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
            – Bent
            yesterday

















          up vote
          62
          down vote













          I find the moralistic tone of some of the other answers a bit distasteful, and also unhelpful. It’s pretty clear to me that you didn’t come here to ask for a general lecture about the pros and cons of piracy of textbooks and other digital content, and that is the sort of knowledge that already exists in a zillion different places and isn’t worth repeating. You had specific questions that aren’t addressed anywhere else, so I’ll try to answer them.




          With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




          I don’t find anything inappropriate about the act of sending $10 to a book author, no matter the reason. However, I should emphasize that that doesn’t mean that I think everything you’ve described yourself doing is “appropriate”. And to the extent that some of the other things you are doing are inappropriate, they will still be inappropriate even if you send $10 to book authors.




          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          Well, I am a professor who authored a book.* I would be a little amused, but mostly indifferent. I wouldn’t think more of you for doing it, but I wouldn’t think less of you (compared to my opinion of someone who pirated my book but didn’t send me $10, that is) either. I would likely think that you had decent intentions, but were expressing them in a way that was somewhat misguided.




          Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?




          The sending of $10 to authors by itself is not a terrible idea and on the face of it is mostly just harmless and inconsequential (as opposed to the act of piracy itself, which is a lot more consequential but is not what you asked about, so I won’t discuss it). I’d still advise against it, but not for any of the reasons other people mentioned. Mostly I think that if you went ahead with it it would be a way for you to delude yourself into thinking that this act cleanses your conscience and absolves you of ethical responsibility for the act of illegally downloading the book. It is a kind of a cop-out: you want to download books illegally but also want to think that you’re an ethical person, so you’ve come up with this plan to allow yourself to think that you’ve achieved both goals but for a fraction of the “normal” price. Well, I’m afraid you don’t get off so easily. Ethics doesn’t work that way.



          To summarize, I can’t tell you what you should do, but whatever you do, my advice is, own your actions. If you choose to download books illegally, do so after informing yourself about precisely what that means and what the consequences (ethical and otherwise) are — for yourself, for book authors, for publishers, for other readers and people who would have become readers of books that might never get published, etc — and make sure you can defend your decision and be at peace with it. But don’t go for half-baked solutions like sending some pittance to the book author to help yourself feel better and pretend you don’t need to think about the issue anymore. The truth is, you do need to think more about the issue. It is a complicated issue and the level of thinking about it where I think you’re currently at is only beginning to scratch the surface of its true complexity.



          Thanks for the interesting question!





          *Actually my book cannot be pirated since I give the digital copy away for free on my website (for a variety of reasons, including the knowledge that if I don’t then a pirated copy would likely be available anyway), with my publisher’s permission of course. What I wrote above about how I would feel refers to my best attempt at imagining a hypothetical scenario in which I wrote a book that I was not giving away digitally for free. But I think it’s a fairly accurate guess anyway.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 28




            The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
            – Bent
            yesterday






          • 9




            What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
            – Captain Emacs
            yesterday






          • 10




            @Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
            – Dan Romik
            yesterday






          • 3




            "think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
            – Bent
            yesterday






          • 4




            cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
            – Bent
            yesterday















          up vote
          62
          down vote










          up vote
          62
          down vote









          I find the moralistic tone of some of the other answers a bit distasteful, and also unhelpful. It’s pretty clear to me that you didn’t come here to ask for a general lecture about the pros and cons of piracy of textbooks and other digital content, and that is the sort of knowledge that already exists in a zillion different places and isn’t worth repeating. You had specific questions that aren’t addressed anywhere else, so I’ll try to answer them.




          With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




          I don’t find anything inappropriate about the act of sending $10 to a book author, no matter the reason. However, I should emphasize that that doesn’t mean that I think everything you’ve described yourself doing is “appropriate”. And to the extent that some of the other things you are doing are inappropriate, they will still be inappropriate even if you send $10 to book authors.




          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          Well, I am a professor who authored a book.* I would be a little amused, but mostly indifferent. I wouldn’t think more of you for doing it, but I wouldn’t think less of you (compared to my opinion of someone who pirated my book but didn’t send me $10, that is) either. I would likely think that you had decent intentions, but were expressing them in a way that was somewhat misguided.




          Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?




          The sending of $10 to authors by itself is not a terrible idea and on the face of it is mostly just harmless and inconsequential (as opposed to the act of piracy itself, which is a lot more consequential but is not what you asked about, so I won’t discuss it). I’d still advise against it, but not for any of the reasons other people mentioned. Mostly I think that if you went ahead with it it would be a way for you to delude yourself into thinking that this act cleanses your conscience and absolves you of ethical responsibility for the act of illegally downloading the book. It is a kind of a cop-out: you want to download books illegally but also want to think that you’re an ethical person, so you’ve come up with this plan to allow yourself to think that you’ve achieved both goals but for a fraction of the “normal” price. Well, I’m afraid you don’t get off so easily. Ethics doesn’t work that way.



          To summarize, I can’t tell you what you should do, but whatever you do, my advice is, own your actions. If you choose to download books illegally, do so after informing yourself about precisely what that means and what the consequences (ethical and otherwise) are — for yourself, for book authors, for publishers, for other readers and people who would have become readers of books that might never get published, etc — and make sure you can defend your decision and be at peace with it. But don’t go for half-baked solutions like sending some pittance to the book author to help yourself feel better and pretend you don’t need to think about the issue anymore. The truth is, you do need to think more about the issue. It is a complicated issue and the level of thinking about it where I think you’re currently at is only beginning to scratch the surface of its true complexity.



          Thanks for the interesting question!





          *Actually my book cannot be pirated since I give the digital copy away for free on my website (for a variety of reasons, including the knowledge that if I don’t then a pirated copy would likely be available anyway), with my publisher’s permission of course. What I wrote above about how I would feel refers to my best attempt at imagining a hypothetical scenario in which I wrote a book that I was not giving away digitally for free. But I think it’s a fairly accurate guess anyway.






          share|improve this answer














          I find the moralistic tone of some of the other answers a bit distasteful, and also unhelpful. It’s pretty clear to me that you didn’t come here to ask for a general lecture about the pros and cons of piracy of textbooks and other digital content, and that is the sort of knowledge that already exists in a zillion different places and isn’t worth repeating. You had specific questions that aren’t addressed anywhere else, so I’ll try to answer them.




          With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




          I don’t find anything inappropriate about the act of sending $10 to a book author, no matter the reason. However, I should emphasize that that doesn’t mean that I think everything you’ve described yourself doing is “appropriate”. And to the extent that some of the other things you are doing are inappropriate, they will still be inappropriate even if you send $10 to book authors.




          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          Well, I am a professor who authored a book.* I would be a little amused, but mostly indifferent. I wouldn’t think more of you for doing it, but I wouldn’t think less of you (compared to my opinion of someone who pirated my book but didn’t send me $10, that is) either. I would likely think that you had decent intentions, but were expressing them in a way that was somewhat misguided.




          Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?




          The sending of $10 to authors by itself is not a terrible idea and on the face of it is mostly just harmless and inconsequential (as opposed to the act of piracy itself, which is a lot more consequential but is not what you asked about, so I won’t discuss it). I’d still advise against it, but not for any of the reasons other people mentioned. Mostly I think that if you went ahead with it it would be a way for you to delude yourself into thinking that this act cleanses your conscience and absolves you of ethical responsibility for the act of illegally downloading the book. It is a kind of a cop-out: you want to download books illegally but also want to think that you’re an ethical person, so you’ve come up with this plan to allow yourself to think that you’ve achieved both goals but for a fraction of the “normal” price. Well, I’m afraid you don’t get off so easily. Ethics doesn’t work that way.



          To summarize, I can’t tell you what you should do, but whatever you do, my advice is, own your actions. If you choose to download books illegally, do so after informing yourself about precisely what that means and what the consequences (ethical and otherwise) are — for yourself, for book authors, for publishers, for other readers and people who would have become readers of books that might never get published, etc — and make sure you can defend your decision and be at peace with it. But don’t go for half-baked solutions like sending some pittance to the book author to help yourself feel better and pretend you don’t need to think about the issue anymore. The truth is, you do need to think more about the issue. It is a complicated issue and the level of thinking about it where I think you’re currently at is only beginning to scratch the surface of its true complexity.



          Thanks for the interesting question!





          *Actually my book cannot be pirated since I give the digital copy away for free on my website (for a variety of reasons, including the knowledge that if I don’t then a pirated copy would likely be available anyway), with my publisher’s permission of course. What I wrote above about how I would feel refers to my best attempt at imagining a hypothetical scenario in which I wrote a book that I was not giving away digitally for free. But I think it’s a fairly accurate guess anyway.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday

























          answered yesterday









          Dan Romik

          80.1k20175269




          80.1k20175269








          • 28




            The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
            – Bent
            yesterday






          • 9




            What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
            – Captain Emacs
            yesterday






          • 10




            @Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
            – Dan Romik
            yesterday






          • 3




            "think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
            – Bent
            yesterday






          • 4




            cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
            – Bent
            yesterday
















          • 28




            The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
            – Bent
            yesterday






          • 9




            What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
            – Captain Emacs
            yesterday






          • 10




            @Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
            – Dan Romik
            yesterday






          • 3




            "think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
            – Bent
            yesterday






          • 4




            cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
            – Bent
            yesterday










          28




          28




          The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
          – Bent
          yesterday




          The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
          – Bent
          yesterday




          9




          9




          What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
          – Captain Emacs
          yesterday




          What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
          – Captain Emacs
          yesterday




          10




          10




          @Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
          – Dan Romik
          yesterday




          @Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
          – Dan Romik
          yesterday




          3




          3




          "think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
          – Bent
          yesterday




          "think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
          – Bent
          yesterday




          4




          4




          cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
          – Bent
          yesterday






          cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
          – Bent
          yesterday












          up vote
          24
          down vote













          After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:




          • The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.


          • They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.


          • You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.


          • The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.



          In short then, I wouldn't do this.



          However, also I disagree with Buffy's answer. Ebooks are a non-rival good. Hence the ethics of "stealing" them is pretty complicated, and in my view there are situations where "stealing" a non-rival good is permissible or even obligatory. It's inaccurate to call this "simple theft" in my opinion. In any event, whether you send them money or not, I wouldn't feel too guilty about this.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 8




            This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
            – cag51
            2 days ago






          • 4




            @cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
            – goblin
            yesterday








          • 19




            @goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
            – Patrick Trentin
            yesterday






          • 2




            @PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
            – Nobody
            yesterday






          • 2




            @StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
            – cag51
            yesterday















          up vote
          24
          down vote













          After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:




          • The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.


          • They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.


          • You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.


          • The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.



          In short then, I wouldn't do this.



          However, also I disagree with Buffy's answer. Ebooks are a non-rival good. Hence the ethics of "stealing" them is pretty complicated, and in my view there are situations where "stealing" a non-rival good is permissible or even obligatory. It's inaccurate to call this "simple theft" in my opinion. In any event, whether you send them money or not, I wouldn't feel too guilty about this.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 8




            This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
            – cag51
            2 days ago






          • 4




            @cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
            – goblin
            yesterday








          • 19




            @goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
            – Patrick Trentin
            yesterday






          • 2




            @PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
            – Nobody
            yesterday






          • 2




            @StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
            – cag51
            yesterday













          up vote
          24
          down vote










          up vote
          24
          down vote









          After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:




          • The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.


          • They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.


          • You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.


          • The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.



          In short then, I wouldn't do this.



          However, also I disagree with Buffy's answer. Ebooks are a non-rival good. Hence the ethics of "stealing" them is pretty complicated, and in my view there are situations where "stealing" a non-rival good is permissible or even obligatory. It's inaccurate to call this "simple theft" in my opinion. In any event, whether you send them money or not, I wouldn't feel too guilty about this.






          share|improve this answer














          After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:




          • The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.


          • They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.


          • You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.


          • The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.



          In short then, I wouldn't do this.



          However, also I disagree with Buffy's answer. Ebooks are a non-rival good. Hence the ethics of "stealing" them is pretty complicated, and in my view there are situations where "stealing" a non-rival good is permissible or even obligatory. It's inaccurate to call this "simple theft" in my opinion. In any event, whether you send them money or not, I wouldn't feel too guilty about this.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 2 days ago

























          answered 2 days ago









          goblin

          61448




          61448








          • 8




            This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
            – cag51
            2 days ago






          • 4




            @cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
            – goblin
            yesterday








          • 19




            @goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
            – Patrick Trentin
            yesterday






          • 2




            @PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
            – Nobody
            yesterday






          • 2




            @StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
            – cag51
            yesterday














          • 8




            This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
            – cag51
            2 days ago






          • 4




            @cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
            – goblin
            yesterday








          • 19




            @goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
            – Patrick Trentin
            yesterday






          • 2




            @PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
            – Nobody
            yesterday






          • 2




            @StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
            – cag51
            yesterday








          8




          8




          This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
          – cag51
          2 days ago




          This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
          – cag51
          2 days ago




          4




          4




          @cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
          – goblin
          yesterday






          @cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
          – goblin
          yesterday






          19




          19




          @goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
          – Patrick Trentin
          yesterday




          @goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
          – Patrick Trentin
          yesterday




          2




          2




          @PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
          – Nobody
          yesterday




          @PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
          – Nobody
          yesterday




          2




          2




          @StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
          – cag51
          yesterday




          @StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
          – cag51
          yesterday










          up vote
          22
          down vote













          Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.





          This answer has generated a lot of controversy. Let me explain a bit of the background and thinking behind it. It will take me more than one edit to be complete, so please be patient. Most of this annex is derived from comments I've made elsewhere here.



          First, I don't make any legal argument at all. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.



          The OP and others here seems to believe that the publishing industry is itself immoral and should be combatted. I agree in part with that, but only in part. But that doesn't change the ethics of this action (downloading without payment). But most people who think that publishers just rip them off, haven't thought about the problem very deeply. The main costs in publishing (paper or electronic) are acquisitions, reviewing, editing, layout/graphics, manufacture/hosting, and marketing. This in addition to the time and effort of the author(s) who produce the work. All of these are expensive undertakings and require skilled professionals.



          Some of the work is done by volunteers (often reviewing). But copy editors, who improve the language and layout/book-designers etc. need to be paid. Many of the people in acquisitions, editing, and marketing need to be on the road visiting (and paying for) every conference they can find. And the marketers give away a lot of books, also.



          Some here seem to think that the costs of books etc are just too high, but they have always been high. I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.



          Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books; several for every successful one. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. Which means that much of the cost of trying to develop most books is never recovered. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.



          Another reason for the high cost of all but elementary books is that the total market is both small and divided up by the presence of several book options. Choice again. If we all used Johnson & Kiokemeister's Calculus with Analytic Geometry from 1960 (a good book) then the cost would be very small. But there are new books to choose from, increasing the cost of all since most are unsuccessful, but still eat up development resources.



          Some have stated that publishers have a monopoly and that they exploit it. But publishers don't have a legal monopoly. Anyone can attack their business model. Anyone can offer competition. If their profit margins are outrageous then someone has a lot of incentive to do it. But no one has yet been able to put all the pieces together (from acquisition to distribution) to make it any cheaper for buyers. Some models replace paid employees with volunteers and that works up to a point, but hasn't been shown to scale. Apple's profit margin is 22%. McGraw is 25% (one of the highest). Creating things is hard work from a lot of people.



          Don't get the idea here that I'm against a system in which IP is free to use. But there needs to be some incentive to produce it or it won't get produced at all. I've written some ebooks, actually, and have produced software that has been downloaded (free) more than 15,000 times. But that was my choice to do, not someone else's decision who tried to override my wishes.



          My preferred solution is to work toward a system in which authors are compensated separately from book sales, say via grants funded via tax revenues. This makes the creation of IP truly a social good and a shared responsibility. Books could then be distributed for free or sold for manufacturing cost, or whatever.



          My biggest complaint about the publishing industry, actually, is simply that they don't spend enough effort on marketing their titles after two years. Most authors get almost all of their revenue in those first two years because of this. Always on to the new thing.



          But still, my argument here is an ethical one, not a legal or economic argument. It is wrong to substitute your decision for that of the creator of something of value - especially if it is of value to you.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 12




            @Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
            – darij grinberg
            2 days ago








          • 22




            I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
            – Dan Romik
            2 days ago








          • 12




            Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
            – Ben Crowell
            yesterday










          • I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
            – Wrzlprmft
            yesterday








          • 2




            Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
            – RedSonja
            23 hours ago















          up vote
          22
          down vote













          Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.





          This answer has generated a lot of controversy. Let me explain a bit of the background and thinking behind it. It will take me more than one edit to be complete, so please be patient. Most of this annex is derived from comments I've made elsewhere here.



          First, I don't make any legal argument at all. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.



          The OP and others here seems to believe that the publishing industry is itself immoral and should be combatted. I agree in part with that, but only in part. But that doesn't change the ethics of this action (downloading without payment). But most people who think that publishers just rip them off, haven't thought about the problem very deeply. The main costs in publishing (paper or electronic) are acquisitions, reviewing, editing, layout/graphics, manufacture/hosting, and marketing. This in addition to the time and effort of the author(s) who produce the work. All of these are expensive undertakings and require skilled professionals.



          Some of the work is done by volunteers (often reviewing). But copy editors, who improve the language and layout/book-designers etc. need to be paid. Many of the people in acquisitions, editing, and marketing need to be on the road visiting (and paying for) every conference they can find. And the marketers give away a lot of books, also.



          Some here seem to think that the costs of books etc are just too high, but they have always been high. I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.



          Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books; several for every successful one. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. Which means that much of the cost of trying to develop most books is never recovered. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.



          Another reason for the high cost of all but elementary books is that the total market is both small and divided up by the presence of several book options. Choice again. If we all used Johnson & Kiokemeister's Calculus with Analytic Geometry from 1960 (a good book) then the cost would be very small. But there are new books to choose from, increasing the cost of all since most are unsuccessful, but still eat up development resources.



          Some have stated that publishers have a monopoly and that they exploit it. But publishers don't have a legal monopoly. Anyone can attack their business model. Anyone can offer competition. If their profit margins are outrageous then someone has a lot of incentive to do it. But no one has yet been able to put all the pieces together (from acquisition to distribution) to make it any cheaper for buyers. Some models replace paid employees with volunteers and that works up to a point, but hasn't been shown to scale. Apple's profit margin is 22%. McGraw is 25% (one of the highest). Creating things is hard work from a lot of people.



          Don't get the idea here that I'm against a system in which IP is free to use. But there needs to be some incentive to produce it or it won't get produced at all. I've written some ebooks, actually, and have produced software that has been downloaded (free) more than 15,000 times. But that was my choice to do, not someone else's decision who tried to override my wishes.



          My preferred solution is to work toward a system in which authors are compensated separately from book sales, say via grants funded via tax revenues. This makes the creation of IP truly a social good and a shared responsibility. Books could then be distributed for free or sold for manufacturing cost, or whatever.



          My biggest complaint about the publishing industry, actually, is simply that they don't spend enough effort on marketing their titles after two years. Most authors get almost all of their revenue in those first two years because of this. Always on to the new thing.



          But still, my argument here is an ethical one, not a legal or economic argument. It is wrong to substitute your decision for that of the creator of something of value - especially if it is of value to you.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 12




            @Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
            – darij grinberg
            2 days ago








          • 22




            I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
            – Dan Romik
            2 days ago








          • 12




            Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
            – Ben Crowell
            yesterday










          • I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
            – Wrzlprmft
            yesterday








          • 2




            Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
            – RedSonja
            23 hours ago













          up vote
          22
          down vote










          up vote
          22
          down vote









          Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.





          This answer has generated a lot of controversy. Let me explain a bit of the background and thinking behind it. It will take me more than one edit to be complete, so please be patient. Most of this annex is derived from comments I've made elsewhere here.



          First, I don't make any legal argument at all. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.



          The OP and others here seems to believe that the publishing industry is itself immoral and should be combatted. I agree in part with that, but only in part. But that doesn't change the ethics of this action (downloading without payment). But most people who think that publishers just rip them off, haven't thought about the problem very deeply. The main costs in publishing (paper or electronic) are acquisitions, reviewing, editing, layout/graphics, manufacture/hosting, and marketing. This in addition to the time and effort of the author(s) who produce the work. All of these are expensive undertakings and require skilled professionals.



          Some of the work is done by volunteers (often reviewing). But copy editors, who improve the language and layout/book-designers etc. need to be paid. Many of the people in acquisitions, editing, and marketing need to be on the road visiting (and paying for) every conference they can find. And the marketers give away a lot of books, also.



          Some here seem to think that the costs of books etc are just too high, but they have always been high. I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.



          Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books; several for every successful one. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. Which means that much of the cost of trying to develop most books is never recovered. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.



          Another reason for the high cost of all but elementary books is that the total market is both small and divided up by the presence of several book options. Choice again. If we all used Johnson & Kiokemeister's Calculus with Analytic Geometry from 1960 (a good book) then the cost would be very small. But there are new books to choose from, increasing the cost of all since most are unsuccessful, but still eat up development resources.



          Some have stated that publishers have a monopoly and that they exploit it. But publishers don't have a legal monopoly. Anyone can attack their business model. Anyone can offer competition. If their profit margins are outrageous then someone has a lot of incentive to do it. But no one has yet been able to put all the pieces together (from acquisition to distribution) to make it any cheaper for buyers. Some models replace paid employees with volunteers and that works up to a point, but hasn't been shown to scale. Apple's profit margin is 22%. McGraw is 25% (one of the highest). Creating things is hard work from a lot of people.



          Don't get the idea here that I'm against a system in which IP is free to use. But there needs to be some incentive to produce it or it won't get produced at all. I've written some ebooks, actually, and have produced software that has been downloaded (free) more than 15,000 times. But that was my choice to do, not someone else's decision who tried to override my wishes.



          My preferred solution is to work toward a system in which authors are compensated separately from book sales, say via grants funded via tax revenues. This makes the creation of IP truly a social good and a shared responsibility. Books could then be distributed for free or sold for manufacturing cost, or whatever.



          My biggest complaint about the publishing industry, actually, is simply that they don't spend enough effort on marketing their titles after two years. Most authors get almost all of their revenue in those first two years because of this. Always on to the new thing.



          But still, my argument here is an ethical one, not a legal or economic argument. It is wrong to substitute your decision for that of the creator of something of value - especially if it is of value to you.






          share|improve this answer














          Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.





          This answer has generated a lot of controversy. Let me explain a bit of the background and thinking behind it. It will take me more than one edit to be complete, so please be patient. Most of this annex is derived from comments I've made elsewhere here.



          First, I don't make any legal argument at all. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.



          The OP and others here seems to believe that the publishing industry is itself immoral and should be combatted. I agree in part with that, but only in part. But that doesn't change the ethics of this action (downloading without payment). But most people who think that publishers just rip them off, haven't thought about the problem very deeply. The main costs in publishing (paper or electronic) are acquisitions, reviewing, editing, layout/graphics, manufacture/hosting, and marketing. This in addition to the time and effort of the author(s) who produce the work. All of these are expensive undertakings and require skilled professionals.



          Some of the work is done by volunteers (often reviewing). But copy editors, who improve the language and layout/book-designers etc. need to be paid. Many of the people in acquisitions, editing, and marketing need to be on the road visiting (and paying for) every conference they can find. And the marketers give away a lot of books, also.



          Some here seem to think that the costs of books etc are just too high, but they have always been high. I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.



          Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books; several for every successful one. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. Which means that much of the cost of trying to develop most books is never recovered. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.



          Another reason for the high cost of all but elementary books is that the total market is both small and divided up by the presence of several book options. Choice again. If we all used Johnson & Kiokemeister's Calculus with Analytic Geometry from 1960 (a good book) then the cost would be very small. But there are new books to choose from, increasing the cost of all since most are unsuccessful, but still eat up development resources.



          Some have stated that publishers have a monopoly and that they exploit it. But publishers don't have a legal monopoly. Anyone can attack their business model. Anyone can offer competition. If their profit margins are outrageous then someone has a lot of incentive to do it. But no one has yet been able to put all the pieces together (from acquisition to distribution) to make it any cheaper for buyers. Some models replace paid employees with volunteers and that works up to a point, but hasn't been shown to scale. Apple's profit margin is 22%. McGraw is 25% (one of the highest). Creating things is hard work from a lot of people.



          Don't get the idea here that I'm against a system in which IP is free to use. But there needs to be some incentive to produce it or it won't get produced at all. I've written some ebooks, actually, and have produced software that has been downloaded (free) more than 15,000 times. But that was my choice to do, not someone else's decision who tried to override my wishes.



          My preferred solution is to work toward a system in which authors are compensated separately from book sales, say via grants funded via tax revenues. This makes the creation of IP truly a social good and a shared responsibility. Books could then be distributed for free or sold for manufacturing cost, or whatever.



          My biggest complaint about the publishing industry, actually, is simply that they don't spend enough effort on marketing their titles after two years. Most authors get almost all of their revenue in those first two years because of this. Always on to the new thing.



          But still, my argument here is an ethical one, not a legal or economic argument. It is wrong to substitute your decision for that of the creator of something of value - especially if it is of value to you.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 11 hours ago

























          answered 2 days ago









          Buffy

          29.6k694158




          29.6k694158








          • 12




            @Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
            – darij grinberg
            2 days ago








          • 22




            I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
            – Dan Romik
            2 days ago








          • 12




            Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
            – Ben Crowell
            yesterday










          • I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
            – Wrzlprmft
            yesterday








          • 2




            Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
            – RedSonja
            23 hours ago














          • 12




            @Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
            – darij grinberg
            2 days ago








          • 22




            I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
            – Dan Romik
            2 days ago








          • 12




            Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
            – Ben Crowell
            yesterday










          • I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
            – Wrzlprmft
            yesterday








          • 2




            Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
            – RedSonja
            23 hours ago








          12




          12




          @Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
          – darij grinberg
          2 days ago






          @Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
          – darij grinberg
          2 days ago






          22




          22




          I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
          – Dan Romik
          2 days ago






          I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
          – Dan Romik
          2 days ago






          12




          12




          Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
          – Ben Crowell
          yesterday




          Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
          – Ben Crowell
          yesterday












          I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
          – Wrzlprmft
          yesterday






          I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
          – Wrzlprmft
          yesterday






          2




          2




          Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
          – RedSonja
          23 hours ago




          Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
          – RedSonja
          23 hours ago










          up vote
          20
          down vote














          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          I'd feel extremely annoyed. You're not only doing something illegal, you're cheating someone of their work. This wouldn't be because of money - it's very unlikely I wrote the book to make money. It'd be about justice and fairness, concepts which are too core to my values to compromise for $10. Plus the fact that you pirated my book means someone with even less scruples than you could also have pirated it.



          My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.






          share|improve this answer

















          • 1




            This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
            – lucidbrot
            yesterday






          • 4




            I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
            – Ivana
            21 hours ago






          • 4




            @Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
            – JMac
            16 hours ago






          • 2




            OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
            – einpoklum
            15 hours ago










          • @einpoklum some people did work on that book that they could reasonably expect to be compensated for. Pirating the book means they are not being compensated for it. So yes, I consider it cheating. As for "you still have all your work" - see academia.stackexchange.com/questions/19256/…. The idea that "I still have all my grades" is not a good reason to not report on someone else cheating.
            – Allure
            9 hours ago















          up vote
          20
          down vote














          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          I'd feel extremely annoyed. You're not only doing something illegal, you're cheating someone of their work. This wouldn't be because of money - it's very unlikely I wrote the book to make money. It'd be about justice and fairness, concepts which are too core to my values to compromise for $10. Plus the fact that you pirated my book means someone with even less scruples than you could also have pirated it.



          My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.






          share|improve this answer

















          • 1




            This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
            – lucidbrot
            yesterday






          • 4




            I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
            – Ivana
            21 hours ago






          • 4




            @Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
            – JMac
            16 hours ago






          • 2




            OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
            – einpoklum
            15 hours ago










          • @einpoklum some people did work on that book that they could reasonably expect to be compensated for. Pirating the book means they are not being compensated for it. So yes, I consider it cheating. As for "you still have all your work" - see academia.stackexchange.com/questions/19256/…. The idea that "I still have all my grades" is not a good reason to not report on someone else cheating.
            – Allure
            9 hours ago













          up vote
          20
          down vote










          up vote
          20
          down vote










          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          I'd feel extremely annoyed. You're not only doing something illegal, you're cheating someone of their work. This wouldn't be because of money - it's very unlikely I wrote the book to make money. It'd be about justice and fairness, concepts which are too core to my values to compromise for $10. Plus the fact that you pirated my book means someone with even less scruples than you could also have pirated it.



          My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.






          share|improve this answer













          If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




          I'd feel extremely annoyed. You're not only doing something illegal, you're cheating someone of their work. This wouldn't be because of money - it's very unlikely I wrote the book to make money. It'd be about justice and fairness, concepts which are too core to my values to compromise for $10. Plus the fact that you pirated my book means someone with even less scruples than you could also have pirated it.



          My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered yesterday









          Allure

          23.4k1371121




          23.4k1371121








          • 1




            This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
            – lucidbrot
            yesterday






          • 4




            I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
            – Ivana
            21 hours ago






          • 4




            @Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
            – JMac
            16 hours ago






          • 2




            OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
            – einpoklum
            15 hours ago










          • @einpoklum some people did work on that book that they could reasonably expect to be compensated for. Pirating the book means they are not being compensated for it. So yes, I consider it cheating. As for "you still have all your work" - see academia.stackexchange.com/questions/19256/…. The idea that "I still have all my grades" is not a good reason to not report on someone else cheating.
            – Allure
            9 hours ago














          • 1




            This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
            – lucidbrot
            yesterday






          • 4




            I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
            – Ivana
            21 hours ago






          • 4




            @Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
            – JMac
            16 hours ago






          • 2




            OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
            – einpoklum
            15 hours ago










          • @einpoklum some people did work on that book that they could reasonably expect to be compensated for. Pirating the book means they are not being compensated for it. So yes, I consider it cheating. As for "you still have all your work" - see academia.stackexchange.com/questions/19256/…. The idea that "I still have all my grades" is not a good reason to not report on someone else cheating.
            – Allure
            9 hours ago








          1




          1




          This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
          – lucidbrot
          yesterday




          This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
          – lucidbrot
          yesterday




          4




          4




          I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
          – Ivana
          21 hours ago




          I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
          – Ivana
          21 hours ago




          4




          4




          @Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
          – JMac
          16 hours ago




          @Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
          – JMac
          16 hours ago




          2




          2




          OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
          – einpoklum
          15 hours ago




          OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
          – einpoklum
          15 hours ago












          @einpoklum some people did work on that book that they could reasonably expect to be compensated for. Pirating the book means they are not being compensated for it. So yes, I consider it cheating. As for "you still have all your work" - see academia.stackexchange.com/questions/19256/…. The idea that "I still have all my grades" is not a good reason to not report on someone else cheating.
          – Allure
          9 hours ago




          @einpoklum some people did work on that book that they could reasonably expect to be compensated for. Pirating the book means they are not being compensated for it. So yes, I consider it cheating. As for "you still have all your work" - see academia.stackexchange.com/questions/19256/…. The idea that "I still have all my grades" is not a good reason to not report on someone else cheating.
          – Allure
          9 hours ago










          up vote
          9
          down vote













          Undertake a sincere and useful civic action as penance for your (somewhat self-righteously defended) abuse. Collect all the students at your university. Sign a petition to your state representative (or equivalent for outside the US). State your case with proof rather than subjective statements such as "... it is well-known that". Demonstrate why you believe that publishers hold the equivalent of a virtual monopoly on textbooks, for example because they keep the costs to enter the textbook publishing business at a prohibitive level. Demonstrate where you find their business model has increased the expense of textbooks unfairly, for example because relatively higher portions of the costs for a textbook are going to pay salaries at upper administrative levels. State a case for how this is causing the cost of education to be well beyond the means of today's college students even with loans. Propose and demand appropriate legislative action to fix the problem.



          Start a movement that will do something beyond raising a (rather disrespectful) attitude about the problem and then asking for moral support in a discussion forum for what amounts to a penny that will be given in disdain. In other words, as much as I emphasize with the pain any student faces with covering the costs of textbooks, my proposal absolutely will not make right the action of effectively stealing a textbook. If nothing else, it is only a far better penance than sending money to the author.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 2




            I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
            – Buffy
            yesterday






          • 2




            While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            yesterday








          • 3




            See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
            – Buffy
            yesterday






          • 1




            Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            yesterday






          • 1




            Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
            – Buffy
            yesterday















          up vote
          9
          down vote













          Undertake a sincere and useful civic action as penance for your (somewhat self-righteously defended) abuse. Collect all the students at your university. Sign a petition to your state representative (or equivalent for outside the US). State your case with proof rather than subjective statements such as "... it is well-known that". Demonstrate why you believe that publishers hold the equivalent of a virtual monopoly on textbooks, for example because they keep the costs to enter the textbook publishing business at a prohibitive level. Demonstrate where you find their business model has increased the expense of textbooks unfairly, for example because relatively higher portions of the costs for a textbook are going to pay salaries at upper administrative levels. State a case for how this is causing the cost of education to be well beyond the means of today's college students even with loans. Propose and demand appropriate legislative action to fix the problem.



          Start a movement that will do something beyond raising a (rather disrespectful) attitude about the problem and then asking for moral support in a discussion forum for what amounts to a penny that will be given in disdain. In other words, as much as I emphasize with the pain any student faces with covering the costs of textbooks, my proposal absolutely will not make right the action of effectively stealing a textbook. If nothing else, it is only a far better penance than sending money to the author.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 2




            I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
            – Buffy
            yesterday






          • 2




            While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            yesterday








          • 3




            See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
            – Buffy
            yesterday






          • 1




            Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            yesterday






          • 1




            Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
            – Buffy
            yesterday













          up vote
          9
          down vote










          up vote
          9
          down vote









          Undertake a sincere and useful civic action as penance for your (somewhat self-righteously defended) abuse. Collect all the students at your university. Sign a petition to your state representative (or equivalent for outside the US). State your case with proof rather than subjective statements such as "... it is well-known that". Demonstrate why you believe that publishers hold the equivalent of a virtual monopoly on textbooks, for example because they keep the costs to enter the textbook publishing business at a prohibitive level. Demonstrate where you find their business model has increased the expense of textbooks unfairly, for example because relatively higher portions of the costs for a textbook are going to pay salaries at upper administrative levels. State a case for how this is causing the cost of education to be well beyond the means of today's college students even with loans. Propose and demand appropriate legislative action to fix the problem.



          Start a movement that will do something beyond raising a (rather disrespectful) attitude about the problem and then asking for moral support in a discussion forum for what amounts to a penny that will be given in disdain. In other words, as much as I emphasize with the pain any student faces with covering the costs of textbooks, my proposal absolutely will not make right the action of effectively stealing a textbook. If nothing else, it is only a far better penance than sending money to the author.






          share|improve this answer














          Undertake a sincere and useful civic action as penance for your (somewhat self-righteously defended) abuse. Collect all the students at your university. Sign a petition to your state representative (or equivalent for outside the US). State your case with proof rather than subjective statements such as "... it is well-known that". Demonstrate why you believe that publishers hold the equivalent of a virtual monopoly on textbooks, for example because they keep the costs to enter the textbook publishing business at a prohibitive level. Demonstrate where you find their business model has increased the expense of textbooks unfairly, for example because relatively higher portions of the costs for a textbook are going to pay salaries at upper administrative levels. State a case for how this is causing the cost of education to be well beyond the means of today's college students even with loans. Propose and demand appropriate legislative action to fix the problem.



          Start a movement that will do something beyond raising a (rather disrespectful) attitude about the problem and then asking for moral support in a discussion forum for what amounts to a penny that will be given in disdain. In other words, as much as I emphasize with the pain any student faces with covering the costs of textbooks, my proposal absolutely will not make right the action of effectively stealing a textbook. If nothing else, it is only a far better penance than sending money to the author.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday

























          answered yesterday









          Jeffrey J Weimer

          1,243110




          1,243110








          • 2




            I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
            – Buffy
            yesterday






          • 2




            While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            yesterday








          • 3




            See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
            – Buffy
            yesterday






          • 1




            Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            yesterday






          • 1




            Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
            – Buffy
            yesterday














          • 2




            I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
            – Buffy
            yesterday






          • 2




            While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            yesterday








          • 3




            See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
            – Buffy
            yesterday






          • 1




            Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            yesterday






          • 1




            Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
            – Buffy
            yesterday








          2




          2




          I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
          – Buffy
          yesterday




          I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
          – Buffy
          yesterday




          2




          2




          While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
          – Jeffrey J Weimer
          yesterday






          While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
          – Jeffrey J Weimer
          yesterday






          3




          3




          See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
          – Buffy
          yesterday




          See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
          – Buffy
          yesterday




          1




          1




          Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
          – Jeffrey J Weimer
          yesterday




          Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
          – Jeffrey J Weimer
          yesterday




          1




          1




          Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
          – Buffy
          yesterday




          Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
          – Buffy
          yesterday










          up vote
          7
          down vote













          It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.



          My instinctual guess on receiving an anonymous envelope would be that it's going to be something unpleasant: a scam, or hate mail, or sexual harassment, or crazy ranting, or (in this day and age) maybe anthrax. "Money from a reader who pirated my book" is not going to make the top 10. There's a fair chance that I might destroy it without opening it.



          At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.






          share|improve this answer

























            up vote
            7
            down vote













            It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.



            My instinctual guess on receiving an anonymous envelope would be that it's going to be something unpleasant: a scam, or hate mail, or sexual harassment, or crazy ranting, or (in this day and age) maybe anthrax. "Money from a reader who pirated my book" is not going to make the top 10. There's a fair chance that I might destroy it without opening it.



            At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.






            share|improve this answer























              up vote
              7
              down vote










              up vote
              7
              down vote









              It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.



              My instinctual guess on receiving an anonymous envelope would be that it's going to be something unpleasant: a scam, or hate mail, or sexual harassment, or crazy ranting, or (in this day and age) maybe anthrax. "Money from a reader who pirated my book" is not going to make the top 10. There's a fair chance that I might destroy it without opening it.



              At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.






              share|improve this answer












              It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.



              My instinctual guess on receiving an anonymous envelope would be that it's going to be something unpleasant: a scam, or hate mail, or sexual harassment, or crazy ranting, or (in this day and age) maybe anthrax. "Money from a reader who pirated my book" is not going to make the top 10. There's a fair chance that I might destroy it without opening it.



              At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered yesterday









              Nate Eldredge

              102k32291392




              102k32291392






















                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote













                  You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.



                  The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.



                  I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.






                  share|improve this answer

















                  • 1




                    Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday








                  • 2




                    @Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
                    – gnasher729
                    yesterday






                  • 4




                    Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday






                  • 5




                    @Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
                    – Dan Romik
                    yesterday








                  • 6




                    @DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday















                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote













                  You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.



                  The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.



                  I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.






                  share|improve this answer

















                  • 1




                    Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday








                  • 2




                    @Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
                    – gnasher729
                    yesterday






                  • 4




                    Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday






                  • 5




                    @Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
                    – Dan Romik
                    yesterday








                  • 6




                    @DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday













                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote









                  You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.



                  The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.



                  I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.






                  share|improve this answer












                  You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.



                  The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.



                  I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered yesterday









                  gnasher729

                  1,23058




                  1,23058








                  • 1




                    Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday








                  • 2




                    @Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
                    – gnasher729
                    yesterday






                  • 4




                    Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday






                  • 5




                    @Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
                    – Dan Romik
                    yesterday








                  • 6




                    @DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday














                  • 1




                    Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday








                  • 2




                    @Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
                    – gnasher729
                    yesterday






                  • 4




                    Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday






                  • 5




                    @Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
                    – Dan Romik
                    yesterday








                  • 6




                    @DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
                    – Buffy
                    yesterday








                  1




                  1




                  Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
                  – Buffy
                  yesterday






                  Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
                  – Buffy
                  yesterday






                  2




                  2




                  @Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
                  – gnasher729
                  yesterday




                  @Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
                  – gnasher729
                  yesterday




                  4




                  4




                  Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
                  – Buffy
                  yesterday




                  Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
                  – Buffy
                  yesterday




                  5




                  5




                  @Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
                  – Dan Romik
                  yesterday






                  @Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
                  – Dan Romik
                  yesterday






                  6




                  6




                  @DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
                  – Buffy
                  yesterday




                  @DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
                  – Buffy
                  yesterday










                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote













                  Absolutely don't do it!




                  I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies.




                  Don't be so sure it's illegal. You didn't specify where in the world you live, nor where the books were published, but in some countries it's perfectly legal, and in some other countries it's a gray area, despite opinions to the contrary.




                  While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropriately compensated for their work.




                  You seem to be assuming there is some damage or loss to the author of someone making a copy of his/her book, for which s/he needs to be compensated. That is the subject of philosophical, political and at times legal debate.




                  But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook.




                  No, this is not well known at all; some academics lose money due to publishing books and/or get no money per copy sold. What is, however, generally the case is that Professors are employed full-time and need not worry about their material welfare due to more or less money coming in from book sales.




                  With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




                  So, it would probably not be necessary even from a moral/social/political perspective. But it would dangerous, since you would be waving a flag above your head calling to be investigated for copyright violation. Regardless of what such a turn of events will result in, it would mean hassle, stress, expenses and discomfort for you and your family, roommates, friends etc.




                  If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




                  I would feel sorry for having put a student of my work at risk of legal action, fine or jail time; and I would also feel sorry for having taken 10 dollars from a likely much less well-off person who probably needs the money more than I do.



                  ... instead, do something else:



                  You know, "pay it forward":




                  • If you know of a cause the author supports - consider donating to it.

                  • If you're writing some academic material or software - consider making it freely-downloadable, officially.

                  • If you're just an undergrad - perhaps do some kind of volunteer work, like helping high-school students who are having trouble keep up with some tutoring.






                  share|improve this answer





















                  • "Don't be so sure it's illegal." Pretty confident that worldwide things are inclining towards downloading ebooks without paying being illegal, see e.g. academia.stackexchange.com/questions/86414/…?, which doesn't deal with this exact question but is quite close.
                    – Allure
                    8 hours ago








                  • 1




                    @Allure: Even the top answer to the question you linked to says "There does not seem to be one court case where one was prosecuted for just downloading such material.", and that some legal scholars (and zero court decision) consider it as "probably illegal (as opposed to: "illegal"). And that's in a country of your choice.
                    – einpoklum
                    7 hours ago












                  • That answer is outdated, obviously. It was written in Mach 2017. See my answer, which quoted an April 2017 court case.
                    – Allure
                    7 hours ago










                  • Also the ECJ rules for the entire EU, so it's more than just one country.
                    – Allure
                    7 hours ago










                  • Yeah, so, your answer there has sources which regard offering streaming services/products of unlicensed films for profit, which is what the ECJ ruled on. They're basically relevant to the question of making copies of academic materials for purposes of research or study.
                    – einpoklum
                    7 hours ago

















                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote













                  Absolutely don't do it!




                  I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies.




                  Don't be so sure it's illegal. You didn't specify where in the world you live, nor where the books were published, but in some countries it's perfectly legal, and in some other countries it's a gray area, despite opinions to the contrary.




                  While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropriately compensated for their work.




                  You seem to be assuming there is some damage or loss to the author of someone making a copy of his/her book, for which s/he needs to be compensated. That is the subject of philosophical, political and at times legal debate.




                  But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook.




                  No, this is not well known at all; some academics lose money due to publishing books and/or get no money per copy sold. What is, however, generally the case is that Professors are employed full-time and need not worry about their material welfare due to more or less money coming in from book sales.




                  With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




                  So, it would probably not be necessary even from a moral/social/political perspective. But it would dangerous, since you would be waving a flag above your head calling to be investigated for copyright violation. Regardless of what such a turn of events will result in, it would mean hassle, stress, expenses and discomfort for you and your family, roommates, friends etc.




                  If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




                  I would feel sorry for having put a student of my work at risk of legal action, fine or jail time; and I would also feel sorry for having taken 10 dollars from a likely much less well-off person who probably needs the money more than I do.



                  ... instead, do something else:



                  You know, "pay it forward":




                  • If you know of a cause the author supports - consider donating to it.

                  • If you're writing some academic material or software - consider making it freely-downloadable, officially.

                  • If you're just an undergrad - perhaps do some kind of volunteer work, like helping high-school students who are having trouble keep up with some tutoring.






                  share|improve this answer





















                  • "Don't be so sure it's illegal." Pretty confident that worldwide things are inclining towards downloading ebooks without paying being illegal, see e.g. academia.stackexchange.com/questions/86414/…?, which doesn't deal with this exact question but is quite close.
                    – Allure
                    8 hours ago








                  • 1




                    @Allure: Even the top answer to the question you linked to says "There does not seem to be one court case where one was prosecuted for just downloading such material.", and that some legal scholars (and zero court decision) consider it as "probably illegal (as opposed to: "illegal"). And that's in a country of your choice.
                    – einpoklum
                    7 hours ago












                  • That answer is outdated, obviously. It was written in Mach 2017. See my answer, which quoted an April 2017 court case.
                    – Allure
                    7 hours ago










                  • Also the ECJ rules for the entire EU, so it's more than just one country.
                    – Allure
                    7 hours ago










                  • Yeah, so, your answer there has sources which regard offering streaming services/products of unlicensed films for profit, which is what the ECJ ruled on. They're basically relevant to the question of making copies of academic materials for purposes of research or study.
                    – einpoklum
                    7 hours ago















                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote









                  Absolutely don't do it!




                  I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies.




                  Don't be so sure it's illegal. You didn't specify where in the world you live, nor where the books were published, but in some countries it's perfectly legal, and in some other countries it's a gray area, despite opinions to the contrary.




                  While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropriately compensated for their work.




                  You seem to be assuming there is some damage or loss to the author of someone making a copy of his/her book, for which s/he needs to be compensated. That is the subject of philosophical, political and at times legal debate.




                  But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook.




                  No, this is not well known at all; some academics lose money due to publishing books and/or get no money per copy sold. What is, however, generally the case is that Professors are employed full-time and need not worry about their material welfare due to more or less money coming in from book sales.




                  With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




                  So, it would probably not be necessary even from a moral/social/political perspective. But it would dangerous, since you would be waving a flag above your head calling to be investigated for copyright violation. Regardless of what such a turn of events will result in, it would mean hassle, stress, expenses and discomfort for you and your family, roommates, friends etc.




                  If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




                  I would feel sorry for having put a student of my work at risk of legal action, fine or jail time; and I would also feel sorry for having taken 10 dollars from a likely much less well-off person who probably needs the money more than I do.



                  ... instead, do something else:



                  You know, "pay it forward":




                  • If you know of a cause the author supports - consider donating to it.

                  • If you're writing some academic material or software - consider making it freely-downloadable, officially.

                  • If you're just an undergrad - perhaps do some kind of volunteer work, like helping high-school students who are having trouble keep up with some tutoring.






                  share|improve this answer












                  Absolutely don't do it!




                  I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies.




                  Don't be so sure it's illegal. You didn't specify where in the world you live, nor where the books were published, but in some countries it's perfectly legal, and in some other countries it's a gray area, despite opinions to the contrary.




                  While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropriately compensated for their work.




                  You seem to be assuming there is some damage or loss to the author of someone making a copy of his/her book, for which s/he needs to be compensated. That is the subject of philosophical, political and at times legal debate.




                  But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook.




                  No, this is not well known at all; some academics lose money due to publishing books and/or get no money per copy sold. What is, however, generally the case is that Professors are employed full-time and need not worry about their material welfare due to more or less money coming in from book sales.




                  With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?




                  So, it would probably not be necessary even from a moral/social/political perspective. But it would dangerous, since you would be waving a flag above your head calling to be investigated for copyright violation. Regardless of what such a turn of events will result in, it would mean hassle, stress, expenses and discomfort for you and your family, roommates, friends etc.




                  If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?




                  I would feel sorry for having put a student of my work at risk of legal action, fine or jail time; and I would also feel sorry for having taken 10 dollars from a likely much less well-off person who probably needs the money more than I do.



                  ... instead, do something else:



                  You know, "pay it forward":




                  • If you know of a cause the author supports - consider donating to it.

                  • If you're writing some academic material or software - consider making it freely-downloadable, officially.

                  • If you're just an undergrad - perhaps do some kind of volunteer work, like helping high-school students who are having trouble keep up with some tutoring.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 16 hours ago









                  einpoklum

                  22.4k137130




                  22.4k137130












                  • "Don't be so sure it's illegal." Pretty confident that worldwide things are inclining towards downloading ebooks without paying being illegal, see e.g. academia.stackexchange.com/questions/86414/…?, which doesn't deal with this exact question but is quite close.
                    – Allure
                    8 hours ago








                  • 1




                    @Allure: Even the top answer to the question you linked to says "There does not seem to be one court case where one was prosecuted for just downloading such material.", and that some legal scholars (and zero court decision) consider it as "probably illegal (as opposed to: "illegal"). And that's in a country of your choice.
                    – einpoklum
                    7 hours ago












                  • That answer is outdated, obviously. It was written in Mach 2017. See my answer, which quoted an April 2017 court case.
                    – Allure
                    7 hours ago










                  • Also the ECJ rules for the entire EU, so it's more than just one country.
                    – Allure
                    7 hours ago










                  • Yeah, so, your answer there has sources which regard offering streaming services/products of unlicensed films for profit, which is what the ECJ ruled on. They're basically relevant to the question of making copies of academic materials for purposes of research or study.
                    – einpoklum
                    7 hours ago




















                  • "Don't be so sure it's illegal." Pretty confident that worldwide things are inclining towards downloading ebooks without paying being illegal, see e.g. academia.stackexchange.com/questions/86414/…?, which doesn't deal with this exact question but is quite close.
                    – Allure
                    8 hours ago








                  • 1




                    @Allure: Even the top answer to the question you linked to says "There does not seem to be one court case where one was prosecuted for just downloading such material.", and that some legal scholars (and zero court decision) consider it as "probably illegal (as opposed to: "illegal"). And that's in a country of your choice.
                    – einpoklum
                    7 hours ago












                  • That answer is outdated, obviously. It was written in Mach 2017. See my answer, which quoted an April 2017 court case.
                    – Allure
                    7 hours ago










                  • Also the ECJ rules for the entire EU, so it's more than just one country.
                    – Allure
                    7 hours ago










                  • Yeah, so, your answer there has sources which regard offering streaming services/products of unlicensed films for profit, which is what the ECJ ruled on. They're basically relevant to the question of making copies of academic materials for purposes of research or study.
                    – einpoklum
                    7 hours ago


















                  "Don't be so sure it's illegal." Pretty confident that worldwide things are inclining towards downloading ebooks without paying being illegal, see e.g. academia.stackexchange.com/questions/86414/…?, which doesn't deal with this exact question but is quite close.
                  – Allure
                  8 hours ago






                  "Don't be so sure it's illegal." Pretty confident that worldwide things are inclining towards downloading ebooks without paying being illegal, see e.g. academia.stackexchange.com/questions/86414/…?, which doesn't deal with this exact question but is quite close.
                  – Allure
                  8 hours ago






                  1




                  1




                  @Allure: Even the top answer to the question you linked to says "There does not seem to be one court case where one was prosecuted for just downloading such material.", and that some legal scholars (and zero court decision) consider it as "probably illegal (as opposed to: "illegal"). And that's in a country of your choice.
                  – einpoklum
                  7 hours ago






                  @Allure: Even the top answer to the question you linked to says "There does not seem to be one court case where one was prosecuted for just downloading such material.", and that some legal scholars (and zero court decision) consider it as "probably illegal (as opposed to: "illegal"). And that's in a country of your choice.
                  – einpoklum
                  7 hours ago














                  That answer is outdated, obviously. It was written in Mach 2017. See my answer, which quoted an April 2017 court case.
                  – Allure
                  7 hours ago




                  That answer is outdated, obviously. It was written in Mach 2017. See my answer, which quoted an April 2017 court case.
                  – Allure
                  7 hours ago












                  Also the ECJ rules for the entire EU, so it's more than just one country.
                  – Allure
                  7 hours ago




                  Also the ECJ rules for the entire EU, so it's more than just one country.
                  – Allure
                  7 hours ago












                  Yeah, so, your answer there has sources which regard offering streaming services/products of unlicensed films for profit, which is what the ECJ ruled on. They're basically relevant to the question of making copies of academic materials for purposes of research or study.
                  – einpoklum
                  7 hours ago






                  Yeah, so, your answer there has sources which regard offering streaming services/products of unlicensed films for profit, which is what the ECJ ruled on. They're basically relevant to the question of making copies of academic materials for purposes of research or study.
                  – einpoklum
                  7 hours ago












                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote













                  TL;DR:

                  Ask your librarian how to obtain mandatory textbooks, articles etc. You will be surprised what the can actually do for you.





                  I doubt you are obliged to buy the book but rather bring the book with you to the course. Am I nitpicking? Probably yes.



                  There is a significant difference. In the second, highly probable, case you can borrow the book in the university library for a whole semester, month, week, etc. Usually, textbooks are published within the university publisher and the library usually keeps enough copies to supply the students. Do go ask your librarian whether they possess the textbook needed and borrow it.



                  When you are there, do yourself a favour and ask for online access to scientific journals and publisher houses outside your university. As a student you should have some access to such resources as well - your university is paying A LOT for such access. In the end you can find you didn't pirate at all. You should find that - the school shall provide you anything mandatory to the whole study - books, hardware, software, and tools.



                  I have also heard many times "You should buy this textbook..." but it was in lectures the teacher expects we, students, will use the book not just in one semester and/or we will write notes in there. Many times they were right, sometimes they weren't.






                  share|improve this answer

























                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote













                    TL;DR:

                    Ask your librarian how to obtain mandatory textbooks, articles etc. You will be surprised what the can actually do for you.





                    I doubt you are obliged to buy the book but rather bring the book with you to the course. Am I nitpicking? Probably yes.



                    There is a significant difference. In the second, highly probable, case you can borrow the book in the university library for a whole semester, month, week, etc. Usually, textbooks are published within the university publisher and the library usually keeps enough copies to supply the students. Do go ask your librarian whether they possess the textbook needed and borrow it.



                    When you are there, do yourself a favour and ask for online access to scientific journals and publisher houses outside your university. As a student you should have some access to such resources as well - your university is paying A LOT for such access. In the end you can find you didn't pirate at all. You should find that - the school shall provide you anything mandatory to the whole study - books, hardware, software, and tools.



                    I have also heard many times "You should buy this textbook..." but it was in lectures the teacher expects we, students, will use the book not just in one semester and/or we will write notes in there. Many times they were right, sometimes they weren't.






                    share|improve this answer























                      up vote
                      2
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      2
                      down vote









                      TL;DR:

                      Ask your librarian how to obtain mandatory textbooks, articles etc. You will be surprised what the can actually do for you.





                      I doubt you are obliged to buy the book but rather bring the book with you to the course. Am I nitpicking? Probably yes.



                      There is a significant difference. In the second, highly probable, case you can borrow the book in the university library for a whole semester, month, week, etc. Usually, textbooks are published within the university publisher and the library usually keeps enough copies to supply the students. Do go ask your librarian whether they possess the textbook needed and borrow it.



                      When you are there, do yourself a favour and ask for online access to scientific journals and publisher houses outside your university. As a student you should have some access to such resources as well - your university is paying A LOT for such access. In the end you can find you didn't pirate at all. You should find that - the school shall provide you anything mandatory to the whole study - books, hardware, software, and tools.



                      I have also heard many times "You should buy this textbook..." but it was in lectures the teacher expects we, students, will use the book not just in one semester and/or we will write notes in there. Many times they were right, sometimes they weren't.






                      share|improve this answer












                      TL;DR:

                      Ask your librarian how to obtain mandatory textbooks, articles etc. You will be surprised what the can actually do for you.





                      I doubt you are obliged to buy the book but rather bring the book with you to the course. Am I nitpicking? Probably yes.



                      There is a significant difference. In the second, highly probable, case you can borrow the book in the university library for a whole semester, month, week, etc. Usually, textbooks are published within the university publisher and the library usually keeps enough copies to supply the students. Do go ask your librarian whether they possess the textbook needed and borrow it.



                      When you are there, do yourself a favour and ask for online access to scientific journals and publisher houses outside your university. As a student you should have some access to such resources as well - your university is paying A LOT for such access. In the end you can find you didn't pirate at all. You should find that - the school shall provide you anything mandatory to the whole study - books, hardware, software, and tools.



                      I have also heard many times "You should buy this textbook..." but it was in lectures the teacher expects we, students, will use the book not just in one semester and/or we will write notes in there. Many times they were right, sometimes they weren't.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 13 hours ago









                      Crowley

                      1,765515




                      1,765515






















                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          I think a reasonable answer would be to create an anonymous email account and ask those authors this question. That said, I wouldn't worry about any full (tenured) professors' going hungry, nor would I worry about the publishers, who have an obscene profit motive with hugely inflated costs (and a very wasteful business model). There is a reason why there is huge consolidation in publishing: it is a capital intensive, highly profitable business. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and a desire to make a contribution, then find some way of puting that money toward the book purchases of someone less able to afford them.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          jeffmcneill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.














                          • 13




                            The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
                            – Pere
                            yesterday















                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          I think a reasonable answer would be to create an anonymous email account and ask those authors this question. That said, I wouldn't worry about any full (tenured) professors' going hungry, nor would I worry about the publishers, who have an obscene profit motive with hugely inflated costs (and a very wasteful business model). There is a reason why there is huge consolidation in publishing: it is a capital intensive, highly profitable business. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and a desire to make a contribution, then find some way of puting that money toward the book purchases of someone less able to afford them.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          jeffmcneill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.














                          • 13




                            The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
                            – Pere
                            yesterday













                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote










                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote









                          I think a reasonable answer would be to create an anonymous email account and ask those authors this question. That said, I wouldn't worry about any full (tenured) professors' going hungry, nor would I worry about the publishers, who have an obscene profit motive with hugely inflated costs (and a very wasteful business model). There is a reason why there is huge consolidation in publishing: it is a capital intensive, highly profitable business. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and a desire to make a contribution, then find some way of puting that money toward the book purchases of someone less able to afford them.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          jeffmcneill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          I think a reasonable answer would be to create an anonymous email account and ask those authors this question. That said, I wouldn't worry about any full (tenured) professors' going hungry, nor would I worry about the publishers, who have an obscene profit motive with hugely inflated costs (and a very wasteful business model). There is a reason why there is huge consolidation in publishing: it is a capital intensive, highly profitable business. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and a desire to make a contribution, then find some way of puting that money toward the book purchases of someone less able to afford them.







                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          jeffmcneill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer






                          New contributor




                          jeffmcneill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          answered yesterday









                          jeffmcneill

                          1273




                          1273




                          New contributor




                          jeffmcneill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





                          New contributor





                          jeffmcneill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                          jeffmcneill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.








                          • 13




                            The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
                            – Pere
                            yesterday














                          • 13




                            The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
                            – Pere
                            yesterday








                          13




                          13




                          The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
                          – Pere
                          yesterday




                          The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
                          – Pere
                          yesterday










                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          There is a financial aspect you should also consider: these professors will receive unexpected money they need to somehow




                          • declare or not

                          • explain the provenance of, if someone (tax office, financial fraud groups, etc.) asks them


                          Both cases are probably over the top for 10 USD (and you will likely be only one to send them the money) but can be stressful to them.



                          Send the money to a charity instead.






                          share|improve this answer

























                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote













                            There is a financial aspect you should also consider: these professors will receive unexpected money they need to somehow




                            • declare or not

                            • explain the provenance of, if someone (tax office, financial fraud groups, etc.) asks them


                            Both cases are probably over the top for 10 USD (and you will likely be only one to send them the money) but can be stressful to them.



                            Send the money to a charity instead.






                            share|improve this answer























                              up vote
                              1
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              1
                              down vote









                              There is a financial aspect you should also consider: these professors will receive unexpected money they need to somehow




                              • declare or not

                              • explain the provenance of, if someone (tax office, financial fraud groups, etc.) asks them


                              Both cases are probably over the top for 10 USD (and you will likely be only one to send them the money) but can be stressful to them.



                              Send the money to a charity instead.






                              share|improve this answer












                              There is a financial aspect you should also consider: these professors will receive unexpected money they need to somehow




                              • declare or not

                              • explain the provenance of, if someone (tax office, financial fraud groups, etc.) asks them


                              Both cases are probably over the top for 10 USD (and you will likely be only one to send them the money) but can be stressful to them.



                              Send the money to a charity instead.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 14 hours ago









                              WoJ

                              2,493714




                              2,493714






















                                  up vote
                                  1
                                  down vote













                                  Why don't you just send it as an anonymous gift / donation? Maybe write a small note thanking for authors' work in general. You don't need to mention specifics.



                                  This is what many people do for creative folks who's works they enjoy. Like comics authors, painters, musicians, youtubers, writers. I don't see why it would be wrong to want to support a professor in a similar way.






                                  share|improve this answer

























                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote













                                    Why don't you just send it as an anonymous gift / donation? Maybe write a small note thanking for authors' work in general. You don't need to mention specifics.



                                    This is what many people do for creative folks who's works they enjoy. Like comics authors, painters, musicians, youtubers, writers. I don't see why it would be wrong to want to support a professor in a similar way.






                                    share|improve this answer























                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote









                                      Why don't you just send it as an anonymous gift / donation? Maybe write a small note thanking for authors' work in general. You don't need to mention specifics.



                                      This is what many people do for creative folks who's works they enjoy. Like comics authors, painters, musicians, youtubers, writers. I don't see why it would be wrong to want to support a professor in a similar way.






                                      share|improve this answer












                                      Why don't you just send it as an anonymous gift / donation? Maybe write a small note thanking for authors' work in general. You don't need to mention specifics.



                                      This is what many people do for creative folks who's works they enjoy. Like comics authors, painters, musicians, youtubers, writers. I don't see why it would be wrong to want to support a professor in a similar way.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 13 hours ago









                                      mathreadler

                                      91059




                                      91059

















                                          protected by Massimo Ortolano yesterday



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