Solving Cubic Equations with Lagrange Resolvent?












4












$begingroup$


I'm having difficulties understanding my textbook's decription of solving cubic equations using Lagrange Resolvents and symmetric polynomials.



Here's what I understand:
$$ x^3 + px - q = (x-r)(x-s)(x-t)$$
We can also write:
$$lambda = r+ws+w^2t$$
$$mu =wr+s+w^2t$$
where $1, w, w^2$ are the cubic roots of 1. I then understand that $lambda^2 + mu^3$ and $lambda^3mu^3$ are symmetric polynomials in r, s, and t. It is also solvable that the elemntary symmetric functions in r, s, t are $0, p, q$ where
$$r+s+t=0$$ $$rs+rt+st=p$$ $$rst=q$$
The part where I get confused is that the book claims that $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ are the roots of the quadratic polynomial $q(x)=x^2-(lambda^3+mu^3)x+lambda^3mu^3$, which seems obvious to me. Then they claim you can use the quadratic formula to solve for $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ in terms of $p$ and $q$, thus allowing you to solve a system of equations to acquire $r,s,t$.



How can you use the quadratic formula to "explicitly solve for $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ in terms of $p$ and $q$"?










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  • $begingroup$
    I think when you say "I then understand that λ^2+μ^3...," you mean "I then understand that λ^3+μ^3..." I put this in as an edit that seems to have been deleted, I am sorry if I violated protocol. Someone else had previously edited to fix a typo (s/he said), which is why I went ahead. I have no idea what that typo was...
    $endgroup$
    – Nat Kuhn
    Dec 11 '18 at 2:54
















4












$begingroup$


I'm having difficulties understanding my textbook's decription of solving cubic equations using Lagrange Resolvents and symmetric polynomials.



Here's what I understand:
$$ x^3 + px - q = (x-r)(x-s)(x-t)$$
We can also write:
$$lambda = r+ws+w^2t$$
$$mu =wr+s+w^2t$$
where $1, w, w^2$ are the cubic roots of 1. I then understand that $lambda^2 + mu^3$ and $lambda^3mu^3$ are symmetric polynomials in r, s, and t. It is also solvable that the elemntary symmetric functions in r, s, t are $0, p, q$ where
$$r+s+t=0$$ $$rs+rt+st=p$$ $$rst=q$$
The part where I get confused is that the book claims that $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ are the roots of the quadratic polynomial $q(x)=x^2-(lambda^3+mu^3)x+lambda^3mu^3$, which seems obvious to me. Then they claim you can use the quadratic formula to solve for $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ in terms of $p$ and $q$, thus allowing you to solve a system of equations to acquire $r,s,t$.



How can you use the quadratic formula to "explicitly solve for $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ in terms of $p$ and $q$"?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I think when you say "I then understand that λ^2+μ^3...," you mean "I then understand that λ^3+μ^3..." I put this in as an edit that seems to have been deleted, I am sorry if I violated protocol. Someone else had previously edited to fix a typo (s/he said), which is why I went ahead. I have no idea what that typo was...
    $endgroup$
    – Nat Kuhn
    Dec 11 '18 at 2:54














4












4








4





$begingroup$


I'm having difficulties understanding my textbook's decription of solving cubic equations using Lagrange Resolvents and symmetric polynomials.



Here's what I understand:
$$ x^3 + px - q = (x-r)(x-s)(x-t)$$
We can also write:
$$lambda = r+ws+w^2t$$
$$mu =wr+s+w^2t$$
where $1, w, w^2$ are the cubic roots of 1. I then understand that $lambda^2 + mu^3$ and $lambda^3mu^3$ are symmetric polynomials in r, s, and t. It is also solvable that the elemntary symmetric functions in r, s, t are $0, p, q$ where
$$r+s+t=0$$ $$rs+rt+st=p$$ $$rst=q$$
The part where I get confused is that the book claims that $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ are the roots of the quadratic polynomial $q(x)=x^2-(lambda^3+mu^3)x+lambda^3mu^3$, which seems obvious to me. Then they claim you can use the quadratic formula to solve for $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ in terms of $p$ and $q$, thus allowing you to solve a system of equations to acquire $r,s,t$.



How can you use the quadratic formula to "explicitly solve for $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ in terms of $p$ and $q$"?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I'm having difficulties understanding my textbook's decription of solving cubic equations using Lagrange Resolvents and symmetric polynomials.



Here's what I understand:
$$ x^3 + px - q = (x-r)(x-s)(x-t)$$
We can also write:
$$lambda = r+ws+w^2t$$
$$mu =wr+s+w^2t$$
where $1, w, w^2$ are the cubic roots of 1. I then understand that $lambda^2 + mu^3$ and $lambda^3mu^3$ are symmetric polynomials in r, s, and t. It is also solvable that the elemntary symmetric functions in r, s, t are $0, p, q$ where
$$r+s+t=0$$ $$rs+rt+st=p$$ $$rst=q$$
The part where I get confused is that the book claims that $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ are the roots of the quadratic polynomial $q(x)=x^2-(lambda^3+mu^3)x+lambda^3mu^3$, which seems obvious to me. Then they claim you can use the quadratic formula to solve for $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ in terms of $p$ and $q$, thus allowing you to solve a system of equations to acquire $r,s,t$.



How can you use the quadratic formula to "explicitly solve for $lambda^3$ and $mu^3$ in terms of $p$ and $q$"?







abstract-algebra






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edited Dec 11 '18 at 2:12









amWhy

1




1










asked Nov 16 '16 at 1:24









econra2017econra2017

211




211












  • $begingroup$
    I think when you say "I then understand that λ^2+μ^3...," you mean "I then understand that λ^3+μ^3..." I put this in as an edit that seems to have been deleted, I am sorry if I violated protocol. Someone else had previously edited to fix a typo (s/he said), which is why I went ahead. I have no idea what that typo was...
    $endgroup$
    – Nat Kuhn
    Dec 11 '18 at 2:54


















  • $begingroup$
    I think when you say "I then understand that λ^2+μ^3...," you mean "I then understand that λ^3+μ^3..." I put this in as an edit that seems to have been deleted, I am sorry if I violated protocol. Someone else had previously edited to fix a typo (s/he said), which is why I went ahead. I have no idea what that typo was...
    $endgroup$
    – Nat Kuhn
    Dec 11 '18 at 2:54
















$begingroup$
I think when you say "I then understand that λ^2+μ^3...," you mean "I then understand that λ^3+μ^3..." I put this in as an edit that seems to have been deleted, I am sorry if I violated protocol. Someone else had previously edited to fix a typo (s/he said), which is why I went ahead. I have no idea what that typo was...
$endgroup$
– Nat Kuhn
Dec 11 '18 at 2:54




$begingroup$
I think when you say "I then understand that λ^2+μ^3...," you mean "I then understand that λ^3+μ^3..." I put this in as an edit that seems to have been deleted, I am sorry if I violated protocol. Someone else had previously edited to fix a typo (s/he said), which is why I went ahead. I have no idea what that typo was...
$endgroup$
– Nat Kuhn
Dec 11 '18 at 2:54










3 Answers
3






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oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

A symmetric polynomial in $r$, $s$, and $t$ will be a polynomial in the elementary symmetric functions $0$, $p$, and $q$, i.e. a polynomial in p and q. You need to to know those polynomials explicitly to solve the quadratic equation explicitly. This involves getting your hands dirty.



You can see this worked out carefully in this paper by Svante Janson (pp. 1-6). What he calls $u$ and $v$ are, up to scalar factors, what you call $lambda$ and $mu$. In his notation, $u+v$ is one of the roots of your polynomial, $uv=-p/3$ (so $u^3v^3=-p^3/27$), and $u^3+v^3$ is the product of the roots, i.e. $-q$. This will give you your explicit quadratic polynomial with roots $u^3$ and $v^3$. Janson takes a slightly different approach, showing that $u^3-v^3=sqrt{-Delta/27}$ where the discriminant $Delta=-4p^3-27q^2$. You can get $u^3$ and $v^3$ directly from those two equations.



To convert the notation, I believe that $v=lambda/3$ and $u=w^2mu/3$ if you take $r=beta_1$,$s=beta_2$,and $t=beta_3$.



A good historical reference is Chapter 6 or William Dunham's "Journey through Genius," which covers the discovery of "Cardano's formula," which is what this is... without the Galois theory, because, well he did it about 250 years before Galois. It was one of the first significant results in mathematics that went beyond the legacy of the Greeks.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Oops, I had a mistake in the original answer, I have fixed it.
    $endgroup$
    – Nat Kuhn
    Dec 12 '18 at 1:02



















0












$begingroup$

Viete's theorem provides the answer to your question.



This theorem inverts the idea of solving the quadratic equation (and all higher power polynomial equations) for the roots in terms of the coefficients. Instead, we use the roots of the quadratic equation to find coefficients for an equation that would have these roots. Easy way to see this is to multiply $(x - r_1)(x - r_2)$ so you get a monic quadratic $ax^2+bx+c = 0$ where the coefficients are $a= 1, b= -(r_1+r_2)$ and $c= r_1 r_2$. ($r_1$ is the first root and $r_2$ is the second root of the quadratic equation).



Now imagine $r_1 = lambda^3$ and $r_2 = mu^3$. Then your quadratic equation is $$x^2 - (lambda^3 + mu^3)x + lambda^3mu^3 = 0.$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    -1












    $begingroup$

    I use this formula all the time. If you have found the roots of the resolvent quadratic. Then all you have to do is find the cube roots of x1^3 and x2^3. Your answer should be $(-a+x1^(1/3)+x2^(1/3))/3.$ The other two roots are $(-a+w*x1^(1/3)+w^2*x2^(1/3))/3$ and $(-a+w^2*x1^(1/3)+w*x2^(1/3))/3.$ Where w=(-1+sqrt(-3))/2 and w^2=(-1-sqrt(-3))/2.






    share|cite|improve this answer











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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      1












      $begingroup$

      A symmetric polynomial in $r$, $s$, and $t$ will be a polynomial in the elementary symmetric functions $0$, $p$, and $q$, i.e. a polynomial in p and q. You need to to know those polynomials explicitly to solve the quadratic equation explicitly. This involves getting your hands dirty.



      You can see this worked out carefully in this paper by Svante Janson (pp. 1-6). What he calls $u$ and $v$ are, up to scalar factors, what you call $lambda$ and $mu$. In his notation, $u+v$ is one of the roots of your polynomial, $uv=-p/3$ (so $u^3v^3=-p^3/27$), and $u^3+v^3$ is the product of the roots, i.e. $-q$. This will give you your explicit quadratic polynomial with roots $u^3$ and $v^3$. Janson takes a slightly different approach, showing that $u^3-v^3=sqrt{-Delta/27}$ where the discriminant $Delta=-4p^3-27q^2$. You can get $u^3$ and $v^3$ directly from those two equations.



      To convert the notation, I believe that $v=lambda/3$ and $u=w^2mu/3$ if you take $r=beta_1$,$s=beta_2$,and $t=beta_3$.



      A good historical reference is Chapter 6 or William Dunham's "Journey through Genius," which covers the discovery of "Cardano's formula," which is what this is... without the Galois theory, because, well he did it about 250 years before Galois. It was one of the first significant results in mathematics that went beyond the legacy of the Greeks.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        Oops, I had a mistake in the original answer, I have fixed it.
        $endgroup$
        – Nat Kuhn
        Dec 12 '18 at 1:02
















      1












      $begingroup$

      A symmetric polynomial in $r$, $s$, and $t$ will be a polynomial in the elementary symmetric functions $0$, $p$, and $q$, i.e. a polynomial in p and q. You need to to know those polynomials explicitly to solve the quadratic equation explicitly. This involves getting your hands dirty.



      You can see this worked out carefully in this paper by Svante Janson (pp. 1-6). What he calls $u$ and $v$ are, up to scalar factors, what you call $lambda$ and $mu$. In his notation, $u+v$ is one of the roots of your polynomial, $uv=-p/3$ (so $u^3v^3=-p^3/27$), and $u^3+v^3$ is the product of the roots, i.e. $-q$. This will give you your explicit quadratic polynomial with roots $u^3$ and $v^3$. Janson takes a slightly different approach, showing that $u^3-v^3=sqrt{-Delta/27}$ where the discriminant $Delta=-4p^3-27q^2$. You can get $u^3$ and $v^3$ directly from those two equations.



      To convert the notation, I believe that $v=lambda/3$ and $u=w^2mu/3$ if you take $r=beta_1$,$s=beta_2$,and $t=beta_3$.



      A good historical reference is Chapter 6 or William Dunham's "Journey through Genius," which covers the discovery of "Cardano's formula," which is what this is... without the Galois theory, because, well he did it about 250 years before Galois. It was one of the first significant results in mathematics that went beyond the legacy of the Greeks.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        Oops, I had a mistake in the original answer, I have fixed it.
        $endgroup$
        – Nat Kuhn
        Dec 12 '18 at 1:02














      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$

      A symmetric polynomial in $r$, $s$, and $t$ will be a polynomial in the elementary symmetric functions $0$, $p$, and $q$, i.e. a polynomial in p and q. You need to to know those polynomials explicitly to solve the quadratic equation explicitly. This involves getting your hands dirty.



      You can see this worked out carefully in this paper by Svante Janson (pp. 1-6). What he calls $u$ and $v$ are, up to scalar factors, what you call $lambda$ and $mu$. In his notation, $u+v$ is one of the roots of your polynomial, $uv=-p/3$ (so $u^3v^3=-p^3/27$), and $u^3+v^3$ is the product of the roots, i.e. $-q$. This will give you your explicit quadratic polynomial with roots $u^3$ and $v^3$. Janson takes a slightly different approach, showing that $u^3-v^3=sqrt{-Delta/27}$ where the discriminant $Delta=-4p^3-27q^2$. You can get $u^3$ and $v^3$ directly from those two equations.



      To convert the notation, I believe that $v=lambda/3$ and $u=w^2mu/3$ if you take $r=beta_1$,$s=beta_2$,and $t=beta_3$.



      A good historical reference is Chapter 6 or William Dunham's "Journey through Genius," which covers the discovery of "Cardano's formula," which is what this is... without the Galois theory, because, well he did it about 250 years before Galois. It was one of the first significant results in mathematics that went beyond the legacy of the Greeks.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      A symmetric polynomial in $r$, $s$, and $t$ will be a polynomial in the elementary symmetric functions $0$, $p$, and $q$, i.e. a polynomial in p and q. You need to to know those polynomials explicitly to solve the quadratic equation explicitly. This involves getting your hands dirty.



      You can see this worked out carefully in this paper by Svante Janson (pp. 1-6). What he calls $u$ and $v$ are, up to scalar factors, what you call $lambda$ and $mu$. In his notation, $u+v$ is one of the roots of your polynomial, $uv=-p/3$ (so $u^3v^3=-p^3/27$), and $u^3+v^3$ is the product of the roots, i.e. $-q$. This will give you your explicit quadratic polynomial with roots $u^3$ and $v^3$. Janson takes a slightly different approach, showing that $u^3-v^3=sqrt{-Delta/27}$ where the discriminant $Delta=-4p^3-27q^2$. You can get $u^3$ and $v^3$ directly from those two equations.



      To convert the notation, I believe that $v=lambda/3$ and $u=w^2mu/3$ if you take $r=beta_1$,$s=beta_2$,and $t=beta_3$.



      A good historical reference is Chapter 6 or William Dunham's "Journey through Genius," which covers the discovery of "Cardano's formula," which is what this is... without the Galois theory, because, well he did it about 250 years before Galois. It was one of the first significant results in mathematics that went beyond the legacy of the Greeks.







      share|cite|improve this answer














      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited Dec 12 '18 at 1:01

























      answered Dec 11 '18 at 2:51









      Nat KuhnNat Kuhn

      1515




      1515












      • $begingroup$
        Oops, I had a mistake in the original answer, I have fixed it.
        $endgroup$
        – Nat Kuhn
        Dec 12 '18 at 1:02


















      • $begingroup$
        Oops, I had a mistake in the original answer, I have fixed it.
        $endgroup$
        – Nat Kuhn
        Dec 12 '18 at 1:02
















      $begingroup$
      Oops, I had a mistake in the original answer, I have fixed it.
      $endgroup$
      – Nat Kuhn
      Dec 12 '18 at 1:02




      $begingroup$
      Oops, I had a mistake in the original answer, I have fixed it.
      $endgroup$
      – Nat Kuhn
      Dec 12 '18 at 1:02











      0












      $begingroup$

      Viete's theorem provides the answer to your question.



      This theorem inverts the idea of solving the quadratic equation (and all higher power polynomial equations) for the roots in terms of the coefficients. Instead, we use the roots of the quadratic equation to find coefficients for an equation that would have these roots. Easy way to see this is to multiply $(x - r_1)(x - r_2)$ so you get a monic quadratic $ax^2+bx+c = 0$ where the coefficients are $a= 1, b= -(r_1+r_2)$ and $c= r_1 r_2$. ($r_1$ is the first root and $r_2$ is the second root of the quadratic equation).



      Now imagine $r_1 = lambda^3$ and $r_2 = mu^3$. Then your quadratic equation is $$x^2 - (lambda^3 + mu^3)x + lambda^3mu^3 = 0.$$






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$


















        0












        $begingroup$

        Viete's theorem provides the answer to your question.



        This theorem inverts the idea of solving the quadratic equation (and all higher power polynomial equations) for the roots in terms of the coefficients. Instead, we use the roots of the quadratic equation to find coefficients for an equation that would have these roots. Easy way to see this is to multiply $(x - r_1)(x - r_2)$ so you get a monic quadratic $ax^2+bx+c = 0$ where the coefficients are $a= 1, b= -(r_1+r_2)$ and $c= r_1 r_2$. ($r_1$ is the first root and $r_2$ is the second root of the quadratic equation).



        Now imagine $r_1 = lambda^3$ and $r_2 = mu^3$. Then your quadratic equation is $$x^2 - (lambda^3 + mu^3)x + lambda^3mu^3 = 0.$$






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$
















          0












          0








          0





          $begingroup$

          Viete's theorem provides the answer to your question.



          This theorem inverts the idea of solving the quadratic equation (and all higher power polynomial equations) for the roots in terms of the coefficients. Instead, we use the roots of the quadratic equation to find coefficients for an equation that would have these roots. Easy way to see this is to multiply $(x - r_1)(x - r_2)$ so you get a monic quadratic $ax^2+bx+c = 0$ where the coefficients are $a= 1, b= -(r_1+r_2)$ and $c= r_1 r_2$. ($r_1$ is the first root and $r_2$ is the second root of the quadratic equation).



          Now imagine $r_1 = lambda^3$ and $r_2 = mu^3$. Then your quadratic equation is $$x^2 - (lambda^3 + mu^3)x + lambda^3mu^3 = 0.$$






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Viete's theorem provides the answer to your question.



          This theorem inverts the idea of solving the quadratic equation (and all higher power polynomial equations) for the roots in terms of the coefficients. Instead, we use the roots of the quadratic equation to find coefficients for an equation that would have these roots. Easy way to see this is to multiply $(x - r_1)(x - r_2)$ so you get a monic quadratic $ax^2+bx+c = 0$ where the coefficients are $a= 1, b= -(r_1+r_2)$ and $c= r_1 r_2$. ($r_1$ is the first root and $r_2$ is the second root of the quadratic equation).



          Now imagine $r_1 = lambda^3$ and $r_2 = mu^3$. Then your quadratic equation is $$x^2 - (lambda^3 + mu^3)x + lambda^3mu^3 = 0.$$







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Jul 23 '17 at 22:50









          Siong Thye Goh

          101k1466118




          101k1466118










          answered Jul 23 '17 at 22:18









          Gary BillerbeckGary Billerbeck

          1




          1























              -1












              $begingroup$

              I use this formula all the time. If you have found the roots of the resolvent quadratic. Then all you have to do is find the cube roots of x1^3 and x2^3. Your answer should be $(-a+x1^(1/3)+x2^(1/3))/3.$ The other two roots are $(-a+w*x1^(1/3)+w^2*x2^(1/3))/3$ and $(-a+w^2*x1^(1/3)+w*x2^(1/3))/3.$ Where w=(-1+sqrt(-3))/2 and w^2=(-1-sqrt(-3))/2.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                -1












                $begingroup$

                I use this formula all the time. If you have found the roots of the resolvent quadratic. Then all you have to do is find the cube roots of x1^3 and x2^3. Your answer should be $(-a+x1^(1/3)+x2^(1/3))/3.$ The other two roots are $(-a+w*x1^(1/3)+w^2*x2^(1/3))/3$ and $(-a+w^2*x1^(1/3)+w*x2^(1/3))/3.$ Where w=(-1+sqrt(-3))/2 and w^2=(-1-sqrt(-3))/2.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  -1












                  -1








                  -1





                  $begingroup$

                  I use this formula all the time. If you have found the roots of the resolvent quadratic. Then all you have to do is find the cube roots of x1^3 and x2^3. Your answer should be $(-a+x1^(1/3)+x2^(1/3))/3.$ The other two roots are $(-a+w*x1^(1/3)+w^2*x2^(1/3))/3$ and $(-a+w^2*x1^(1/3)+w*x2^(1/3))/3.$ Where w=(-1+sqrt(-3))/2 and w^2=(-1-sqrt(-3))/2.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  I use this formula all the time. If you have found the roots of the resolvent quadratic. Then all you have to do is find the cube roots of x1^3 and x2^3. Your answer should be $(-a+x1^(1/3)+x2^(1/3))/3.$ The other two roots are $(-a+w*x1^(1/3)+w^2*x2^(1/3))/3$ and $(-a+w^2*x1^(1/3)+w*x2^(1/3))/3.$ Where w=(-1+sqrt(-3))/2 and w^2=(-1-sqrt(-3))/2.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Sep 22 '18 at 16:26









                  amWhy

                  1




                  1










                  answered Sep 22 '18 at 16:08









                  Jim CurrieJim Currie

                  11




                  11






























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